Game of Thrones Thread -

Your Weird Fetish

Intersectional fetishist
kiwifarms.net
You're right. I typed Ariella because he typed Ariella, but I meant Arianne because I presume he means Arianne.

There's also nothing concrete to suggest that Daeron was actually a bastard, and Daemon was only legitimized on his deathbed, after he'd already taken on the Blackfyre name. As the older son, Daemon perhaps should have come first, but a son born within marriage and recognized by the Seven would always have the stronger claim.
I bet you thought Aegon II had a better claim than Rhaenyra too.
 

Silent Observer

Some randy
kiwifarms.net
What makes the whole Season 7 delay in attacking KL even more ridiculous in retrospect is that when Daenerys actually does attack the city, she conquers it with minimal loss of life, two fewer dragons, and a massively reduced army ... in less than ten minutes. Why did she wait?‽
Because Tyrion was transformed from the cleverest man in GOT to it's hugest idiot. Honestly, practically every major conflict that has befallen the heroes in the last couple of season has occured because of his incompetence in one way or another. Whether it's being gullible towards Dany and Cersei, or making ridiculous plans to capture White Walkers, I would say that Tyrion is indirectly responsible for damn near every death in the final couple seasons.


Finale summary
Jon, Davos and Tyrion are walking through the aftermath of Kings Landing. Tyrion walks through what's left of the castle and sees Jaime's hand so he starts to uncover the rubble and he confirms both Cersei and Jaime are dead. They find Grey Worm and his men they have Lannister Soldiers trapped and they're about to kill them. Jon trys to tells Grey Worm to stop. Grey Worm tells Jon that its the queens orders. Then they cut to Dany giving a speech pretty much saying how she freed the people from Kings Landing and the new goal is freeing the rest of the world. Dany turns to Tyrion and tells him he committed treason. Tyrion tells her that she killed thousands of innocent people and he takes off the hands pin and throws it. Dany sends him to prison.

Jon goes to see her and she sitting on the Iron throne alone and John tells her that she needs to stop being a crazy bitch and that Grey Worm killed the Lannisters army from the previous scene. Dany tells Jon that she's doing it for the people. Jon pretends to understand and tricks her. When her guard is down he stabs her. Drogon comes and is standing over her body and he burns or melts the Iron throne and carries her away.

Grey Worm has Tyrion and Jon as his prisoners. The *council is (led by Sansa) tells Grey Worm to release Jon back to them but he refuses. That's when Tyrion says that the new King or Queen should decide what happens to Jon. Sam suggest for a democratic vote for the new king. Tyrion calls that idea stupid. The council votes and decide Bran Should be the King. Bran picks Tyrion as his hand.

Tyrion tells Jon that his punishment is going back to the wall and join the Knights Watch. Grey Worm accepts Jons punishment. He doesn't bend the knee leaves with his troops and Dothraki on ships to go free Slave cities. They show Tyrion leading the council. Jon says goodbye to Sansa and Arya. Arya tells them she isn't going back home. She's going to explore whatever is west of Westeros because that's where no one has been.

The final scene is a Closing montage. You see Arya on a ship, Sansa ruling Winterfell and Jon doesnt stay at the wall he reunites with Tormund and Ghost.

Council Members: Samwell Tarly the Grand Maester, Davos Seaworth Master of ships, Bronn Master of Coin and High Garden, Brienne (not sure) Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, Yara Greyjoy Lord of Iron Islands, Robin Arryn Lord of Kingdom of the Mountain and the Vale, Gendry Baratheon Lord of Storm's End, Yohn Royce Lord of Runestone, Hound doesn't get mentioned., Podrick is wheeling around Bran and he protects him.

Ellaria Sand doesn't get mentioned (i asked because she's alive). Sam mentions that they seen Drogon in some location but aren't sure. Bran just says, "ill look for him" They don't have a Master of Laws and Whisperers. Tyrion is looking for the right people tto fill those spots. They don't clarify what Bran did when he was in warg during The Long Night. Did i forget to mention the most important detail about this entire episode? our good boy gets a pat from Jon.
I'm sorry, but this sounds like bullshit for a couple of reasons:
1) After killing a bunch of surrendered soldiers, there's no way Grey Worm would just be allowed to go back to Essos
2) Bronn, while good fighter, is no accountant, so making him Head of Coin makes zero sense, plus, why would he even be trusted with a government position?

