EU General Election 2019, Brexit, and all things Britbong politics - No loicense required to post here!

Slimy Time

When you see the presents under the tree
kiwifarms.net
I think Farage and TBP spent their political capital on the MEP elections. Everyone I know who voted them in the euro election is planning Tory this time because that is how Brexit is going to get done.

The problem TBP has is they peaked then disappeared. They appeared to a fanfare with a whirlwind of media coverage and people flocking to them. They ate the UKIP vote and some of the Tory/Labour vote. Then tried to keep the momentum going in the by-election, lost, and the promptly disappeared (possibly media strategy to ignore them or them failing to live up to the promise of their initial fanfare). Farage has done a poor job keeping them in the national consciousness and that will hurt them.
Farage has always not been great at General Elections. This 500+ standing over some ultimatum will alienate some of his voters from his party. There were already signs of disagreement within his own party when he initially said the deal was shit. His own party members snapped back. The only ones who will be on board with this move would be the politically unsavvy who say things like "country loyalty over party loyalty" without looking at the numbers. This seems like an attempt to get him back into the news after disappearing post Euro elections.

The fact is his party is a single issue party, as have all the parties he has led. A very important issue, but single issue nonetheless. As important as Brexit is, people also have other concerns that need to be dealt with, be it the NHS, Crime, Housing and so on. Every time UKIP (and i would not be surprised if Brexit Party is the same) is pressed on these issues, their answers are never highlighted or pushed because all they seem to promote is their single issue. They will never be a major party in the UK outside of Brexit and will never have a real presence in the UK parliament.
 
Last edited:

Zaryiu

Nobody important
kiwifarms.net
Farage has always not been great at General Elections. This 500+ standing over some ultimatum will alienate some of his voters from his party. There were already signs of disagreement within his own party when he initially said the deal was shit. His own party members snapped back. The only ones who will be on board with this move would be the politically unsavvy who say things like "country loyalty over party loyalty" without looking at the numbers. This seems like an attempt to get him back into the news after disappearing post Euro elections.

The fact is his party is a single issue party, as have all the parties he has led. A very important issue, but single issue nonetheless. As important as Brexit is, people also have other concerns that need to be dealt with, be it the NHS, Crime, Housing and so on. Every time UKIP (and i would not be surprised if Brexit Party is the same) is pressed on these issues, their answers are never highlighted or pushed because all they seem to promote is their single issue. They will never be a major party in the UK outside of Brexit and will never have a real presence in the UK parliament.
So how long until he leaves this one? You know he will, it's a question of when
 

RisingPheonix

I came here to squark at you
kiwifarms.net
Farage has always not been great at General Elections. This 500+ standing over some ultimatum will alienate some of his voters from his party. There were already signs of disagreement within his own party when he initially said the deal was shit. His own party members snapped back. The only ones who will be on board with this move would be the politically unsavvy who say things like "country loyalty over party loyalty" without looking at the numbers. This seems like an attempt to get him back into the news after disappearing post Euro elections.

The fact is his party is a single issue party, as have all the parties he has led. A very important issue, but single issue nonetheless. As important as Brexit is, people also have other concerns that need to be dealt with, be it the NHS, Crime, Housing and so on. Every time UKIP (and i would not be surprised if Brexit Party is the same) is pressed on these issues, their answers are never highlighted or pushed because all they seem to promote is their single issue. They will never be a major party in the UK outside of Brexit and will never have a real presence in the UK parliament.
Part of the issue is that some people have latched onto the idea that Boris's deal is May's deal reheated - not entirely untrue, but I believe a lot of the wording in it basically gives the UK a lot more control on the transitional period than May's literal "roll over and be the EU's whipping boy for however long they want" deal May. But it's annoying when I see people literally put party before everything else. Even Trump said it would be better if Nigel worked with Boris, I think he thought that would leverage his bartering skill - but he got too greedy with the pitch.

