go back to mom net and stop invading the forums, Kathy. we know it's you.
so I've never heard of this site before this thread. is there any recommended link to a good chimpout or drama I can bide the wee hours with?
Gender Critical Feminism -
- Thread starter Spinster
- Start date
so I've never heard of this site before this thread. is there any recommended link to a good chimpout or drama I can bide the wee hours with?
I would happily offer my unfiltered thoughts about gender critical feminists, TERFs, whatever you wanna call them, if it wasn't for all the TERFs already on this forum who brigade and downvote anyone who does criticize GCFs virtually anywhere on this forum. This kind of dogpiling behaviour is the very reason GCFs started getting banned on Twitter, but anyone who brings up this simple fact (which GCFs are in denial about) is immediately targeted by them. It's because of this kind of targeted downvoting that I stopped posting on the TERFs thread, I should have heeded the "plagued" warning. I have placed most of these TERFs on my ignore list, but they are absolutely patroling threads here on the forum to make sure that any comment criticizing GCFs is downvoted. I wish more people who have experienced this targeting from TERFs on the forum would speak out about it. SJW troons have an attitude of "you are either with us or you are with the terrorists", but so do TERFs. The horseshoe theory is definitely at work here. I would also appreciate it if GCFs would stop lying about troons being the only ones who post violent threats in the social media. Just the other day I found this tweet from a Canadian TERF:
You know what would have happened if a troon posted a tweet saying: "I am more and more likely to kick a TERF in the face with each violation of our rights". It's the horseshoe theory at work.
You know what would have happened if a troon posted a tweet saying: "I am more and more likely to kick a TERF in the face with each violation of our rights". It's the horseshoe theory at work.
I'm not sure if I can really contribute much more to this discussion but the way I see it, trans individuals have as much right to express their ideology as anyone else. However the inability to accept any kind of criticism prevents the ideology from evolving in a healthy way. If the ideology can't adapt, it can not grow/survive.
MarvinTheParanoidAndroid
This will all end in tears, I just know it.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I'm of the opinion that there are two camps to gender dysphoria: real OG transgender people and trendsgender people. Anyone with Tumblr experience will know that there is a huge schism between the two and the latter will call the former 'truscum' for suggesting that gender dysphoria is not only real but can be proven with brain scans and such. Not every tranny is a sociopath looking to feed off of society like a vampire, take IronLiz for instance, former TGWTG alumni and one of the few to not have a thread, and fully transitioned and got a job as a police officer to boot.
Tasty Tatty
kiwifarms.net
Precisely that. That it's an ideology: something people like to believe in. It has zero scientific support and, to their sorrow, every single biological fact about gender contradicts their doctrines.
So... there. If you're a John and want to be called a Jane, fine: I'll call you Jane. But you aint' a woman and you never will.
What is "gender critical"? Feminists are pro-female and female is a gender. It has nothing to do with "identifying" and such. Gender and sex used to be synonymes.
Originally, sex was the only word for reproductive differences, and it meant only that. Gender meant something else. In the science of biology it means a category above species and races, how animals, plants etc. are classificated, something like "kindred". In linguistics, it meant noun genders aka grammatical genders, which are like calling unanimate objects he and she, what most European languages do. Then, "sex" got a second meaning, the act of procreating, so it became a dirty word that could lead to embarrassing misunderstandings and this was why schools, administration, the Church etc. then started to use the word "gender" instead. Since then gender and sex were synonymes, until in the 1970s when some "scientists" started to claim they were not. Up until the current decade they continued to be used as synonymes, both in scientific texts about them and informal everyday speech.
In my country we have only one native word for that and of course it has to do with something biological. Now, a lot of SJWs start using the English term "gender" instead, but they re-interpretate that again so every postmodern feminist can create his own definition of that word.
Originally, sex was the only word for reproductive differences, and it meant only that. Gender meant something else. In the science of biology it means a category above species and races, how animals, plants etc. are classificated, something like "kindred". In linguistics, it meant noun genders aka grammatical genders, which are like calling unanimate objects he and she, what most European languages do. Then, "sex" got a second meaning, the act of procreating, so it became a dirty word that could lead to embarrassing misunderstandings and this was why schools, administration, the Church etc. then started to use the word "gender" instead. Since then gender and sex were synonymes, until in the 1970s when some "scientists" started to claim they were not. Up until the current decade they continued to be used as synonymes, both in scientific texts about them and informal everyday speech.
In my country we have only one native word for that and of course it has to do with something biological. Now, a lot of SJWs start using the English term "gender" instead, but they re-interpretate that again so every postmodern feminist can create his own definition of that word.
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My views on the trans thing are complicated. I guess "truscum" is probably the closest. In theory, I take the view that if a person is or thinks they are trans, that's no skin off my nose, and I'll respect their name and pronouns. It doesn't really harm me.