I'm hoping that maybe D&D posted fake leaks to mislead audiences and dispel spoilers, but if events actually play out as they do in the leaks, it will truly be the worst series finale in TV History,

BTW, I wonder what the Iron Bank is doing during all of this. They must have lost a fuck ton of investments.
 

not william stenchever

Mr. Popo does not fuck
kiwifarms.net
2) Bronn, while good fighter, is no accountant, so making him Head of Coin makes zero sense, plus, why would he even be trusted with a government position?
Because he likes money and giving him the richest of the seven kingdoms and literally putting him in charge of all the money is fucking hilarious.

Just imagine the embezzlement he'll get up to :story:
 

Jub-Jub

kiwifarms.net
You're right. I typed Ariella because he typed Ariella, but I meant Arianne because I presume he means Arianne.
Yeah that was my bad, I did mean Arianne but bastardized her name with Sarella, I always get the few Dorne girls names i can remember mixed up. Probably because i didn't really like the Dorne part of the books except for the snake hidden in the grass speech.
 

friedshrimp

uwuu
kiwifarms.net
I really hope this kills any of that "GOT is better than Lord of the Rings cause MUH realism, muh Aragorn Tax Policy, I hate chosen one narratives and cliches blah blah, this isn't a Disney movie" discourse because if you're ending the story with the one character not related to politics at all as the king, then you've just shown your true colors as a phony desperate to make your product stand out...When it's the same shit you've been criticizing all this time.
 

Your Weird Fetish

Intersectional fetishist
kiwifarms.net
I really hope this kills any of that "GOT is better than Lord of the Rings cause MUH realism, muh Aragorn Tax Policy, I hate chosen one narratives and cliches blah blah, this isn't a Disney movie" discourse because if you're ending the story with the one character not related to politics at all as the king, then you've just shown your true colors as a phony desperate to make your product stand out...When it's the same shit you've been criticizing all this time.
It won't because this is the dumb show and not the pretty good books. I don't know why GRRM's comment gets taken so personally. He didn't mean it as a criticism of LOTR and that's pretty clear in context. It was just a declaration of different tastes and aims.

In reality it's an apples to oranges comparison. Unless GRRM never finishes in which case Tolkien is clearly inherently superior to GRRM.

EDIT: There is one comment he made that was directly criticizing LOTR that I'm surprised doesn't get bitched about more. He outright said multiple times that, to him, it was a mistake for Gandalf to return to life. That he should have stayed dead after Moria.
 
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verissimus

kiwifarms.net
I personally don't even understand wth exactly Martin was trying to do in the first place. I hear people talk about how he wanted to "combat the fantasy tropes", and it seems pretty clear he wants to add some sense of realism/the mundane (that is de-emphasize the fantasy side of things), but if you're going to do either what's the point? Why would you go into writing a series, never mind a book, just because you don't like seeing good vs. evil in a fantasy story for example? Like what else are you supposed to do in that kind of setting that's supposed to be interesting or moving and mind you do while embracing the genre that you're writing about?

This honestly leads me to believe Martin doesn't actually really know or care what he's doing because the impression I get from some of his comments especially the ones that were part of that Rolling Stones interview talking about Aragorn's tax policy, is that he seems more concerned about the lore, history, and perhaps say the mechanics of his fantasy story (and by mechanics I mean say how X, say dragons, if available effects and influences the world around them). than providing a general straight forward narrative the audience can care about. Because if the show is any (and I mean any) indication of things, it seems pretty clear the fantasy side of things, white walkers, all the prophecies, etc. don't really matter. In fact, really nothing seems to matter that much because guess what the characters go back to doing? Killing themselves over who gets to sit in the iron throne. And surely someone might respond, well that's the point. It's a tragic story, to which I say, why would you spend this amount of time then just to deliver a tragic story or try making us believe it wouldn't be one? You mean to tell me you couldn't shorten the overall story to a few characters, houses and historical tidbits that will actually matter to the plot just to arrive to your goal? Like how is this ok with folks? It's one thing to accept a tragic story. That's not hard to do especially when it's fairly short and sweet, but it's another thing entirely to accept one where, you lead us to believe maybe such and such characters will fix things or at least mitigate the damage done by say their forebears, only for that likely not being the case. In fact, if we're going to go by the show we clearly not going to get that since Daenerys has clearly gone further than her own father, Tywin Lannister, Ramsay and Roose Bolton, Cersei, and Walder Frey combined. Seven seasons of the character pretending she might be an ok ruler, only to piss all over that just because we need a tragic ending.
 
