Game of Thrones Thread -

Frazzle

kiwifarms.net
Idk if you all have read the new spoilers on FreeFolk but the ending looks like it is going to be boring as fuck.
 

OttoWest

1988 Miss Black Awareness Pageant finalist
kiwifarms.net
Finale summary
Jon, Davos and Tyrion are walking through the aftermath of Kings Landing. Tyrion walks through what's left of the castle and sees Jaime's hand so he starts to uncover the rubble and he confirms both Cersei and Jaime are dead. They find Grey Worm and his men they have Lannister Soldiers trapped and they're about to kill them. Jon trys to tells Grey Worm to stop. Grey Worm tells Jon that its the queens orders. Then they cut to Dany giving a speech pretty much saying how she freed the people from Kings Landing and the new goal is freeing the rest of the world. Dany turns to Tyrion and tells him he committed treason. Tyrion tells her that she killed thousands of innocent people and he takes off the hands pin and throws it. Dany sends him to prison.

Jon goes to see her and she sitting on the Iron throne alone and John tells her that she needs to stop being a crazy bitch and that Grey Worm killed the Lannisters army from the previous scene. Dany tells Jon that she's doing it for the people. Jon pretends to understand and tricks her. When her guard is down he stabs her. Drogon comes and is standing over her body and he burns or melts the Iron throne and carries her away.

Grey Worm has Tyrion and Jon as his prisoners. The *council is (led by Sansa) tells Grey Worm to release Jon back to them but he refuses. That's when Tyrion says that the new King or Queen should decide what happens to Jon. Sam suggest for a democratic vote for the new king. Tyrion calls that idea stupid. The council votes and decide Bran Should be the King. Bran picks Tyrion as his hand.

Tyrion tells Jon that his punishment is going back to the wall and join the Knights Watch. Grey Worm accepts Jons punishment. He doesn't bend the knee leaves with his troops and Dothraki on ships to go free Slave cities. They show Tyrion leading the council. Jon says goodbye to Sansa and Arya. Arya tells them she isn't going back home. She's going to explore whatever is west of Westeros because that's where no one has been.

The final scene is a Closing montage. You see Arya on a ship, Sansa ruling Winterfell and Jon doesnt stay at the wall he reunites with Tormund and Ghost.

Council Members: Samwell Tarly the Grand Maester, Davos Seaworth Master of ships, Bronn Master of Coin and High Garden, Brienne (not sure) Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, Yara Greyjoy Lord of Iron Islands, Robin Arryn Lord of Kingdom of the Mountain and the Vale, Gendry Baratheon Lord of Storm's End, Yohn Royce Lord of Runestone, Hound doesn't get mentioned., Podrick is wheeling around Bran and he protects him.

Ellaria Sand doesn't get mentioned (i asked because she's alive). Sam mentions that they seen Drogon in some location but aren't sure. Bran just says, "ill look for him" They don't have a Master of Laws and Whisperers. Tyrion is looking for the right people to fill those spots. They don't clarify what Bran did when he was in warg during The Long Night. Did i forget to mention the most important detail about this entire episode? our good boy gets a pat from Jon.
 

Your Weird Fetish

Intersectional fetishist
kiwifarms.net
I don't think her perceived rivalry is unjustified because she spent her whole life thinking she's special and suddenly this mopey schlub from the North:

-has a better birthright claim than she does
-has the support of two of the nations of westeros (the north and the vale)
-isn't an invader/outsider
-also has a group of savages willing to die for him
-can also claim magical providence (his resurrection)
-is a tested battle commander
Jon's claim is only better than hers if you're one of those autistic cunts that thought the council of AC 101 was meant to settle Targaryen succession forever. Rhaenyra did nothing wrong. #Imwithher
 

TheWatcherofWatchers

kiwifarms.net
Finale summary
Jon, Davos and Tyrion are walking through the aftermath of Kings Landing. Tyrion walks through what's left of the castle and sees Jaime's hand so he starts to uncover the rubble and he confirms both Cersei and Jaime are dead. They find Grey Worm and his men they have Lannister Soldiers trapped and they're about to kill them. Jon trys to tells Grey Worm to stop. Grey Worm tells Jon that its the queens orders. Then they cut to Dany giving a speech pretty much saying how she freed the people from Kings Landing and the new goal is freeing the rest of the world. Dany turns to Tyrion and tells him he committed treason. Tyrion tells her that she killed thousands of innocent people and he takes off the hands pin and throws it. Dany sends him to prison.

