For profit prisons -

[autisticdragonkin]

What do other kiwis think about for profit prisons?

Personally I think that in theory they could work if there were very rigorous standards for them and they were unable to lobby but because that isn't the case I oppose them.

 

[AnOminous]

What do other kiwis think about for profit prisons?

Personally I think that in theory they could work if there were very rigorous standards for them and they were unable to lobby but because that isn't the case I oppose them.

They can't for that reason, because they funnel the enormous amounts of (taxpayer) money they get right into campaign donations, usually to every politician they can find, Democratic or Republican, in return for increasing their funding even more. Also, the government agencies that regulate them are usually populated by people who used to lobby for them. The policy outcome is shit.

This is called an "iron triangle," when legislators, regulators, and the industry get together to control policy for their personal benefit.

 

[IwegalBadnik]

For profit prisons have a conflict of interest as far as justice goes. Their paycheck depends on those cells being as full as they can make them.

Whether the people in those cells are guilty or not is of little relevance to them.

 

[Marvin]

For profit prisons have a conflict of interest as far as justice goes. Their paycheck depends on those cells being as full as they can make them.

Whether the people in those cells are guilty or not is of little relevance to them.

Ultimately that's the nature of any business the government contracts out.

 

[Tony Fuckin Abbott]

Don't they press license plates and shit in american prisons? Simple production lines would make sense, make them do the jobs no sane man would take.

Edit: or is a "for profit prison" some privately held thing I've never heard about?

 

[Marvin]

Don't they press license plates and shit in american prisons? Simple production lines would make sense, make them do the jobs no sane man would take.

Edit: or is a "for profit prison" some privately held thing I've never heard about?

Sometimes governments contract private companies to run prisons.

 

[Tony Fuckin Abbott]

Sometimes governments contract private companies to run prisons.

America is almost comical sometimes, I love it

 

[Pikimon]

America is almost comical sometimes, I love it

It's not that funny when you realize the United States incarcerates more people than loving and caring Saudi Arabia and China

 

[Ruin]

It's not that funny when you realize the United States incarcerates more people than loving and caring Saudi Arabia and China

To be fair that's because China and Saudi Arabia execute most of their prisoners.

 

[Phil Ken Sebben]

What do other kiwis think about for profit prisons?

Personally I think that in theory they could work if there were very rigorous standards for them and they were unable to lobby but because that isn't the case I oppose them.

In theory communism works but I don't know anybody who's willing to say that it should be the economic system of choice.

In reality a for profit prison doesn't work as intended in part due to the profit bit. A private company who wants to keep prisoners will hold onto them because they want the revenue from them. A for profit prison can and will bribe judges to send them minor crimes because they're getting paid for it. A for profit prison can and will undercut anybody they can because they can. Pay an inmate $20 a day to do telemarketing while the telemarketers are paying their employees $8.00 an hour. Who's going to win when they can deliver a product for less?

These things need oversight. And we need to get folk that were caught with possession of a small amount of marijuana out of there because they really don't belong behind bars.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

I think that for profit prisons could work if they had no lobbying powers and the government and the prisons would get fined for recidivism

 

[Derbydollar]

For profit prisons are a smear on justice and should be done away with as soon as possible.

 

[Marvin]

A private company who wants to keep prisoners will hold onto them because they want the revenue from them.

Once their sentence's up, their sentence's up. Anything that actually needs to be handled by the justice system, should be handled by the justice system. But I don't see how that precludes the actual operation of prisons to necessarily be done by the government.

A for profit prison can and will bribe judges to send them minor crimes because they're getting paid for it.

How's this more likely than other forms of bribery?

 

[Phil Ken Sebben]

Once their sentence's up, their sentence's up. Anything that actually needs to be handled by the justice system, should be handled by the justice system. But I don't see how that precludes the actual operation of prisons to necessarily be done by the government.

How's this more likely than other forms of bribery?

You're ignoring the problem in search of the bigger picture when there isn't one. For profit prisons only profit the corporation that owns them. They have no desire to rehabilitate the prisoner after all, a rehabilitated prisoner is of no use to them. They want them to commit more crimes so they'll come back and the prison will get more money. So what do they do? They cut costs at every opportunity. Guards aren't well trained or paid. Chronic understaffing. Medical neglect. And the list goes on. Prisoners are treated like products to be used for whatever the prison wants them to. While I don't feel that a prison should be a vacation and they need to expect a certain amount of privation, that doesn't mean the prison doesn't have to treat them like human beings. We have laws in this country to protect our citizens and this includes those that are in jail.

There are hundreds of lawsuits against the individual corporations that run for profit prisons dealing with abuse, unlawful death, excessive force & medical neglect. One inmate was in solitary for eight months and pleaded with the staff for a dentist due to his teeth. It got so bad that he knocked them out himself by either punching himself in the face or prying them out with whatever he could find. He got $60K, a transfer to another prison and a set of false teeth because of it. All they had to do was send a dentist to either fix them or pull them but in the search for greatest profits wouldn't do it. In the end they wind up paying out more than it would have cost them otherwise so do you think they're going to just accept that loss and move on? No, they're for profit. They'll simply cut more corners.

I get trying to make money or to offset some of the costs but for profit prisons aren't the answer.

 

[Ravenor]

Ultimately that's the nature of any business the government contracts out.

This in the UK prisons are now run by a very small group of 3rd party contractors and the quality of the prisons has gone down drastically.

It's not that funny when you realize the United States incarcerates more people than loving and caring Saudi Arabia and China

Yep last time I heard something like 10 - 20 % of the worlds prison population is in America, it's also a bit ironic that inthe US you can't import anything made via slave labour (i.e. flip flops made in Indian sweat shops) but in the USA you can work for pennies a hour in prison and it's perfectly legal.

How's this more likely than other forms of bribery?

Lack of Juridical oversight, Judges for all there suposed impartiality are quite the incestuious bunch, they don't like snitching on others and loath there own business getting poked into an police forces are not to happy about investigating a judge that they might need a favor from down the road.

In my mind Prisons, Helathcare, National Defence, Civil Defence and Infrastructure (roads, rail, air trafic control) should be managed and owned by the state, staffed by the state. There is no justifiable way for essential opperations of the state should be passed to for profit companies.

 

[Ruin]

There's nothing to debate really. Even Hitler managed to unify Germany amidst an economic depression. By contrast there has never been a positive societal development contributed by the for profit prison industry.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

There's nothing to debate really. Even Hitler managed to unify Germany amidst an economic depression. By contrast there has never been a positive societal development contributed by the for profit prison industry.

But there could be if there was more regulation because it would give people a real incentive to reduce crime if all prisons were for profit and fined for recidivism more than their profit

 

[Ruin]

But there could be if there was more regulation because it would give people a real incentive to reduce crime if all prisons were for profit and fined for recidivism more than their profit

You do realize lack of oversight is why for profit prisons are attractive in the first place right? They fight tooth and nail to avoid regulation. The people who run these places couldn't give a flying fuck about criminals or their victims.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

You do realize lack of oversight is why for profit prisons are attractive in the first place right? They fight tooth and nail to avoid regulation. The people who run these places couldn't give a flying fuck about criminals or their victims.

That is the problem with the government. Government could use for profit prisons for good if they set them up differently

But I agree that they are not to be preserved in their current state

 

[Ruin]

That is the problem with the government. Government could use for profit prisons for good if they set them up differently

But I agree that they are not to be preserved in their current state

Are you trolling? For profit prisons jave nothing to do with the government.