Game of Thrones Thread -

Mola Ram

Self Righteous Ego Bastard Asshole
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If you go through the episodes D&D built up Daenarys into a vague Heroine/Redeemer archetype, starting with the birth of dragons/fire (S01E10). Jorah is astonished and in that instance, a true believer. In S05E09 you see the same look on Tyrion as Drogon lands in the fighting pit and Daenarys rides away, a look of shock and utter understanding at that moment that she's a Targaryen with a destiny. In S06EP04 when she exits the burning Dothraki hut after killing the khals all the Dothraki, Jorah and Dario Naharis bow to her as she exits, naked and unburnt. Dario also has the same amazed and enthralled look Jorah and Tyrion had earlier. In S06EP6 there's a similar scene as she addresses the Dothraki astride Drogon.
One of the worst things about the abysmal failure of setting up Daenerys's evil turn is that, retroactively, every single character who believed in her, fought for her, idealized her, worshipped her, is now a total fucking idiot.

Daario Naharis? A cuntstruck idiot. Jorah Mormont? A cuntstruck idiot whose redemption arc is arguably even more trashed than Jaime Lannister's, since he devoted his life to the Westerosi Hitler. Missandei? A misled airhead with zero judgement of character. Barristan Selmy? A washed up old fool who died fighting for someone who wound up making Joffrey look like Captain Kangaroo. Grey Worm and by extension all the Unsullied? Totally mindless killing machines perfectly happy to slaughter innocents and follow Smokey the Bear's worst nightmare despite having been elevated from the cruelest slavery depicted on the show. Tyrion Lannister? An egotistical dimwit who apparently suffered severe brain damage while cooped up in that box across the sea, because he has not made one good decision since he hooked up with Burn Them All, Jr. Only Varys comes out of it looking all right, and let's be honest -- Varys only turned on her because someone had to, or else this twist really would have come out of nowhere. Never mind his mistrust of Danerys is completely at odds with the faith he's demonstrated in her since as far back as Stannis's siege of King's Landing.

I'll give you the Dothraki, since they were always a Frightening Brown Rape Cavalry.

I liked some of these characters, was meh on some of them, and absolutely adored a few, and because of the events of the last couple of hours, I will never again be able to see them as anything more than monstrous fools who enabled utterly pointless mass murder. Hell of a legacy for the biggest fantasy series since Lord of the Rings.
 

Feline Supremacist

I am a Dog-Exclusionary Radical Felinist
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I will never again be able to see them as anything more than monstrous fools who enabled utterly pointless mass murder. Hell of a legacy for the biggest fantasy series since Lord of the Rings.
What astounded me about the last episode was the scene with whimpering Cersei and mortally wounded Jaime and the romantic violin music playing as the Red Keep collapsed. Were we all suppose to believe this was a romantic end? Cersei was a mean, stupid and vengeful twat who fucked her twin brother, passed their children off as Robert's, indulged her crazy inbred son and didn't so much as scold him when he beheaded Ned, starting the war, tried to assassinate both her brothers, stupidly armed the Faith Militant and when that backfired blew up the sept with not only the Faith but several houses, Margaery and her uncle inside which drives her son to suicide, cavorts with Finger in the Bum pirate (once again passing off her incest baby as Euron's) and chops off Missandrei's head ensuring Daenarys will retaliate.

Both actors are great and did well, it just destroyed Jaime's earlier characterization (why fuck Brienne at all if he actually cared for her?) and Cersei was not a simpering, helpless woman. An awful person maybe but hardly likely to collapse into sobbing, blubbering mess even at the end.

But she dies with Jaime embracing her how tragic and sad.🎻
 

Krokodil Overdose

[|][||][||][|_]
kiwifarms.net
One of the worst things about the abysmal failure of setting up Daenerys's evil turn is that, retroactively, every single character who believed in her, fought for her, idealized her, worshipped her, is now a total fucking idiot.
I mean, if they're going for the "realistic fantasy" gimmick, that makes some sense: sometimes the people you put your faith in aren't what you believe them to be, but you hang onto that belief because it's too painful to let go. The thing is, staying in the fantasy genre (especially with the whole "army of the dead" gimmick) railroaded most of the characters into the camp of MUH MOTHER OV DARGANZ.

In an actual political intrigue story, this could have been easily solved by making Cersei a credible alternative to Dany, if you can overcome the latter's 3-dragon lead. It wouldn't even be hard to do: just rip (another) page from I, Claudius (the book, not the show) and make her a capable administrator, the way Livia was. In the book, despite being a horrible (and occasionally horrifying) human being, Livia was really good at managing the day-to-day affairs of the empire. She may have cared nothing for the people and seen the empire itself as a tool for her own ambitions, but it was a tool that needed to be well-maintained to serve her purposes; as a result, she was ironically the most dangerous to the people closest to her, while the vast majority prospered under her leadership. Contrast that with Dany "the dragon is my character sheet" Targaryen, whose principle method of solving problems is setting them on fire.