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Your Weird Fetish

Intersectional fetishist
kiwifarms.net
It's pretty simple. He wanted a story with the trappings of fun fantasy middle ages but the cynical grit and brutality of the real middle ages. (with maybe some weird scifi stuff thrown in depending on what he does with the Others in the books). Back in the early 90's when he got started that was actually novel. Now it's almost a cliché in it itself.
 

Krokodil Overdose

[|][||][||][|_]
kiwifarms.net
I personally don't even understand wth exactly Martin was trying to do in the first place. I hear people talk about how he wanted to "combat the fantasy tropes", and it seems pretty clear he wants to add some sense of realism/the mundane (that is de-emphasize the fantasy side of things), but if you're going to do either what's the point? Why would you go into writing a series, never mind a book, just because you don't like seeing good vs. evil in a fantasy story for example? Like what else are you supposed to do in that kind of setting that's supposed to be interesting or moving and mind you do while embracing the genre that you're writing about?
I disagree, to a point. There's a lot you can do with a fantastic setting that doesn't have to end with some variant of Aragorn marching on the Black Gate (which is ironically not typical to fantasy stories, since it was basically a sac fly on the part of Team Good Guy.) One of the ur-examples of the fantasy genre will do nicely: Robert E. Howard's Conan stories are all one-shots about a guy knocking around a fantastic setting trying to get paid, laid, or both. Sure, he fights evil, but only when he's got a reason to, like there's money in it or it's threatening his immediate well-being- and he does this all without any magic or supernatural abilities, just his steely thews and balls so big they have their own gravitational pull (for women, anyway.)

Because if the show is any (and I mean any) indication of things, it seems pretty clear the fantasy side of things, white walkers, all the prophecies, etc. don't really matter. In fact, really nothing seems to matter that much because guess what the characters go back to doing? Killing themselves over who gets to sit in the iron throne. And surely someone might respond, well that's the point. It's a tragic story, to which I say, why would you spend this amount of time then just to deliver a tragic story or try making us believe it wouldn't be one?
I think the problem here isn't that it's a tragic story so much as a pointless one. The Night King is the embodiment of this: for seven seasons, viewers were told (to borrow a leaf from Urza's book) "victory will come from all of Westeros, or it will not come." Against the onslaught of the dead, they would unite, or they would fall- and they didn't unite. In a proper tragedy, we all know what happens: they perish for their hubris, and the world with them, and the final shot is the Night King ascending the frost-rimed Iron Throne as the zombified corpses of all the characters we loved bend the knee to him.

Instead, Arya 360-noscopes him and all that buildup turns into "lol, J/K, let's go curb-stomp Cersei and end this stupid thing." Seven seasons of anticipation for "well, the dog wasn't that frosty."
 

Spatula

delete your twitter.
kiwifarms.net
I'm sorry, but this sounds like bullshit for a couple of reasons:
1) After killing a bunch of surrendered soldiers, there's no way Grey Worm would just be allowed to go back to Essos
2) Bronn, while good fighter, is no accountant, so making him Head of Coin makes zero sense, plus, why would he even be trusted with a government position?
You know, I was thinking the same thing when I read about the BELLS leak.
I was imagining it in my head and it was so stupid and comical and I was doubting ,thinking, no way, there is no way they could be that stupid.
Lo and behold.

Now I realize the dumbest scenario you can probably think of is the most probable one.
 