Jon goes to see her and she sitting on the Iron throne alone and John tells her that she needs to stop being a crazy bitch and that Grey Worm killed the Lannisters army from the previous scene. Dany tells Jon that she's doing it for the people. Jon pretends to understand and tricks her. When her guard is down he stabs her. Drogon comes and is standing over her body and he burns or melts the Iron throne and carries her away.

Grey Worm has Tyrion and Jon as his prisoners. The *council is (led by Sansa) tells Grey Worm to release Jon back to them but he refuses. That's when Tyrion says that the new King or Queen should decide what happens to Jon. Sam suggest for a democratic vote for the new king. Tyrion calls that idea stupid. The council votes and decide Bran Should be the King. Bran picks Tyrion as his hand.

Tyrion tells Jon that his punishment is going back to the wall and join the Knights Watch. Grey Worm accepts Jons punishment. He doesn't bend the knee leaves with his troops and Dothraki on ships to go free Slave cities. They show Tyrion leading the council. Jon says goodbye to Sansa and Arya. Arya tells them she isn't going back home. She's going to explore whatever is west of Westeros because that's where no one has been.

The final scene is a Closing montage. You see Arya on a ship, Sansa ruling Winterfell and Jon doesnt stay at the wall he reunites with Tormund and Ghost.

Council Members: Samwell Tarly the Grand Maester, Davos Seaworth Master of ships, Bronn Master of Coin and High Garden, Brienne (not sure) Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, Yara Greyjoy Lord of Iron Islands, Robin Arryn Lord of Kingdom of the Mountain and the Vale, Gendry Baratheon Lord of Storm's End, Yohn Royce Lord of Runestone, Hound doesn't get mentioned., Podrick is wheeling around Bran and he protects him.

Ellaria Sand doesn't get mentioned (i asked because she's alive). Sam mentions that they seen Drogon in some location but aren't sure. Bran just says, "ill look for him" They don't have a Master of Laws and Whisperers. Tyrion is looking for the right people to fill those spots. They don't clarify what Bran did when he was in warg during The Long Night. Did i forget to mention the most important detail about this entire episode? our good boy gets a pat from Jon.
That ending sounds so fake and so stupid and yet the possibility of it actually happening is strong. I'm sure this is the peak of D & D's writing
 

Your Weird Fetish

Intersectional fetishist
kiwifarms.net
So I'm seeing some interesting arguments on reddit that the linchpin that brought this story crashing down was the decision to remove Young Griff and Jon Connington, along with Quentyn Martell and the Dorne plot, because somehow those elements are going to tie everything together. The resulting patch job on the show just isn't working.

I have not read the books, and the big plot points that are left out are the things I know the least about, but would any of the book experts here care to weigh in? From what I gather, the thinking is that Griff will conquer King's Landing before Daenerys manages it, and she'll turn her dragons loose on the city out of rage and frustration.
It's entirely possible since no one knows where GRRM is going with this, but given that GRRM himself doesn't seem to know where he's going with this I doubt it's that and not just 1. The lack of material to adapt and 2. D&D being hacks.

If I had to venture a guess as to the change that ruined them, it'd be the complete re-characterization of Euron. Whose book counterpart would actually make sense as the secret final boss after the Others are defeated.
 

