GamerGate Philosophy, Meta, and Debate -

[Arctic]

Image is little to small, who was it?

Dyson.

... That's entirely too many.

Can sympathise just a bit with one of the last points in the first bit though: it's so aggravating to see characters that SHOULD be praised by people supposedly concerned about representation just getting ignored. Probably because they contradict the sjws merely by existing.

Fun fact: I remember when I was still oblivious to the rise of social justice or the issues with Anita Sarkeesian, after seeing her first whinefest about how Mario hates women or something I actually sent a naive, polite little pm to someone who claimed to want "discussion" about whether any of the examples of stronger female characters would be brought up (like say, Wendy, Captain Syrup, even Peach had her moments)

of course it was ignored. Some discussion, eh?

It still eludes my why people, great people, still take Anita Sarkeesian seriously. I'm not just talking about the history of scams, the whole Tropes vs Women in Games project is academically worthless. It was crowdfunded to point out sexism in video games, so that's what happens, regardless of whether it's really harmful or actually even exists. It's confirmation bias in its purest and most obvious form.

 

[CatParty]

View attachment 8750

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...targets_gawker_online_misogyny_levels_up.html

 

[Foulmouth]

So if I make a post pointing out that all of you fuckers are just jacking it and pretending vidya advertising is a civil rights infringement it's gonna get deleted right ?

Edit -Delete my first post and leave this one ?
Fuck me drunk null/katsu you really are childish motherfuckers !
Eat my shit .The pair of you should just get down to hardcore buttsex, everyone on the forums been wondering when It'll happen anyway.

 

[Watcher]

But shatfarty has a point, nobody here is posting the autistic retardation from the pro-gg side of the slapfight.

Let's start comparing pro-GG to anti-GG

The main problem I have with Catparty's bait posts and attempts at "making the argument more neutral" is that it really isn't. The pro-GG people everyone is bringing up have absolutely no power in the movement.

Homer has absolutely no power, nobody cares about him. Bringing up his statements are irrelevant because nobody reads them. Sure they're funny but comparing Homer's statements to the people on the Pro-GG side is night and day. It's like using A-Log or Rika as a shining example of people who troll Chris.

Here is a pro-GG person who also happens to be the Executive Director of Cloud Computing at Dell. The company that made 56 billion dollars last year

Spoiler

By comparison, this is what pro-GG individuals are doing

Spoiler

Spoiler

Now let's compare. The pro-GG people are creating charities and are attempting to help individuals and you're judging them based on... Homer and some statements made in this thread.

As well posting bait in this thread does absolutely nothing, all it does is provoke and derail the thread. You're not going to accomplish anything by doing this, all that will happen is your posts will get deleted and the subject will resume.

If you wish to present an argument with less hostility by all means. But this isn't a black and white issue and don't presume everyone on every side is under the age of 30, has never had sex and is entirely in this for selfish reasons. And please use better tactics then this to make your point.

Spoiler

 

[CatParty]

Let's start comparing pro-GG to anti-GG

The main problem I have with Catparty's bait posts and attempts at "making the argument more neutral" is that it really isn't. The pro-GG people everyone is bringing up have absolutely no power in the movement.

Homer has absolutely no power, nobody cares about him. Bringing up his statements are irrelevant because nobody reads them. Sure they're funny but comparing Homer's statements to the people on the Pro-GG side is night and day. It's like using A-Log or Rika as a shining example of people who troll Chris.

Here is a pro-GG person who also happens to be the Executive Director of Cloud Computing at Dell. The company that made 56 billion dollars last year

Spoiler

View attachment 8751

By comparison, this is what pro-GG individuals are doing

Spoiler

View attachment 8752

Spoiler

View attachment 8753

Now let's compare. The pro-GG people are creating charities and are attempting to help individuals and you're judging them based on... Homer and some statements made in this thread.

As well posting bait in this thread does absolutely nothing, all it does is provoke and derail the thread. You're not going to accomplish anything by doing this, all that will happen is your posts will get deleted and the subject will resume.

If you wish to present an argument with less hostility by all means. But this isn't a black and white issue and don't presume everyone on every side is under the age of 30, has never had sex and is entirely in this for selfish reasons. And please use better tactics then this to make your point.

Spoiler

View attachment 8754

http://www.buzzfeed.com/katienotopoulos/14-cats-having-a-bad-day-but-not-because-of-gamergate


http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...controversy/xECCZWG7hXnsO4qk0RDJIP/story.html


http://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...ale-gamers-why-havent-men-in-tech-spoken-out/


http://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/the-disturbing-misogynist-history-of-gamergates-g


http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/se...-video-game-culture-/5437df2b78c90a43d9000be8

 

[Redcloak]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/katienotopoulos/14-cats-having-a-bad-day-but-not-because-of-gamergate

That's the most unbiased article on GG I've ever seen. I like it!

