Game of Thrones Thread -

Rumpled Foreskin

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My favorite part of the trailer, is when John snow is very clearly talking about the undead and their lack of humanity et al, and it cuts to Circe. Excellent stuff.
an interesting hypothesis I’ve come across is littlefinger hiring a faceless man to take his place. If littlefinger is indeed a hero,I wonder what his place will be
 
I've been watching this from the beginning, and I'll watch this next season as it airs, I'm sure. But now I'm gonna complain about a bunch of stuff, because that's what I do.

The sand snakes - this plot was so fucking stupid from start to finish. Oh fun, action girls with dumb weapons, in badly choreographed fights. But whatever. The bigger issue was the plot with them. So what's his face gets his head crushed in a duel he voluntarily entered. His dumb girlfriend is mad that the king, her lover's brother, won't take revenge for this. So the dumb girlfriend and some dumb kids just up and murder the king, and his one loyal bodyguard. Then they leave the fucking country. Also they murder the dude's nephew, and the girl, something the Obryn himself said he was against (Child murder is sort of what he was so mad about in the first place). None of this made any sense.

Cirsei - Remember when the people were rioting while Joffrey was king, throwing shit at him? Yet this crazy woman blew up their church, after having the church destroy all the entertainment in town, openly is fucking her brother... and the peasants are cool with this?

The Tyrells - So they just kinda forgot to have an army? Oops, we're super fucking rich but have no protection, nobody noticed up to this point. Yet the tyrells defecting to the lannisters earlier was a big deal, because they brought their army.

Euron - So the dumb fuck pirate rapist hillbillies decide to make theon the king, as their king was murdered. Theon says nah, it should be yara. Everyone's on board after impressive speeches. Then Euron shows up, announces he murdered the king, says he's gonna do Yara's plan, except better, and the morons all fall in line behind the dude who murdered the king and chopped his own dude's tongues out. What?‽

Battle of the bastards - Why is Sansa such a fucking idiot here? Why keep the coming reinforcements a secret when you're trying to convince Jon not to attack yet? Why can't Rickon zigzag? How fucking stupid is Jon Snow? The mountain of corpses was so idiotic. Why on earth didn't they have the giant bring a tree trunk? That would have solved the phalynx problem immediately. Why the fuck would they just stand there like morons while the enemy marches their fucking flanks right by them? There's a reason nobody would ever do that, and it's because doing that is walking into double envelopment yourself! Then, why on earth does the calvalry just do a frontal charge, instead of going after the archers in the back? Sure, Jon's archers have trenches dug around them, but Ramsey's don't. Then, they get rescued by littlefinger, whose magic horses gladly charge into a spear wall and just knock them down like dominos. Whatever, that's fine. So then the giant busts down the gate, they go in, kill the archers, battle's over! Then Ramsey apparently just kinda saunters out, aims his bow, and shoots the giant in the eye. Wow, good thing he didn't just shoot Jon there huh? How exactly did everyone miss him? Can the armies only see what's on camera?

Jamie - Shouldn't he be kinda mad that Cersie just murdered a fucking shitload of people? He kinda sorta famously murdered the king he was protecting because he was going to do exactly that.


Clearly once they got past the books, and where they diverged from the books, the plots were weak or completely nonsensical. So I don't have high hopes for the new season, but I'll watch it anyway.
 

Absolutego

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Jamie - Shouldn't he be kinda mad that Cersie just murdered a fucking shitload of people? He kinda sorta famously murdered the king he was protecting because he was going to do exactly that.
We're three seasons past book content and Jaime is only just NOW beginning to catch up to his book character's development.

I'll enjoy this final season from a "watching an ongoing disaster" perspective but I really hope GRRM, provided he ever finishes his magnum opus, takes a vastly different direction with the conclusion of the books.
 
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Miang

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The show lost any sense of realpolitik once it outpaced the books, so that's why you get things like Varys teleporting everywhere the plot needs him, armies and fleets no longer requiring any time to mobilize and travel, and bloody coups of government causing no mention of unrest or instability. I can't totally blame HBO for that, and yet I also do. Details that a doorstopper book can introduce at its own leisure and give you a sense of how events radiate throughout the setting get tossed pretty quickly when they run up against the demands of a hit TV show...but the show did use to have a surprising amount of fidelity for that detail, and I don't think it would have been as successful without it, so its decline (and more recent absence) in the later seasons is distressingly noticeable. Now GOT feels like a theme park version of what it was - something meant purely for those unbearable Burlington Bar reaction videos.

Even so, it's been a ride, and I'll be curious to see how it ends and if it gives us any hints on the actual ending planned for the books. Either way, I am absolutely expecting them to whack Tyrion for maximum shock value.
 
The show lost any sense of realpolitik once it outpaced the books, so that's why you get things like Varys teleporting everywhere the plot needs him, armies and fleets no longer requiring any time to mobilize and travel, and bloody coups of government causing no mention of unrest or instability. I can't totally blame HBO for that, and yet I also do. Details that a doorstopper book can introduce at its own leisure and give you a sense of how events radiate throughout the setting get tossed pretty quickly when they run up against the demands of a hit TV show...but the show did use to have a surprising amount of fidelity for that detail, and I don't think it would have been as successful without it, so its decline (and more recent absence) in the later seasons is distressingly noticeable. Now GOT feels like a theme park version of what it was - something meant purely for those unbearable Burlington Bar reaction videos.