Jub-Jub

kiwifarms.net
it's occured to me Dany really would have been better off storming kings landing upon arrival on westeros in season 7. Whoever told her not to blitz the red keep for humanitarian reasons is a fucking idiot. The war could have been concluded in about 30-60 minutes without any allied and minimum civilian and enemy casualties.
What a stupid plan, you must be going mad. It's much better to go around the continent to the other side and capture a useless castle and lose our entire fleet, then we'll go and attack the lannister wagon train after they captured our allies castle south of KL. After that we'll go north past the wall to capture a wight for peace negotiations.
I have not read the books, and the big plot points that are left out are the things I know the least about, but would any of the book experts here care to weigh in? From what I gather, the thinking is that Griff will conquer King's Landing before Daenerys manages it, and she'll turn her dragons loose on the city out of rage and frustration.
To add to what @Marco Fucko said
  • The golden company was also started by house Blackfyre and there is symbolism that fAegon is a Blackfyre.
  • Dorne was going to back Dany, but Quentyn gets roasted and so they will probably back fAegon instead with one of the Sand snakes Ariella?.
  • There's speculation that Rob legitimized Jon as King in Da Norf before his death and the document is slowly making its way north
  • Lady Stoneheart (revived Catlyn Stark) might also be looking for the document
  • Stannis may have set a trap to wreck the Freys before sneaking into Winterfell wreck the Boltons.

Anyway here is my guess of D&D's inspiration for writing the final season.
Good night, ding-ding-ding-ding-ding
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2lyshg (~2.50 for Dany's writing)
 

iRON-mAn

kiwifarms.net
Braavos is a city of run away slaves, a long distance away from slavers bay. it is(or was) a secret for the longest time.
They still exist on the same continent and their trade doesn't exist in a vacuum from each other. This is like arguing that a workers strike in Brandenburg wouldn't affect grain sales in Aquitaine. Of course it would, and they wouldn't want the same sentiments taking root in their own workers.

Westeros doesn't keep slaves but it also doesn't actively stop others from doing so outside it's own borders. Braavos does. So, the idea of someone or some nation actively participating in forcing the abolition of slavery wouldn't actually be a radical concept to the Slaver Cities in Slavers Bay who would of course be aware of the issue because it would affect their ability to sell slaves and they would want to keep those notions away from their slaves.

-has a better birthright claim than she does
I really think this is a big part of it. Her entire life she's heard Robert called usurper and she continues to call the children that rule after him, through his right (despite not being his) as usurpers. The idea of a legitimate heir with a more direct claim, whether that ends up as Jon or Griff in the books, is something that she's literally never had to contend with, and she can't simply cry usurper.

Of course, she can question their claim, and Griff's backstory in the books is very suspicious, but if he does manage to take King's Landing peacefully, I can imagine her arguments being drowned out by the love of the people.

I'm not, but here's the basics of that storyline:
  • There is a 'sister house' to the Targaryens, the Blackfyres, composed of the descendants of a Targaryen bastard who was bestowed a Valerian sword named Blackfyre, and due to its symbolism within the monarchy helped to build support for a rebellion or civil war. I can't remember if Griff is confirmed as a Blackfyre or if it's just a fan theory.
  • Young Griff is allegedly Aegon Targaryen, one of the children supposedly killed by the Mountain before he raped and murdered Elia Martell
  • Jon Connington is an exiled former hand to Aerys (the Mad King)
  • Varys' betrayal of King's Landing is in relation to Young Griff, not to Dany.
  • These are the guys with The Golden Company at their back, and as a note since I don't think the show mentions it this season, the Golden Company is the closest thing to a professional army in the world of ASOIAF, even though they only number 10,000 they are all extremely skilled and well disciplined
  • Connington wants to court Dorne and the Vale as allies for his claim, since they have suffered the least loss of forces throughout the war of the five kings.
  • Young Griff is presented as a more dutiful/fit candidate for King than the likes of Tommen since he has both been trained as an aristocrat and worked with commoners
The Blackfyre thing is just a fan theory, mostly because almost every part of Westeros history has wound up having some importance on the current story so why not the Blackfyres. It's going to be hella convenient though if Varys was able to find the one Blackfyre kid young enough to play fAegon and young enough to brainwash into believing it himself. I mean I can see it being true, as much as R + L = J, but it just seems like a very weird plot point given that it's only real relevance is as a funny inhistory throwback.