But they didn't do a political intrigue story. They did a story that started with political intrigue, then got taken over by the creeping supernatural elements, then pulled the plug on all of those in the middle of the 3rd act to head right back to where they started for the climax. No wonder the plot is disjointed and the character arcs are circular: the looming threat that drove so much of the plot for the last seven seasons now never mattered.

Grey Worm and by extension all the Unsullied? Totally mindless killing machines perfectly happy to slaughter innocents and follow Smokey the Bear's worst nightmare despite having been elevated from the cruelest slavery depicted on the show.
In fairness, the Unsullied are one of the most exceptional things ever put to paper in the entirety of the fantasy genre, doubly so for a story with any pretensions of realism. Add to that the fact that George "I don't like good guys and bad guys" Martin made the Masters so cartoonishly evil that I'm actually insulting many of the complex, nuanced cartoon villains by comparing them to the Masters. For me, trying to slot them into any kind of realistic scenario just returns a massive DOES NOT COMPUTE.
 

CWCissey

Charming Man
True & Honest Fan
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I really don't get why Ian McElhinney is so salty, he got out while the going was good and he now has a cushy and likely to be beloved role as Granda Joe in 'Derry Girls'

'Who put 50p in the eejit?'
 

No creativity

kiwifarms.net
Well, the guy who plays Euron thought he was playing book Euron. Then he was playing "OI, FINGA UP DA BUM" man and he was very not happy.
At least he did an amazing job with what he was given. I won't say that I'm not disappointed that they ruined his character but if I didn't know what book Euron was like I wouldn't mind his show version at all.
 

iRON-mAn

kiwifarms.net
In an actual political intrigue story, this could have been easily solved by making Cersei a credible alternative to Dany, if you can overcome the latter's 3-dragon lead. It wouldn't even be hard to do: just rip (another) page from I, Claudius (the book, not the show) and make her a capable administrator, the way Livia was. In the book, despite being a horrible (and occasionally horrifying) human being, Livia was really good at managing the day-to-day affairs of the empire. She may have cared nothing for the people and seen the empire itself as a tool for her own ambitions, but it was a tool that needed to be well-maintained to serve her purposes; as a result, she was ironically the most dangerous to the people closest to her, while the vast majority prospered under her leadership. Contrast that with Dany "the dragon is my character sheet" Targaryen, whose principle method of solving problems is setting them on fire.
That Cersei thinks she's a brilliant mastermind on level with her father but is actually terrible at ruling is effectively her characterization in the books as well as the show though, so while you could have changed that, at a certain point you're writing a Daenerys vs Livia fanfic, not an adaptation of Daenerys vs Cersei.

Her characterization in the show is still absurd though. They want her to seem ineffective and flamboyant in her machinations, but then offer no reason why Kings Landing isn't falling apart around her before Daenerys' arrival. In the books its mostly due to her uncle Kevan and Maester Pycelle that things keep on keeping on during her rule but the show cut them out without really replacing them considering that Qyburn doesn't really seem to do anything. Your idea could still have worked if they'd at least had someone who was good a managing the day to day affairs of the kingdom and Cersei was just taking all the credit.
 

Lemmingwise

Through a scanner smuckly
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In fairness, the Unsullied are one of the most exceptional things ever put to paper in the entirety of the fantasy genre, doubly so for a story with any pretensions of realism
What makes them so exceptional, compared to say, the janissaries in Turkey, which was an army made up off captured boys (slaves) from christian lands, (although they weren't made eunuchs like the harem guards, but instead under strict vow of celibacy).

Even the requirement of killing part is somewhat comparable to both spartan (who had to kill a helot, which were the majority of their population) and native american requirements (I think it was for jaguar warriors, who had to capture someone alive from one of the lesser tribes without being caught).
 
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Stoneheart

kiwifarms.net
This is true only depending on the army and time period in question. A general rule is that most medieval sieges (since the show most accurate reflects the high middle ages) ended with the city surrendering without a breach
most of the time the city just paid some money and was never sieged. citys normaly didnt have good walls or alot of people willing to defend them.
they just didnt cared alot who would own the city because city rights werent different under different lords.
Castles on the other hand were alot better defended by people who cared.
 

Silent Observer

Tetramonadist Titan
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This picture is definite fap material. Thanx for posting.

This is really the what's wrong with the GOT debacle-what's the point? Good people get fucked over? They can become bad? Bad people are rarely punished? Innocents suffer in wars? Things don't always work out for the best? I don't need a schlocky sci-fi tits and ass series of novels and I didn't need to watch a television series over nine years to tell me that.
Nigga, what kind of redneck bubba gump wannabe macho man bullshit are you talking about? You think I'm mad that the show has nihilistic themes? Do you know how many good shows, such as The Wire, The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Sons Of Anarchy, the Shield, deal with nihilism, and yet don't have horrible OOC writing like GOT?


TV is escapism, so is most fiction. Maybe if the Fat Man served in Vietnam and D&Dd were forced to go to Iraq we wouldn't have had this gratuitous war is hell bullshit/shit is fucked up garbage shoved at us in the most plebeian manner.
LOL, wut? You talk about plebs, yet you also talk about serving in Nam/Iraq, both pointless wars that plebs were forced to fight in. If you don't like fiction and find it too immature, and think that war will make you the manly man you want to be, go join the military and get your head blown off by a Desert Mormon, and leave the rest of us plebs here to live and criticize bad TV in peace.