Starscreams Cape

Read my posts in his voice
kiwifarms.net
I don't think her perceived rivalry is unjustified because she spent her whole life thinking she's special and suddenly this mopey schlub from the North:

-has a better birthright claim than she does
-has the support of two of the nations of westeros (the north and the vale)
-isn't an invader/outsider
-also has a group of savages willing to die for him
-can also claim magical providence (his resurrection)
-is a tested battle commander
I've been trying to put my finger on how to describe Jon this season. "Mopey schlub" is dead on...consider it swiped.

I personally don't even understand wth exactly Martin was trying to do in the first place. I hear people talk about how he wanted to "combat the fantasy tropes", and it seems pretty clear he wants to add some sense of realism/the mundane (that is de-emphasize the fantasy side of things), but if you're going to do either what's the point? Why would you go into writing a series, never mind a book, just because you don't like seeing good vs. evil in a fantasy story for example? Like what else are you supposed to do in that kind of setting that's supposed to be interesting or moving and mind you do while embracing the genre that you're writing about?

This honestly leads me to believe Martin doesn't actually really know or care what he's doing because the impression I get from some of his comments especially the ones that were part of that Rolling Stones interview talking about Aragorn's tax policy, is that he seems more concerned about the lore, history, and perhaps say the mechanics of his fantasy story (and by mechanics I mean say how X, say dragons, if available effects and influences the world around them). than providing a general straight forward narrative the audience can care about. Because if the show is any (and I mean any) indication of things, it seems pretty clear the fantasy side of things, white walkers, all the prophecies, etc. don't really matter. In fact, really nothing seems to matter that much because guess what the characters go back to doing? Killing themselves over who gets to sit in the iron throne. And surely someone might respond, well that's the point. It's a tragic story, to which I say, why would you spend this amount of time then just to deliver a tragic story or try making us believe it wouldn't be one? You mean to tell me you couldn't shorten the overall story to a few characters, houses and historical tidbits that will actually matter to the plot just to arrive to your goal? Like how is this ok with folks? It's one thing to accept a tragic story. That's not hard to do especially when it's fairly short and sweet, but it's another thing entirely to accept one where, you lead us to believe maybe such and such characters will fix things or at least mitigate the damage done by say their forebears, only for that likely not being the case. In fact, if we're going to go by the show we clearly not going to get that since Daenerys has clearly gone further than her own father, Tywin Lannister, Ramsay and Roose Bolton, Cersei, and Walder Frey combined. Seven seasons of the character pretending she might be an ok ruler, only to piss all over that just because we need a tragic ending.
If you know anything about Martin he was a pretty enthusiastic role player back in the day. I get the feeling he's like a good DM who created his world, its history and interesting characters to inhabit it. What he doesn't have is a table full of good players to help him lead his story where it needs to go.

He's clearly struggling what to do with Danaerys in the books. The show is just the canary in the coal mine. People who are expecting a vastly different outcome from the books may end up being doubly disappointed in the end. He may set up Dany's break a little better but if that's where it's ultimately leading anyway it's not going to be very satisfying.
 

дядя Боря

kiwifarms.net
It's a tragic story, to which I say, why would you spend this amount of time then just to deliver a tragic story or try making us believe it wouldn't be one? You mean to tell me you couldn't shorten the overall story to a few characters, houses and historical tidbits that will actually matter to the plot just to arrive to your goal? Like how is this ok with folks? It's one thing to accept a tragic story. That's not hard to do especially when it's fairly short and sweet, but it's another thing entirely to accept one where, you lead us to believe maybe such and such characters will fix things or at least mitigate the damage done by say their forebears, only for that likely not being the case.
well, that's the difference between a story with a moral and soap operas that meant to go on and on and on, keeping captive audience. From Martin's 90's letter with the proposal to the publisher, that's exactly what wanted to do, endless diarrhea without any point.
 
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Silent Observer

Some randy
kiwifarms.net
I personally don't even understand wth exactly Martin was trying to do in the first place. I hear people talk about how he wanted to "combat the fantasy tropes", and it seems pretty clear he wants to add some sense of realism/the mundane (that is de-emphasize the fantasy side of things), but if you're going to do either what's the point? Why would you go into writing a series, never mind a book, just because you don't like seeing good vs. evil in a fantasy story for example? Like what else are you supposed to do in that kind of setting that's supposed to be interesting or moving and mind you do while embracing the genre that you're writing about?