To add to what @Marco Fucko said
  • The golden company was also started by house Blackfyre and there is symbolism that fAegon is a Blackfyre.
  • Dorne was going to back Dany, but Quentyn gets roasted and so they will probably back fAegon instead with one of the Sand snakes Ariella?.
  • There's speculation that Rob legitimized Jon as King in Da Norf before his death and the document is slowly making its way north
  • Lady Stoneheart (revived Catlyn Stark) might also be looking for the document
  • Stannis may have set a trap to wreck the Freys before sneaking into Winterfell wreck the Boltons.
Ariella isn't a Sand Snake. She's the legitimate daughter of Doran Martell, and heir to Dorne. She was supposed to marry Viserys, but with him being dead and her brother failing to marry Daenerys, she might marry fAegon, securing the allegiance with Dorne as you say.
 

Your Weird Fetish

Intersectional fetishist
kiwifarms.net
They still exist on the same continent and their trade doesn't exist in a vacuum from each other. This is like arguing that a workers strike in Brandenburg wouldn't affect grain sales in Aquitaine. Of course it would, and they wouldn't want the same sentiments taking root in their own workers.

Westeros doesn't keep slaves but it also doesn't actively stop others from doing so outside it's own borders. Braavos does. So, the idea of someone or some nation actively participating in forcing the abolition of slavery wouldn't actually be a radical concept to the Slaver Cities in Slavers Bay who would of course be aware of the issue because it would affect their ability to sell slaves and they would want to keep those notions away from their slaves.



I really think this is a big part of it. Her entire life she's heard Robert called usurper and she continues to call the children that rule after him, through his right (despite not being his) as usurpers. The idea of a legitimate heir with a more direct claim, whether that ends up as Jon or Griff in the books, is something that she's literally never had to contend with, and she can't simply cry usurper.

Of course, she can question their claim, and Griff's backstory in the books is very suspicious, but if he does manage to take King's Landing peacefully, I can imagine her arguments being drowned out by the love of the people.



The Blackfyre thing is just a fan theory, mostly because almost every part of Westeros history has wound up having some importance on the current story so why not the Blackfyres. It's going to be hella convenient though if Varys was able to find the one Blackfyre kid young enough to play fAegon and young enough to brainwash into believing it himself. I mean I can see it being true, as much as R + L = J, but it just seems like a very weird plot point given that it's only real relevance is as a funny inhistory throwback.



Ariella isn't a Sand Snake. She's the legitimate daughter of Doran Martell, and heir to Dorne. She was supposed to marry Viserys, but with him being dead and her brother failing to marry Daenerys, she might marry fAegon, securing the allegiance with Dorne as you say.
You mean Arianne. There is no Ariella.

Also the Blackfyres had the better claim anyway since Daemon was legitimized and older, and Daeron was the bastard of Aemon the Dragon Knight. But yeah it's pretty likely that Aegon's VI's mother was the last Blackfyre.
 

iRON-mAn

kiwifarms.net
You mean Arianne. There is no Ariella.

Also the Blackfyres had the better claim anyway since Daemon was legitimized and older, and Daeron was the bastard of Aemon the Dragon Knight. But yeah it's pretty likely that Aegon's VI's mother was the last Blackfyre.
You're right. I typed Ariella because he typed Ariella, but I meant Arianne because I presume he means Arianne.

There's also nothing concrete to suggest that Daeron was actually a bastard, and Daemon was only legitimized on his deathbed, after he'd already taken on the Blackfyre name. As the older son, Daemon perhaps should have come first, but a son born within marriage and recognized by the Seven would always have the stronger claim.
 

Your Weird Fetish

Intersectional fetishist
kiwifarms.net
You're right. I typed Ariella because he typed Ariella, but I meant Arianne because I presume he means Arianne.

There's also nothing concrete to suggest that Daeron was actually a bastard, and Daemon was only legitimized on his deathbed, after he'd already taken on the Blackfyre name. As the older son, Daemon perhaps should have come first, but a son born within marriage and recognized by the Seven would always have the stronger claim.
I bet you thought Aegon II had a better claim than Rhaenyra too.
 