 

[BT 075]

The main problem I have with Catparty's bait posts and attempts at "making the argument more neutral" is that it really isn't. The pro-GG people everyone is bringing up have absolutely no power in the movement.

That's a bit of a No True Scotsman thing, isn't it? Fact of the matter is that they exist, that there are quite a few of them and that they are quite loud and vocal. The people crying about "gaymer culture is under attack u guise OMG!!1!" are definitely there. They are involved with the movement, and so they are mentioned. Now as for them not having power or being unknown... who cares? I never knew who Brianna Wu and those other faggots were until I visited this thread. But I did know who Homer was, and I've seen enough of the internet to know that he's not alone in his opinions.

 

[Foulmouth]

Seriously, I play and enjoy vidya but for fucks sake, in this thread there's sad cunts saying "vidya = food and shelter".
I may have been rude as fuck previously but I'm gonna try and be clear now.
gg is about FUCK ALL !!!
It is NOT a civil rights movement, you have NOT been fucked over.
If YOU choose to get angry over vidya advertising IT IS YOUR FUCKING OWN OPINION !!
Sure, some slag may have fucked some reviewers, WHO GIVES A SHIT ?
If you like a game what else matters ?
I sort of apologise for calling people cocksuckers earlier(actually I don't but politeness calls for it0
But seriously, You are not changing the world,you are not fighting for "gamers" rights, you are fucking JACKING IT !!
I admit, If You are young and have no life vidya may take on an innapropriate perspective but that just means you should GET OUTSIDE MORE !
Seriously, You people may take this shit seriously but to the real world its nothing/bullshit. You are wasting your time.

 

[MayMay]

Doesn't really help that half of anti-GG's argument is based on mainly complete made-up bullshit spread by people who're out to cover their own asses.

 

[CatParty]

Doesn't really help that half of anti-GG's argument is based on mainly complete made-up bullshit spread by people who're out to cover their own asses.

the same can be said for the pro side too especially if one is looking at the situation from an unbiased standpoint

 

[Watcher]

That's a bit of a No True Scotsman thing, isn't it? Fact of the matter is that they exist,

I never claimed they did not exist or not, I stated comparing them doesn't prove anything because their arguments aren't on equal footing. You're comparing some random people nobody cares about and people who post anonymously, to people who run massive corporations and have careers spanning more than 10 years in journalism.

Now as for them not having power or being unknown... who cares? I never knew who Brianna Wu and those other faggots were until I visited this thread.

Brianna Wu was featured on television, her voice is more "trusted" by mainstream press than any of the pro-GG crowd.

But I did know who Homer were, and I've seen enough of the internet to know that he's not alone in his opinions.

My point is attempting to shift the topic of the thread toward neutrality is ineffective because the people in this debate aren't on neutral footing. You're comparing someone who has zero power and zero presence to someone who has a great deal of power and a great deal of influence in the debate. All saying "Hey' lets shift the focus onto guys like Homer" does is say "hey Homer is just as important in this as anyone else" and completely ignore the fact nobody in the movement cares about him and he doesn't represent anyone. Meanwhile the anti-gg crowd has gone out of their way to threaten to fire people who simply talk about this.

 

[Watcher]

Seriously, I play and enjoy vidya but for fucks sake, in this thread there's sad cunts saying "vidya = food and shelter".
I may have been rude as fuck previously but I'm gonna try and be clear now.
If you like a game what else matters ?
I sort of apologise for calling people cocksuckers earlier(actually I don't but politeness calls for it0
But seriously, You are not changing the world,you are not fighting for "gamers" rights, you are fucking JACKING IT !!
I admit, If You are young and have no life vidya may take on an innapropriate perspective but that just means you should GET OUTSIDE MORE !
Seriously, You people may take this shit seriously but to the real world its nothing/bullshit. You are wasting your time.

I addressed all this in a post I made like 20 pages back
http://cwckiforums.com/threads/gamergate-shitstorm-ii.5742/page-16#post-392525

And yes I know "guys we should all just talk about video games". Nothing would give me more pleasure than to talk about video games. But the fact of the matter is if you don't talk about this, these people get their way. They're a very loud minority and unfortunately they have already made a lot of traction. Tim Schafer stated people should watch Anita Sarkeesian's videos, the same person who got hired as a consultant on Mirror's Edge 2. I'm not saying anyone should or should not do anything, just please avoid insulting people who choose to discuss it. We're all friends here, let's try to stay that way.