However, what I object to is this strongly anti-intellectual have-your-cake-and-eat-it tendency of the trans movement, which demands total uncritical acceptance of anyone who claims they're trans, but is violently against anything that might lead a person to conclude that they are not trans. Any research into the trans condition, or at least anything that might not come out positively, is denounced as transphobic. Anyone who detransitions is shunned. Anyone who doesn't absolutely go along with the ideology is called a Nazi. In the current political climate, where a single wrong comment can cost a person their career, this is a serious issue.
This anti-intellectual anti-critical approach is a problem for two reasons. Firstly, there's the fact that an awful lot of people who are trans seem to have other issues. Autism seems to be incredibly common, as are mental illnesses and personality disorders. We see a lot of fetishists. Just about all of the troons with threads here are unsuccessful in relationships and professionally. Clearly "becoming the person they've always been" hasn't made them happy. All transitioning has given them is an excuse for failure. The notion that maybe gender dysphoria is not the issue is simply not allowed. More research is needed, but the trans movement rejects this in favour of a failed solution.
Secondly, transitioning is not something that should ever be undertaken lightly. Unlike most lifestyle choices, it has potentially irreversible health consequences, and the absolute best case scenario is that you'll look like your preferred gender. People shouldn't go down that path unless it is absolutely certain that this, and only this, will make them happy and functional. Based on the number of post-transition trans women who have threads here, I think it's safe to say that many of them don't do that.
I don't believe children should ever be transitioned until they're old enough to consent for themselves, and then I'd want to see some really rigorous psychological examination to rule out abuse or grooming.
And as for all that genderspecial stuff like agender, genderfluid or non-binary, that's a lifestyle choice and is not entitled to any special respect. Anyone who claims they got PTSD because someone didn't refer to them as "ze" is bullshitting.
This anti-intellectual anti-critical approach is a problem for two reasons. Firstly, there's the fact that an awful lot of people who are trans seem to have other issues. Autism seems to be incredibly common, as are mental illnesses and personality disorders. We see a lot of fetishists. Just about all of the troons with threads here are unsuccessful in relationships and professionally. Clearly "becoming the person they've always been" hasn't made them happy. All transitioning has given them is an excuse for failure. The notion that maybe gender dysphoria is not the issue is simply not allowed. More research is needed, but the trans movement rejects this in favour of a failed solution.
Secondly, transitioning is not something that should ever be undertaken lightly. Unlike most lifestyle choices, it has potentially irreversible health consequences, and the absolute best case scenario is that you'll look like your preferred gender. People shouldn't go down that path unless it is absolutely certain that this, and only this, will make them happy and functional. Based on the number of post-transition trans women who have threads here, I think it's safe to say that many of them don't do that.
I don't believe children should ever be transitioned until they're old enough to consent for themselves, and then I'd want to see some really rigorous psychological examination to rule out abuse or grooming.
And as for all that genderspecial stuff like agender, genderfluid or non-binary, that's a lifestyle choice and is not entitled to any special respect. Anyone who claims they got PTSD because someone didn't refer to them as "ze" is bullshitting.
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Sweetpeaa
kiwifarms.net
What's interesting is you don't really hear about the female to male transgenders at all. They don't act up like the other version. What's obviously irking some women is the male to female transgenders keep trying to convince them they don't really exist as a biological sex. ''Anyone can be a woman''. It is ridiculous.
Onto ''feminism''. Contrary to popular belief feminism was much more radical in the 1970's than today. There are very few women into the feminist movement outside of social media. You could argue the status of women in some western countries has actually begun to slip back a bit.
Onto ''feminism''. Contrary to popular belief feminism was much more radical in the 1970's than today. There are very few women into the feminist movement outside of social media. You could argue the status of women in some western countries has actually begun to slip back a bit.
Yeah it's the same difference between someone that is bipolar and in denial and someone that is deeply bipolar and in denial. They have the same mental problem but different magnitude and the former may deal with it in slightly less destructive ways.
Nobody gives a shit when you try a harder difficulty mode in life. There are no women breaking records anywhere now that they get to pretend they are men.
Wrong and autistic.
Sweetpeaa
kiwifarms.net
Apart from Chaz Bono have you ever heard about any prominent female to male trans people in the media?
How many prominent transwomen are in media, idiot
STFU we have @Null and autism, we will never fall!
I'm not a feminist by any metric, but I do think these "gender critical feminists" are more ideologically consistent than your average feminist. You can't claim to care about women or women's rights while ignoring situations where women are being harmed by men, even if those men put on a dress.
Sweetpeaa
kiwifarms.net
There has been reality shows on trans-women (I am jazz, I am Cait), trans-female athletes. Endless articles written about them, movies and television shows featuring them. They have influenced public policy, many countries have enacted all gender bathrooms to accommodate them.
They are indeed overexposed in comparison to the female to males which the media doesn't really have any interest in.