The thing I'm *hoping* will happen is people will overall try to be tactical if they want Brexit. If they are from strong Labour areas and can't stomach Tory, they vote Brexit Party. If the area is already strong Tory, then stick with that. Independent/ Lib Dem/TIG (or whatever they are called now) is open season for everyone. Annoyingly I already see strong TBP types already putting party before nation, sigh.

I've also seen some people who seem to still believe Corbyn would deliver Brexit somehow despite pretty much every indication that Labour getting in would pretty much kill Brexit (sure Corbyn might be closet leaver but he's not got the moxie to go against a good majority of his party - that's reserved purely for attempts to kick him out of the leadership rank)

My voting area is strong conservative and the MP is in the ERG so no way I'm voting against them to risk a split.
 

Slimy Time

When you see the presents under the tree
kiwifarms.net
Part of the issue is that some people have latched onto the idea that Boris's deal is May's deal reheated - not entirely untrue, but I believe a lot of the wording in it basically gives the UK a lot more control on the transitional period than May's literal "roll over and be the EU's whipping boy for however long they want" deal May. But it's annoying when I see people literally put party before everything else. Even Trump said it would be better if Nigel worked with Boris, I think he thought that would leverage his bartering skill - but he got too greedy with the pitch.

The thing I'm *hoping* will happen is people will overall try to be tactical if they want Brexit. If they are from strong Labour areas and can't stomach Tory, they vote Brexit Party. If the area is already strong Tory, then stick with that. Independent/ Lib Dem/TIG (or whatever they are called now) is open season for everyone. Annoyingly I already see strong TBP types already putting party before nation, sigh.

I've also seen some people who seem to still believe Corbyn would deliver Brexit somehow despite pretty much every indication that Labour getting in would pretty much kill Brexit (sure Corbyn might be closet leaver but he's not got the moxie to go against a good majority of his party - that's reserved purely for attempts to kick him out of the leadership rank)

My voting area is strong conservative and the MP is in the ERG so no way I'm voting against them to risk a split.
And yet they levy the accusation of party before country at the other parties when the numbers just don't back them. It's humorous to watch members throw the accusation out then go ahead and fanatically follow what Farage says. Numbers are numbers and not splitting the vote it what matters if you want any form of Brexit done.

Reality is, if you want a Brexit, Boris has to win because Farage is a no hoper. He's been slack post Euro election in generating support. Whether Boris sticks with the deal as it is now or he changes parts/abandons it, you want it, BoJo has to get in. If you get Labour in, not only will Corbyn not deliver Brexit, but he will fuck the country into the dirt with some of his proposed policies. There will be economic flight if he gets in because he will make it completely untenable to continue here. He has policies like government requisitioning property that has been left unattended for 6 months to give to someone else...what? That's the level of control he wants to implement.

I have read somewhere that Boris' deal is wide enough that it is more in line with a Canada style deal...which is what Farage wanted him to have in the first place. I'm convinced that if this is not a bluff, then he's running on ego or jealousy at the fact that he is nowhere near this deal or the process of exiting the EU. If that is the case, then like most jealous people, if he can't have it his way, no one can.
 

Inquisitor_BadAss

Hoes! Hoes! Hoes!
kiwifarms.net
It was all supposed to be over now, this was it we could finally get shit done but no every single time.

Hold me tight friends and hope Boris gets a majority.

Any word yet if the 50 who quit have joined other parties or have they just sacked off politics for good? I’m sure looking forward to our second referendum on December 12th.
 
  • Feels
Reactions: spiritofamermaid

Alba gu brath

kiwifarms.net
It was all supposed to be over now, this was it we could finally get shit done but no every single time.

Hold me tight friends and hope Boris gets a majority.

Any word yet if the 50 who quit have joined other parties or have they just sacked off politics for good? I’m sure looking forward to our second referendum on December 12th.

Ken Clarke's standing down, and I think one or two of the others have joined up with the Libs. Ten or so were readmitted into the Tories, so there's a chance that even if he manages to pull a win, these sods might still swing which ever way the wind blows, not sure if they've been reselected mind, so there's that to hold out for.