Even so, it's been a ride, and I'll be curious to see how it ends and if it gives us any hints on the actual ending planned for the books. Either way, I am absolutely expecting them to whack Tyrion for maximum shock value.
Yeah, previously, before outpacing the books, it at least felt like the results of various machinations could have happened.

The king's brother's concubine and his bastard daughters murdering the king and prince and then there being no consequences was stupid.

At this point, anything could happen. The lannister army could arrive in dorne, raze the place to the ground, at the same time as repelling an assault on king's landing, while euron's fleet simultaneously routs the combined armies of the 7 kingdoms AND chases down several other ships between scenes. Nothing is based on logic or cause and effect anymore. It's like a murder mystery but at the end it was some completely unrelated thing that you never saw in the story. What the fuck is the point, it's just stuff happening at random.
 
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Rumpled Foreskin

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i kind of think Arya killed Jaqan whilst Jaqan was playing little finger. She named him, and even if a debt was paid, a mans name was spoken.
 

darkhorse816

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The sand snakes - this plot was so fucking stupid from start to finish. Oh fun, action girls with dumb weapons, in badly choreographed fights. But whatever. The bigger issue was the plot with them. So what's his face gets his head crushed in a duel he voluntarily entered. His dumb girlfriend is mad that the king, her lover's brother, won't take revenge for this. So the dumb girlfriend and some dumb kids just up and murder the king, and his one loyal bodyguard. Then they leave the fucking country. Also they murder the dude's nephew, and the girl, something the Obryn himself said he was against (Child murder is sort of what he was so mad about in the first place). None of this made any sense.

Cirsei - Remember when the people were rioting while Joffrey was king, throwing shit at him? Yet this crazy woman blew up their church, after having the church destroy all the entertainment in town, openly is fucking her brother... and the peasants are cool with this?

The Tyrells - So they just kinda forgot to have an army? Oops, we're super fucking rich but have no protection, nobody noticed up to this point. Yet the tyrells defecting to the lannisters earlier was a big deal, because they brought their army.

Euron - So the dumb fuck pirate rapist hillbillies decide to make theon the king, as their king was murdered. Theon says nah, it should be yara. Everyone's on board after impressive speeches. Then Euron shows up, announces he murdered the king, says he's gonna do Yara's plan, except better, and the morons all fall in line behind the dude who murdered the king and chopped his own dude's tongues out. What?‽
Jamie - Shouldn't he be kinda mad that Cersie just murdered a fucking shitload of people? He kinda sorta famously murdered the king he was protecting because he was going to do exactly that.


Clearly once they got past the books, and where they diverged from the books, the plots were weak or completely nonsensical. So I don't have high hopes for the new season, but I'll watch it anyway.
So the Sandsnakes in the books were much cooler, threatening, and had personality.

As for Cersei it’s easy to suppress peasants when you have a zombified Mountain and murderous Little Birds lead by a necromancer by your side.

Maybe the Tyrell’s army was killed offscreen or defected since they have no heir.

The Iron Islands are notoriously sexist and very backwards so of course they’d side with Euron over a woman no matter how qualified she is.

And as for Jaime, he’s in a very codependent relationship with Cersei. And kinslaying is considered just as bad as kingslaying, and Jaime doesn’t want to go down that road again. He’s afraid to leave her because he’s so far up her pussy, and he wants to help her out of duty as a Kingsguard, and love.
 
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Mammamia in Naziland

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The sand snakes
The Dorne plot from Season 4 onwards was never intended to be filmed in the first place, the showrunners (who actually after the Red Wedding I feel already let go of the series, at least mentally) changed their minds once Indira Varma was casted and seeing the impression she made on the audience when she goes apeshit upon seeing Oberyn's skull squished. Being enamored with her, they hastily wrote a Dorne subplot for the following season in a very late stage of the pre-production, but still with the intention of including the "Vengeance. Justice. Fire & Blood" twist. This is corroborated by promo pics of Doran and interviews of Siddig, who furthermore also stated that he had a contract for at least four episodes in season 6, only to end up being lamely killed off in the first episode.

So the whole Dorne subplot went from not existing at all to be first shoehorned in season 5 and then completely rewritten in season 6. This affected in turn the quality of the screen-writing, and because of the time costraints and their fixation on filming in the Alcazar in Seville, in which as an UNESCO site it is forbidden to film on night, or to leave filming equipment overnight, and allows only a skeleton-crew at a time when some filming is involved, they ended up with those ludicrous fight sequences in the gardens at noon, while they were originally supposed to be a close-quarter skirmish in the narrow corridors at midnight. And a ton of other problems with that plot.