This honestly leads me to believe Martin doesn't actually really know or care what he's doing because the impression I get from some of his comments especially the ones that were part of that Rolling Stones interview talking about Aragorn's tax policy, is that he seems more concerned about the lore, history, and perhaps say the mechanics of his fantasy story (and by mechanics I mean say how X, say dragons, if available effects and influences the world around them). than providing a general straight forward narrative the audience can care about. Because if the show is any (and I mean any) indication of things, it seems pretty clear the fantasy side of things, white walkers, all the prophecies, etc. don't really matter. In fact, really nothing seems to matter that much because guess what the characters go back to doing? Killing themselves over who gets to sit in the iron throne. And surely someone might respond, well that's the point. It's a tragic story, to which I say, why would you spend this amount of time then just to deliver a tragic story or try making us believe it wouldn't be one? You mean to tell me you couldn't shorten the overall story to a few characters, houses and historical tidbits that will actually matter to the plot just to arrive to your goal? Like how is this ok with folks? It's one thing to accept a tragic story. That's not hard to do especially when it's fairly short and sweet, but it's another thing entirely to accept one where, you lead us to believe maybe such and such characters will fix things or at least mitigate the damage done by say their forebears, only for that likely not being the case. In fact, if we're going to go by the show we clearly not going to get that since Daenerys has clearly gone further than her own father, Tywin Lannister, Ramsay and Roose Bolton, Cersei, and Walder Frey combined. Seven seasons of the character pretending she might be an ok ruler, only to piss all over that just because we need a tragic ending.
To me, it seems that GRRM wanted to achieve 3 things with ASOIAF
1) Create a deep-lore Tolkien-esque Medieval Fantasy World with numerous characters, locales, and fantastical fauna
2) Subvert the Medieval Fantasy genre by showcasing the brutal Hobbesian living standards of IRL Medieval times
3) Tell a timeless parable about the dangers of humanity's self-destructive tribalism and how it distracts us from the imminent threats to our entire species

IMO, GRRM got overwhelmed by the massive world-building of Westeros, which has resulted in the stagnation of the novels that we see to this day.
 

verissimus

kiwifarms.net
Hmm. You guys responses weren't as bad as I'd thought they would (then again I knew I was taking a wild stab there). On a side note, are any of you aware of Final Fantasy Tactics and if so what do you think of it vs Game of Thrones/A Song of Fire and Ice.

I personally prefer FFT. It was far more concise, straight-forward, didn't have pointless sex scenes or characters clearly spouting off one liners for the audience amusement (well except in battle), good characters and a good story with a sort of tragic feel for at least 2 characters but above all embraced the genre of the story Interesting enough, it came out over a year after ASoIaF started.
 
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Your Weird Fetish

Intersectional fetishist
kiwifarms.net
Hmm. You guys responses weren't as bad as I'd thought they would (then again I knew I was taking a wild stab there). On a side note, are any of you aware of Final Fantasy Tactics and if so what do you think of it vs Game of Thrones/A Song of Fire and Ice.

I personally prefer FFT. It was far more concise, straight-forward, didn't have pointless sex scenes or characters clearly spouting off one liners for the audience amusement (well except in battle), good characters and a good story with a sort of tragic feel for at least 2 characters but above all embraced the genre of the story Interesting enough, it came out over a year after ASoIaF started.
It's a video game so apples to oranges, but it's also finished so it wins by default. Very good game all around anyway.
 

verissimus

kiwifarms.net
Hmm. It just occurred to me, that like the writers, I kind of forgot how the white walkers pretty much needed one of Daenerys dragons to take down the wall in order for them to pass. Then again, maybe they could have just had Jon convince Daenerys to come with him North along with her dragons (perhaps with him on one too just for some levity) to see that the white walkers did exist only of course to get ambushed. Certainly that would have been better than convincing her with cave drawings/etches. In fact, how was he able to convince her with some random cave drawings/etches...wtf. Seriously?
 
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