As for the Farage deal, this came out yesterday:

So looks like the Brexit vote could be cut down the middle like I thought, now it all really simply depends on how they implement that approach, eg, with a wink wink and less canvasing in particular areas, or going gun ho.
 

RisingPheonix

I came here to squark at you
kiwifarms.net
Ken Clarke's standing down, and I think one or two of the others have joined up with the Libs. Ten or so were readmitted into the Tories, so there's a chance that even if he manages to pull a win, these sods might still swing which ever way the wind blows, not sure if they've been reselected mind, so there's that to hold out for.

As for the Farage deal, this came out yesterday:

So looks like the Brexit vote could be cut down the middle like I thought, now it all really simply depends on how they implement that approach, eg, with a wink wink and less canvasing in particular areas, or going gun ho.
It's worth noting the 10 readmitted are people who voted on the deal even after the whip was taken. The real trouble-makers out of the 21 are still out in the cold. Grieves, Letwin, Clarke and Rudd in particular. Rudd asked for her whip and got a Dear John letter back. Which is delicious considering her brother has basically managed to wreck the "People's Vote" group over in-fighting this week too.

General consensus among *most* leavers is to back the Boris deal, it's not perfect by any means, but even the ERG backs it. The only reason to not back it is because you somehow believe no deal will be possible at this point (I'ld like it but...no it's not going to happen). The people who object are generally the people who (unironically) wanted Sargon to win in the Euro elections.

It's early days of course, but I think TBP would of gotten plenty support had they run tactically. By doing what they are doing now, it's such a high risk play that I think those who would of considered it are going to be switched off unless they are hardcore UKIP fans.
 

iRON-mAn

kiwifarms.net
General consensus among *most* leavers is to back the Boris deal, it's not perfect by any means, but even the ERG backs it. The only reason to not back it is because you somehow believe no deal will be possible at this point (I'ld like it but...no it's not going to happen). The people who object are generally the people who (unironically) wanted Sargon to win in the Euro elections.
The problem with the current deal is still the Northern Ireland issue. While it's better than the backstop which put too much control in the EU side, and giving the Northern Ireland Assembly the ability to decide whether to stay or go is good on the face of it (though watch the Nationalists and the Alliance party out vote the Unionists, regardless of public opinion), it still causes some problems.

Though N.I. is under the UK customs control, it still has to apply some EU laws, and crucially, anything being bought has to be proven not to be sold on across the border to be exempt from EU tariffs. That's more paperwork, more red tape and there's a danger of businesses trading more closely with the EU, rather than the UK, simply to keep their profit margins low, which is what the Unionists are afraid of.

However, it could be good for Northern Ireland. Potentially businesses may be able to set up there and trade to both the UK and the south of Ireland without incurring additional tariffs from either. The problem is that we just don't know because there are a lot of small details about the tariffs and such that need to be ironed out in the transition period, but effectively Northern Ireland has become a weird stepping stone between the two, neither fully in one or fully in the other.

But I don't expect this to have a huge influence on the election. There's an argument to be made that it might reduce the number of seats the DUP get because they're the ones opposing the deal in favor of a closer alignment with the UK, whereas a lot of people might want to simply take the deal and continue to get some benefits from the EU at least. I doubt it though. Sinn Fein don't take their seats, and the other parties effectively don't have enough effect or influence so if N.I. want any say at all at Westminster, they have to back the DUP.

For England, I don't think most people care that much about Northern Ireland. So long as it's not being directly sold to the EU in return for leaving, I think a lot of people will be happy to have a deal that gives more freedom to the UK as a whole and lose a little bit of economic sovereignty in N.I. rather than months more of the 'will they, won't they' of Brexit and parliament.
 

Slimy Time

When you see the presents under the tree
kiwifarms.net
It's worth noting the 10 readmitted are people who voted on the deal even after the whip was taken. The real trouble-makers out of the 21 are still out in the cold. Grieves, Letwin, Clarke and Rudd in particular. Rudd asked for her whip and got a Dear John letter back. Which is delicious considering her brother has basically managed to wreck the "People's Vote" group over in-fighting this week too.