Transgenders telling biological females their gender is meaningless or doesn't really exist is actually a way to demean them. They are now able to access female spaces like public washrooms, change rooms and showers and in some countries moved into female prisons.
Here's my take: I know 3 people from very different walks of life who have de-transitioned - M - F - M. Their experience was dreadful, they were afraid to leave the house while transitioned and spent a lot of time staring at themselves in mirrors to see if they look like their perfect selves. They are incredibly self-conscious, constantly worry about everything with an awkward intensity, and have very little to offer socially. I can hurt their feelings by not being happy enough when I say hello or by not calling frequently enough for them to know someone cares.
I have listened to their transitioning stories and retained nothing past the fact they felt absolutely pressured to do this by all sides. They spent a lot of time talking with groups of supporters who made them feel like this was the right decision, and they have been ostracized since they decided this was a mistake. I feel defensive on their behalf, they don't know how to stand up for themselves. My sense is they never had much of a chance for their personalities to develop, the hormones they took left them not knowing how to feel about anything, and they look at themselves as subjects of an experiment more than real people.
One of them has attempted suicide more than once and can't get other necessary medical treatments because of the risk it will happen again. There's a good chance he will die from preventable causes before he's 40.
One of them lives in poverty and has had so many surgeries he looks like he was carved up by a butcher, the scars left his chest looking like ground beef. He sometimes bleeds randomly, he stuffs his shirt with dirty towels like maxi-pads.
One of them burned through a trust fund exploring his identity and ran several family businesses into the ground trying to create ethical / sustainable enterprises that were never going to work. He was strongly encouraged by the tranny mafia to break all relationships with his family and did so in the worst ways, getting his parents sued and his brother accused of criminal activities that ruined his career. This guy now lives like a pariah and it's not because he had implants.
I'd be a lot more accepting of trans-people were it not for the fact so many people want to pathologize criticism of the culture. I keep thinking about the Mark Twain quote on censorship, it's like being told you can't have a steak because a baby can't handle it. Honest and open discussion about the train wrecks needs to happen. If someone transitions and can't leave the house because the social anxiety is consuming them, that's not success. More importantly - it's not society's fault, it's the community of zealots that surround them. Too many fuckwits pretending to be victims so no one will acknowledge the downsides.
I have listened to their transitioning stories and retained nothing past the fact they felt absolutely pressured to do this by all sides. They spent a lot of time talking with groups of supporters who made them feel like this was the right decision, and they have been ostracized since they decided this was a mistake. I feel defensive on their behalf, they don't know how to stand up for themselves. My sense is they never had much of a chance for their personalities to develop, the hormones they took left them not knowing how to feel about anything, and they look at themselves as subjects of an experiment more than real people.
One of them has attempted suicide more than once and can't get other necessary medical treatments because of the risk it will happen again. There's a good chance he will die from preventable causes before he's 40.
One of them lives in poverty and has had so many surgeries he looks like he was carved up by a butcher, the scars left his chest looking like ground beef. He sometimes bleeds randomly, he stuffs his shirt with dirty towels like maxi-pads.
One of them burned through a trust fund exploring his identity and ran several family businesses into the ground trying to create ethical / sustainable enterprises that were never going to work. He was strongly encouraged by the tranny mafia to break all relationships with his family and did so in the worst ways, getting his parents sued and his brother accused of criminal activities that ruined his career. This guy now lives like a pariah and it's not because he had implants.
I'd be a lot more accepting of trans-people were it not for the fact so many people want to pathologize criticism of the culture. I keep thinking about the Mark Twain quote on censorship, it's like being told you can't have a steak because a baby can't handle it. Honest and open discussion about the train wrecks needs to happen. If someone transitions and can't leave the house because the social anxiety is consuming them, that's not success. More importantly - it's not society's fault, it's the community of zealots that surround them. Too many fuckwits pretending to be victims so no one will acknowledge the downsides.
There's way more, stupid. It's not "overexposure" if it's proportionate.
FTM's are crazy too is the point.
I think we are in agreement there. Generally speaking these places are gender segregated for a good reason, and I'm not of the opinion that simply identifying as something makes you that thing.
This "separate but equal" doctrine for genders will likely become a Supreme Court issue in the coming decades.
Alot of this could due to how society idealizes the genders. The ideal man is kind, stoic and hard working. The ideal woman revels in drama and is the center of attention. She is comically empowered and in your face about it.
This "become a woman" stuff was created to combat gender roles. Now those old school feminists are eating their words.
Gender being a social construct that is separate from sex somehow lead to sex changes being justified... I just don't get it.
Similar threads
ft. r/GenderCritical & related reddits, Mancheeze, Cathy Brennan, GCDad, RadFHarva, Jamie Shupe, etc; "Gender Critical Feminism is Homophobic" - Cathy Brennan, 2019.