The tagline of the forums is "no shit is too minor". I'm glad the thread was moved out of lolcow, now lets continue talking about the subject at hand.

gg is about FUCK ALL !!!
It is NOT a civil rights movement, you have NOT been fucked over.

Never claimed it was a "civil rights movement", like at all.

If YOU choose to get angry over vidya advertising IT IS YOUR FUCKING OWN OPINION !!
Sure, some slag may have fucked some reviewers, WHO GIVES A SHIT ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_ethics_and_standards

While various existing codes have some differences, most share common elements including the principles of—truthfulness, accuracy, objectivity, impartiality, fairness and public accountability—as these apply to the acquisition of newsworthy information and its subsequent dissemination to the public.

While you might say "it doesn't matter ITS FUCKING VIDEO GAMES" video games are the most profitable entertainment medium in the world. I'm sorry if video game journalism has been shit for 20 years but you don't change things by sitting around and saying "wouldn't it be great if things were better?"

But seriously, You are not changing the world,you are not fighting for "gamers" rights, you are fucking JACKING IT !!

Gawker has lost advertisers, numerous ones. They're very likely going to go out of buisiness. All that has happened in this debate is consumers are putting their money where their mouth is.

I admit, If You are young and have no life vidya may take on an innapropriate perspective but that just means you should GET OUTSIDE MORE !
Seriously, You people may take this shit seriously but to the real world its nothing/bullshit. You are wasting your time.

 

[BT 075]

I never claimed they did not exist or not, I stated comparing them doesn't prove anything because their arguments aren't on equal footing. You're comparing some random people nobody cares about and people who post anonymously, to people who run massive corporations and have careers spanning more than 10 years in journalism.

This thread was officially started in the Lolcow board to laugh at people attacking GamerGate. It was moved, by my suggestion, to Games. That was a good move because you guys are so focused on one side you ignore Lolcows on what I believe is "your side". If you make a thread in Lolcow about a shitstorm taking place, least you could do is laugh at fools on both sides. If you sweep spergs in your camp under the rug and only highlight spergs on the side you are against, that's kinda lame IMO. It makes it seem like you don't wanna see those rotten apples and prefer to forget they even exist.

Brianna Wu was featured on television, her voice is more "trusted" by mainstream press than any of the pro-GG crowd.

I doubt that very much. I have seen Brianna Wu and Brianna Wu's haircut makes her look like she sleeps under bridges. No one I know would take such a person seriously. Plus she looks like Rika. How is she "mainstream"? Maybe on Tumblr she's mainstream but certainly not outside of it.

My point is attempting to shift the topic of the thread toward neutrality is ineffective because the people in this debate aren't on neutral footing. You're comparing someone who has zero power and zero presence to someone who has a great deal of power and a great deal of influence in the debate. All saying "Hey' lets shift the focus onto guys like Homer" does is say "hey Homer is just as important in this as anyone else" and completely ignore the fact nobody in the movement cares about him and he doesn't represent anyone. Meanwhile the anti-gg crowd has gone out of their way to threaten to fire people who simply talk about this.

They don't have to be on equal footing for you to laugh at some of the people on the pro-side.

 

[Foulmouth]

I addressed all this in a post I made like 20 pages back
http://cwckiforums.com/threads/gamergate-shitstorm-ii.5742/page-16#post-392525


Never claimed it was a "civil rights movement", like at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_ethics_and_standards

While you might say "it doesn't matter ITS FUCKING VIDEO GAMES" video games are the most profitable entertainment medium in the world. I'm sorry if video game journalism has been shit for 20 years but you don't change things by sitting around and saying "wouldn't it be great if things were better?"

Gawker has lost advertisers, numerous ones. They're very likely going to go out of buisiness. All that has happened in this debate is consumers are putting their money where their mouth is.

No offence but I didn't read your post, I honestly don't care, I was just trying to give you fuckers a reality check.

 

[Watcher]

This thread was officially started in the Lolcow board to laugh at people attacking GamerGate. It was moved, by my suggestion, to Games. That was a good move because you guys are so focused on one side you ignore Lolcows on what I believe is "your side". If you make a thread in Lolcow about a shitstorm taking place, least you could do is laugh at fools on both sides. If you sweep spergs in your camp under the rug and only highlight spergs on the side you are against, that's kinda lame IMO. It makes it seem like you don't wanna see those rotten apples and prefer to forget they even exist.

Great, why are you still posting in this thread? It was moved to lolcow, the job is done. Move on.

I understand you don't care at all about this but you're constantly derailing the thread to tell people that.