Silent Observer

Tetramonadist Titan
kiwifarms.net
What makes the whole Season 7 delay in attacking KL even more ridiculous in retrospect is that when Daenerys actually does attack the city, she conquers it with minimal loss of life, two fewer dragons, and a massively reduced army ... in less than ten minutes. Why did she wait?‽
Because Tyrion was transformed from the cleverest man in GOT to it's hugest idiot. Honestly, practically every major conflict that has befallen the heroes in the last couple of season has occured because of his incompetence in one way or another. Whether it's being gullible towards Dany and Cersei, or making ridiculous plans to capture White Walkers, I would say that Tyrion is indirectly responsible for damn near every death in the final couple seasons.


Finale summary
Jon, Davos and Tyrion are walking through the aftermath of Kings Landing. Tyrion walks through what's left of the castle and sees Jaime's hand so he starts to uncover the rubble and he confirms both Cersei and Jaime are dead. They find Grey Worm and his men they have Lannister Soldiers trapped and they're about to kill them. Jon trys to tells Grey Worm to stop. Grey Worm tells Jon that its the queens orders. Then they cut to Dany giving a speech pretty much saying how she freed the people from Kings Landing and the new goal is freeing the rest of the world. Dany turns to Tyrion and tells him he committed treason. Tyrion tells her that she killed thousands of innocent people and he takes off the hands pin and throws it. Dany sends him to prison.

Jon goes to see her and she sitting on the Iron throne alone and John tells her that she needs to stop being a crazy bitch and that Grey Worm killed the Lannisters army from the previous scene. Dany tells Jon that she's doing it for the people. Jon pretends to understand and tricks her. When her guard is down he stabs her. Drogon comes and is standing over her body and he burns or melts the Iron throne and carries her away.

Grey Worm has Tyrion and Jon as his prisoners. The *council is (led by Sansa) tells Grey Worm to release Jon back to them but he refuses. That's when Tyrion says that the new King or Queen should decide what happens to Jon. Sam suggest for a democratic vote for the new king. Tyrion calls that idea stupid. The council votes and decide Bran Should be the King. Bran picks Tyrion as his hand.

Tyrion tells Jon that his punishment is going back to the wall and join the Knights Watch. Grey Worm accepts Jons punishment. He doesn't bend the knee leaves with his troops and Dothraki on ships to go free Slave cities. They show Tyrion leading the council. Jon says goodbye to Sansa and Arya. Arya tells them she isn't going back home. She's going to explore whatever is west of Westeros because that's where no one has been.

The final scene is a Closing montage. You see Arya on a ship, Sansa ruling Winterfell and Jon doesnt stay at the wall he reunites with Tormund and Ghost.

Council Members: Samwell Tarly the Grand Maester, Davos Seaworth Master of ships, Bronn Master of Coin and High Garden, Brienne (not sure) Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, Yara Greyjoy Lord of Iron Islands, Robin Arryn Lord of Kingdom of the Mountain and the Vale, Gendry Baratheon Lord of Storm's End, Yohn Royce Lord of Runestone, Hound doesn't get mentioned., Podrick is wheeling around Bran and he protects him.

Ellaria Sand doesn't get mentioned (i asked because she's alive). Sam mentions that they seen Drogon in some location but aren't sure. Bran just says, "ill look for him" They don't have a Master of Laws and Whisperers. Tyrion is looking for the right people tto fill those spots. They don't clarify what Bran did when he was in warg during The Long Night. Did i forget to mention the most important detail about this entire episode? our good boy gets a pat from Jon.
I'm sorry, but this sounds like bullshit for a couple of reasons:
1) After killing a bunch of surrendered soldiers, there's no way Grey Worm would just be allowed to go back to Essos
2) Bronn, while good fighter, is no accountant, so making him Head of Coin makes zero sense, plus, why would he even be trusted with a government position?

I'm hoping that maybe D&D posted fake leaks to mislead audiences and dispel spoilers, but if events actually play out as they do in the leaks, it will truly be the worst series finale in TV History,

BTW, I wonder what the Iron Bank is doing during all of this. They must have lost a fuck ton of investments.
 

not william stenchever

menaces with spikes of sheet metal
kiwifarms.net
2) Bronn, while good fighter, is no accountant, so making him Head of Coin makes zero sense, plus, why would he even be trusted with a government position?
Because he likes money and giving him the richest of the seven kingdoms and literally putting him in charge of all the money is fucking hilarious.