In fairness, the Unsullied are one of the most exceptional things ever put to paper in the entirety of the fantasy genre, doubly so for a story with any pretensions of realism. Add to that the fact that George "I don't like good guys and bad guys" Martin made the Masters so cartoonishly evil that I'm actually insulting many of the complex, nuanced cartoon villains by comparing them to the Masters. For me, trying to slot them into any kind of realistic scenario just returns a massive DOES NOT COMPUTE.
I always wondered about the Unsullied: Wouldn't castrating them as boys destroy testosterone production, thus ensuring that they never gained muscle mass and stayed twinks their whole lives? I can't imagine an army of twinks being effective
 
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Lemmingwise

Through a scanner smuckly
kiwifarms.net
One of the worst things about the abysmal failure of setting up Daenerys's evil turn is that, retroactively, every single character who believed in her, fought for her, idealized her, worshipped her, is now a total fucking idiot.

Daario Naharis? A cuntstruck idiot. Jorah Mormont? A cuntstruck idiot whose redemption arc is arguably even more trashed than Jaime Lannister's, since he devoted his life to the Westerosi Hitler. Missandei? A misled airhead with zero judgement of character. Barristan Selmy? A washed up old fool who died fighting for someone who wound up making Joffrey look like Captain Kangaroo
I really think Jorah Mormont was cast badly. In the book it's big ugly strong guy. You could see how he would obsess over his waifu in the friendzone, and also why he would be convinced by his wife to sell slaves.

IMG_20190515_131117.png


I think the music is somewhat at fault, being always sentimental after the threatening part of it is done.

But if you look at the facts...

Season 1 Dany: Threatens to take over an entire nation
Season 2 Dany: threatens to burn entire cities to the ground (qarth wouldn't have been as vulnerable to a coup if they had let her die outside of the gates)
Season 3 Dany: burns the slavemasters alive after doing a deal with them. Is offered the ships she was after, but refuses. Conquers two cities, crucifies many of the defeated.
Season 4 Dany: more threats of fire and blood
Season 5 Dany: more threats of fire and blood
Season 6 Dany: burns all the dothraki khals alive.
Season 7 Dany: more fire and blood, burns the food caravans and house tarly
Season 8 Dany: wait why does she burn a city to the ground!?

Missandei was a slave, who is bound to be stockholmed. Daario was a fool in any case, murdering his bloodbrothers for the favour of an enemy.

Both actors are great and did well, it just destroyed Jaime's earlier characterization (why fuck Brienne at all if he actually cared for her?)
He tried to be good, but Brienne's fuckgame was so weak it made him turn back.

I think it was played rather badly, but I think the story itself, a subversion of a redemption arc, is actually pretty interesting. But him saying deadpan he never cared for the little people? Completely offtone; it would have made more sense if he said it trying to convince himself he's bad to have an excuse to go back to cersei.
 

Slimy Time

The Fang of Burnell
kiwifarms.net
3 Minutes of the Game of Thrones Cast Being Disappointed by Season 8


Highlights:
  • Emilia Clark outright laughing and then sarcastically saying "best season ever!" when questioned about whether she's happy with how things ended
  • Kit Harington literally saying the last season is "disappointing"
I really do feel bad for the actors. They put their hearts and souls into their characters and it ended up like... this.
When you heard stories of Emilia Clark walking around London for 2-3 hours in a fog because of how it ended...it becomes believable given how shockingly bad things turned out. Kit doesn't give a fuck at this point. Show is done, he's done with it, he gets to go home and bang his wife from a better season.
 

Feline Supremacist

I am a Dog-Exclusionary Radical Felinist
kiwifarms.net
LOL, wut? You talk about plebs, yet you also talk about serving in Nam/Iraq, both pointless wars that plebs were forced to fight in. If you don't like fiction and find it too immature, and think that war will make you the manly man you want to be, go join the military and get your head blown off by a Desert Mormon, and leave the rest of us plebs here to live and criticize bad TV in peace.
I've served and war didn't make me a man. Not that have any desire to be one.

notaman.gif
 

Silent Observer

Tetramonadist Titan
kiwifarms.net
I've served and war didn't make me a man. Not that have any desire to be one.

View attachment 759493
That's good for you, I hope you made the Desert Mormons suffer. My bad about the misgendering. I just find you viewpoint that war makes better writers to be somewhat flawed.
 
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Feline Supremacist

I am a Dog-Exclusionary Radical Felinist
kiwifarms.net
That's good for you, I hope you made the Desert Mormons suffer. Still doesn't explain why you think fighting in pointless wars would make better authors.
Stop trying to be clever, call them sandniggers like everyone else. And yeah, actual life experience tends to produce better writers. Tolkien served in WWI and was at the Battle of the Somme, probably the most pointless battle in an extraordinarily stupid war. He went on to write the defining work of what's called high fantasy.
 
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