I doubt that very much. I have seen Brianna Wu and Brianna Wu's haircut makes her look like she sleeps under bridges. No one I know would take such a person seriously. Plus she looks like Rika. How is she "mainstream"? Maybe on Tumblr she's mainstream but certainly not outside of it.

 

[Arctic]

No offence but I didn't read your post, I honestly don't care, I was just trying to give you fuckers a reality check.

Dude, just because you don't give a fuck about Game Journos doesn't mean that everything GG is doing is useless. If you don't care about anything that GG is involved in just don't post in this thread. GG never claimed to be a civil rights movement either, don't know where you got that from.

Anyway, I'm pro-GG, but using this thread to make fun of pro GG people and arguments is fine by me. We really don't need more echo chambers on the internet and some people like KingOfPol really shouldn't be ignored.

 

[MayMay]

"I DON'T CARE!"

"HEY, I DON'T CARE!"

"LOOK AT ME NOT CARING, NOPE TOTALLY DON'T CARE."

"MAN I CAN'T GET OVER HOW MUCH I DON'T CARE THAT'S WHY I KEEP COMING BACK ALL THE TIME CAUSE I DON'T CARE!"

 

[Foulmouth]

"I DON'T CARE!"

"HEY, I DON'T CARE!"

"LOOK AT ME NOT CARING, NOPE TOTALLY DON'T CARE."

"MAN I CAN'T GET OVER HOW MUCH I DON'T CARE THAT'S WHY I KEEP COMING BACK ALL THE TIME CAUSE I DON'T CARE!"

Fuck me, you really are a faggot/lesbian aren't you ?
Do you have any actual response to the words I used or are you a chatbot ?

 

[Null]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/katienotopoulos/14-cats-having-a-bad-day-but-not-because-of-gamergate


http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...controversy/xECCZWG7hXnsO4qk0RDJIP/story.html


http://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...ale-gamers-why-havent-men-in-tech-spoken-out/


http://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/the-disturbing-misogynist-history-of-gamergates-g


http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/se...-video-game-culture-/5437df2b78c90a43d9000be8

You just quoted snide opinion columns featuring cats as evidence that GamerGate is about sexism and harassment. You're not earning any friends right now. This isn't what I meant by well constructed arguments. Throwing clickbait links (especially buzzfeed, jesus fucking christ) into a post and pressing send doesn't convince anyone.

Foulmouth's post isn't great either, but it makes an effort. Criticizing people for being overzealous is an acceptable thing to do. To quote what I said in chat:
It's an artistic medium that people enjoy. They have a right to be upset over shittier aspects of it.
I don't think many people are calling it a revolution.
If they are, they're kids swept up in the momentum, like with Operation Chanology. They thought they could kill Scientology and save the world.


When roger ebert and gene siskel started their television program At the Movies, the most frequent criticism levied at them personally was: "Why put time, effort, energy, passion, and money into criticizing harmless entertainment?" Their reasoning was that movies were a reflection of culture. What movies came out, how they were produced, what they focused on, and what movies did well said a lot about the industry and our society as a whole. Games didn't exist back in their day and they didn't even really exist 10 years ago. It was a small thing for nerds with computers capable of playing them. Now most computers are built well enough to play the majority of games and modern day engines are so heavily optimized, a walmart laptop can usually run them. My point is that it isn't an exclusionary medium and the fact my 4 year old cousin was playing Angry Birds on her iPad years ago speaks volumes.

Criticizing games journalists for bias, and being angry at shit like GameInformer running a rating system that considers a 7.5 score "average" appears reasonable to me. The industry generates $100,000,000,000 a year and it's no longer for little kids. People who play games, who are now grown fucking adults, are sort-of pissed that their medium is represented by shitty companies like Gawker who haven't evolved pass the days of Nintendo Power and still write all their articles like they're a Toys'R'Us catalog. The men and women who are today's consumers feel that sort of thing leaves something to be desired.

There's a website called Christian Centered Gaming which scores games based on their merits, and then a second score for their moral measurement. A game like South Park: Stick of Truth scores a 75% (as in, better than average) but gets a 0% of the morality meter because of the things it has player do. This is an acceptable way of introducing and disclosing bias into a review. Gawker will admonish a good game for not being Social Justice enough, and then praise a bad game because they fucked the developer. That sort of thing is pretty shitty and should be discouraged. When Gawker was presented with this evidence they told people to fuck off and insulted them. This is why GamerGate focuses so heavily on them.

Also this thread is shit and everyone whining is a fucking retard. Kill yourselves.

 

[Watcher]

Fuck me, you really are a faggot/lesbian aren't you ?
Do you have any actual response to the words I used or are you a chatbot ?

No offence but I didn't read your post