Just imagine the embezzlement he'll get up to :story:
 

Jub-Jub

kiwifarms.net
You're right. I typed Ariella because he typed Ariella, but I meant Arianne because I presume he means Arianne.
Yeah that was my bad, I did mean Arianne but bastardized her name with Sarella, I always get the few Dorne girls names i can remember mixed up. Probably because i didn't really like the Dorne part of the books except for the snake hidden in the grass speech.
 

friedshrimp

uwuu
kiwifarms.net
I really hope this kills any of that "GOT is better than Lord of the Rings cause MUH realism, muh Aragorn Tax Policy, I hate chosen one narratives and cliches blah blah, this isn't a Disney movie" discourse because if you're ending the story with the one character not related to politics at all as the king, then you've just shown your true colors as a phony desperate to make your product stand out...When it's the same shit you've been criticizing all this time.
 

Your Weird Fetish

Intersectional fetishist
kiwifarms.net
I really hope this kills any of that "GOT is better than Lord of the Rings cause MUH realism, muh Aragorn Tax Policy, I hate chosen one narratives and cliches blah blah, this isn't a Disney movie" discourse because if you're ending the story with the one character not related to politics at all as the king, then you've just shown your true colors as a phony desperate to make your product stand out...When it's the same shit you've been criticizing all this time.
It won't because this is the dumb show and not the pretty good books. I don't know why GRRM's comment gets taken so personally. He didn't mean it as a criticism of LOTR and that's pretty clear in context. It was just a declaration of different tastes and aims.

In reality it's an apples to oranges comparison. Unless GRRM never finishes in which case Tolkien is clearly inherently superior to GRRM.

EDIT: There is one comment he made that was directly criticizing LOTR that I'm surprised doesn't get bitched about more. He outright said multiple times that, to him, it was a mistake for Gandalf to return to life. That he should have stayed dead after Moria.
 
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verissimus

kiwifarms.net
I personally don't even understand wth exactly Martin was trying to do in the first place. I hear people talk about how he wanted to "combat the fantasy tropes", and it seems pretty clear he wants to add some sense of realism/the mundane (that is de-emphasize the fantasy side of things), but if you're going to do either what's the point? Why would you go into writing a series, never mind a book, just because you don't like seeing good vs. evil in a fantasy story for example? Like what else are you supposed to do in that kind of setting that's supposed to be interesting or moving and mind you do while embracing the genre that you're writing about?

This honestly leads me to believe Martin doesn't actually really know or care what he's doing because the impression I get from some of his comments especially the ones that were part of that Rolling Stones interview talking about Aragorn's tax policy, is that he seems more concerned about the lore, history, and perhaps say the mechanics of his fantasy story (and by mechanics I mean say how X, say dragons, if available effects and influences the world around them). than providing a general straight forward narrative the audience can care about. Because if the show is any (and I mean any) indication of things, it seems pretty clear the fantasy side of things, white walkers, all the prophecies, etc. don't really matter. In fact, really nothing seems to matter that much because guess what the characters go back to doing? Killing themselves over who gets to sit in the iron throne. And surely someone might respond, well that's the point. It's a tragic story, to which I say, why would you spend this amount of time then just to deliver a tragic story or try making us believe it wouldn't be one? You mean to tell me you couldn't shorten the overall story to a few characters, houses and historical tidbits that will actually matter to the plot just to arrive to your goal? Like how is this ok with folks? It's one thing to accept a tragic story. That's not hard to do especially when it's fairly short and sweet, but it's another thing entirely to accept one where, you lead us to believe maybe such and such characters will fix things or at least mitigate the damage done by say their forebears, only for that likely not being the case. In fact, if we're going to go by the show we clearly not going to get that since Daenerys has clearly gone further than her own father, Tywin Lannister, Ramsay and Roose Bolton, Cersei, and Walder Frey combined. Seven seasons of the character pretending she might be an ok ruler, only to piss all over that just because we need a tragic ending.
 
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