General consensus among *most* leavers is to back the Boris deal, it's not perfect by any means, but even the ERG backs it. The only reason to not back it is because you somehow believe no deal will be possible at this point (I'ld like it but...no it's not going to happen). The people who object are generally the people who (unironically) wanted Sargon to win in the Euro elections.

It's early days of course, but I think TBP would of gotten plenty support had they run tactically. By doing what they are doing now, it's such a high risk play that I think those who would of considered it are going to be switched off unless they are hardcore UKIP fans.
75462279_950966428613299_7678905976216354816_n.png

This is the co-founder of the Brexit party who had to resign because of making racist comments. Even the founding member of the party thinks Farage is being an idiot regarding this matter. He won't say it, but his own party is split between what should be done. Not everyone backs his latest move.
 

iRON-mAn

kiwifarms.net
View attachment 995438
This is the co-founder of the Brexit party who had to resign because of making racist comments. Even the founding member of the party thinks Farage is being an idiot regarding this matter. He won't say it, but his own party is split between what should be done. Not everyone backs his latest move.
farageseat - Copy.JPG

He's chosen not to run himself. He's still saying they'll fight every seat, but it looks like he's trying to keep his mistakes from being used against the Brexit Party.
 

Inquisitor_BadAss

Hoes! Hoes! Hoes!
kiwifarms.net
View attachment 995582

He's chosen not to run himself. He's still saying they'll fight every seat, but it looks like he's trying to keep his mistakes from being used against the Brexit Party.
I have a question. Since Nigel is the head of the Brexit party and let’s say they got the majority would he be prime minister if he doesn’t himself hold a seat? It would pose quite the conundrum if that was the case.
 

Slimy Time

When you see the presents under the tree
kiwifarms.net
I have a question. Since Nigel is the head of the Brexit party and let’s say they got the majority would he be prime minister if he doesn’t himself hold a seat? It would pose quite the conundrum if that was the case.
Good question. Not too sure but I think in that scenario as they are still the head of the party, pressure would be put on another MP in his party to step down and hold a by election where the leader runs there, either that or he resigns, they appoint a new leader. The Queen would no doubt be involved somehow in deciding what to do there.
 

iRON-mAn

kiwifarms.net
Theres no requirement for the Prime Minister to be a MP. It just needs to be someone who can command the confidence of the House. For example, we've had Prime Ministers from the Lords in the past.
Not since the early 1900's though. Alec Douglas-Home was the last person to be appointed PM from the Lords in the 1960's and he had to relinquish his titles and win a by-election. You're right that it's not a requirement but it'd be highly unusual for a PM nowadays not to be a MP, and I can only imagine the outrage if an unelected PM tried to carry out the will of the people.

I think @Slimy Time is right, that someone else would have to step down, and let Farage run in that constituency, either that or Farage would simply stand down and allow the MP with the largest amount of votes in the biggest constituency to assume the primiership and leadership of the party.
 
Tags
None

About Us

The Kiwi Farms is about eccentric individuals and communities on the Internet. We call them lolcows because they can be milked for amusement or laughs. Our community is bizarrely diverse and spectators are encouraged to join the discussion.

We do not place intrusive ads, host malware, sell data, or run crypto miners with your browser. If you experience these things, you have a virus. If your malware system says otherwise, it is faulty.

Supporting the Forum

How to Help

The Kiwi Farms is constantly attacked by insane people and very expensive to run. It would not be here without community support.

BTC: 1DgS5RfHw7xA82Yxa5BtgZL65ngwSk6bmm
ETH: 0xc1071c60Ae27C8CC3c834E11289205f8F9C78CA5
BAT: 0xc1071c60Ae27C8CC3c834E11289205f8F9C78CA5
LTC: LSZsFCLUreXAZ9oyc9JRUiRwbhkLCsFi4q
XMR: 438fUMciiahbYemDyww6afT1atgqK3tSTX25SEmYknpmenTR6wvXDMeco1ThX2E8gBQgm9eKd1KAtEQvKzNMFrmjJJpiino