On the subject, and the more general tendency of the showrunners to bend the plot and write scenes specifically for the actors they personally like, particularly with the aim of making them 'emote', i.e. staring wordlessly at the camera, there is a whole series of ranty and borderline spergy videos (and people complain about MauLer!) by A Dragon Demands, one of the admins of the ASoIaF Wiki. But they are well researched, can be easily played at 1.75 speed and most of the slides do not necessarily require a voice-over commentary, so you can just skim on them in ten or so minutes.
Here's the first about Dorne, if anyone's interested:

 

RomanesEuntDomus

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The show lost any sense of realpolitik once it outpaced the books, so that's why you get things like Varys teleporting everywhere the plot needs him, armies and fleets no longer requiring any time to mobilize and travel, and bloody coups of government causing no mention of unrest or instability. I can't totally blame HBO for that, and yet I also do. Details that a doorstopper book can introduce at its own leisure and give you a sense of how events radiate throughout the setting get tossed pretty quickly when they run up against the demands of a hit TV show...but the show did use to have a surprising amount of fidelity for that detail, and I don't think it would have been as successful without it, so its decline (and more recent absence) in the later seasons is distressingly noticeable. Now GOT feels like a theme park version of what it was - something meant purely for those unbearable Burlington Bar reaction videos.

Even so, it's been a ride, and I'll be curious to see how it ends and if it gives us any hints on the actual ending planned for the books. Either way, I am absolutely expecting them to whack Tyrion for maximum shock value.
Yeah, the Realpolitik aspects and the logistics behind traveling of even just individuals was one of the strong aspects of the show in the past.
Now, the world feels so small and limited. Entire armies teleport around the entire continent, where in the past, sending even just a messanger for half the distance would have been a harrowing task.

It's not yet dead to me, but the drop in quality is really starting to take its toll. S6 was good with a few stupid moments, S7 was overall ok, but there were some deep dips. I am genuinely afraid what they do in S8.

Worse still, the show used to be suspenseful, since "every character could die at any moment", now it is a clicheed show, just like every other fantasy series, where certain characters have infinite plot armor until the writers decide to kill them off for shock value.
There's a difference between a character being vulnerable and falling victim to betrayal or being outmaneuvered and killed in battle to just ending a character's arc with an axe for cheap shock value.

As for Cersei it’s easy to suppress peasants when you have a zombified Mountain and murderous Little Birds lead by a necromancer by your side.
Sorry, but having 10 Zombie Cleganes wouldn't be enough to subdue the inhabitants of King's Landing this much. Cersei blows up the Sept of Balor alongside their version of the pope (who was insanely popular amongst the regular people), killed hundreds if not thousands of people and is now non-chalantly fucking her own brother in front of her maids and retainers.

And the people of King's Landing don't seem to give a fuck.

and he wants to help her out of duty as a Kingsguard
Didn't stop Jamie when he stabbed the Mad King in the back and chopped his head off.

He seems not to take much issue with Cersei blowing up the entire nobility of King's Landing and a large part of the city, which also lead to his son killing himself.
Then again, all these noble families seemingly don't care either that some of their members got blown up.
 

darkhorse816

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Yeah, the Realpolitik aspects and the logistics behind traveling of even just individuals was one of the strong aspects of the show in the past.
Now, the world feels so small and limited. Entire armies teleport around the entire continent, where in the past, sending even just a messanger for half the distance would have been a harrowing task.

It's not yet dead to me, but the drop in quality is really starting to take its toll. S6 was good with a few stupid moments, S7 was overall ok, but there were some deep dips. I am genuinely afraid what they do in S8.

Worse still, the show used to be suspenseful, since "every character could die at any moment", now it is a clicheed show, just like every other fantasy series, where certain characters have infinite plot armor until the writers decide to kill them off for shock value.
There's a difference between a character being vulnerable and falling victim to betrayal or being outmaneuvered and killed in battle to just ending a character's arc with an axe for cheap shock value.


Sorry, but having 10 Zombie Cleganes wouldn't be enough to subdue the inhabitants of King's Landing this much. Cersei blows up the Sept of Balor alongside their version of the pope (who was insanely popular amongst the regular people), killed hundreds if not thousands of people and is now non-chalantly fucking her own brother in front of her maids and retainers.

And the people of King's Landing don't seem to give a fuck.


Didn't stop Jamie when he stabbed the Mad King in the back and chopped his head off.

He seems not to take much issue with Cersei blowing up the entire nobility of King's Landing and a large part of the city, which also lead to his son killing himself.
Then again, all these noble families seemingly don't care either that some of their members got blown up.
I’m going to just pretend Cersei did something, like massacred a bunch of smallfolk between the explosion and Jamie returning and that’s why everyone’s falling in line. Also I’m going to pretend that Varys can swim really fast because he lost his dick and the only reason Theon and the unsullied can’t is because they don’t believe.
 

RomanesEuntDomus

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I’m going to just pretend Cersei did something, like massacred a bunch of smallfolk between the explosion and Jamie returning and that’s why everyone’s falling in line.
That didn't stop them from going up against Joffrey. I can't find a fault with the rest of what you said, though.
 
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