General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

Tasty Tatty

kiwifarms.net
It's fun that, no matter how many surgeries these people go through, they still need to use dilators for their holes not to go back to form a penis (or try to). But then, we're supposed to "understand" they're true and honest women, not at all different to biological women, because biological women don't really exist, inserting a dildo up your coochie to keep it open it's what normal women do.
 

NerdShamer

kiwifarms.net
It's fun that, no matter how many surgeries these people go through, they still need to use dilators for their holes not to go back to form a penis (or try to). But then, we're supposed to "understand" they're true and honest women, not at all different to biological women, because biological women don't really exist, inserting a dildo up your coochie to keep it open it's what normal women do.
Be glad that the brainlets haven't figured out how to do an uterine transplant.
 

Kinnie

kiwifarms.net

keyboredsm4shthe2nd

CRUSH YOUR ENEMIES! GRIND THEIR BONES INTO DIRT!
kiwifarms.net
It's fun that, no matter how many surgeries these people go through, they still need to use dilators for their holes not to go back to form a penis (or try to). But then, we're supposed to "understand" they're true and honest women, not at all different to biological women, because biological women don't really exist, inserting a dildo up your coochie to keep it open it's what normal women do.
"Some women have MRKH! WE'RE EXACTLY THE SAME!!!!!" they'll screech, probably.
Makes me curious, med kiwis feel free to answer, because so far the answers online have been a bust. If a woman with severe mrkh gets a vagina created, is she going to have to dilate for the rest of her life like a troon, or, being an actual female, is her body just going to leave it eventually, because it's, y'know where her undeveloped cunt is supposed to be? ( :optimistic: :optimistic: :optimistic: )

Good lord, I'd hate to imagine attempting that in the 1930s when surgery in general was nowhere near as refined as it was now.
I'd garner it's no different, save for a cleanliness standard. Swapping intensely chromosomally incompatible organs is risky to begin with. AND it's not a kidney, where everyone has one and with the assistance of anti-rejection drugs it'll do what it's supposed to. Congrats, mentally ill woman hater, you got a fist sized lump of dead meat shoved in your lower abdomen, what a good job. Could've just used a steak and had the same result.
ETA: though given the time period of the first guy to go through with it, I'd harrow a guess he wasn't being a she willingly and or was subject to some very infamous red band wearing folks' "experimentation".
 

PozzedByCoronachan

Oikophobiaphobic
kiwifarms.net
Every day I begin to doubt more and more the existence of "legitimate" trans people. If they exist, they make up less than a percentage of the overall trans population.
I was looking into the numbers of it and it seems like that's 100% correct. For the following numbers I'll be using Black's Medical Dictionary's 42°edition (page 272) statistics on gender dysphoria, which states that around 1/30,000 men and 1/100,000 women suffer from gender dysphoria. If we assume that to be true and run the numbers through the US population (161,000,000 men and 165,000,000 women), we end up with a gender dysphoric population of around 7000 people (7024). If we include the rest of the 5 eyes countries (UK, CAN, AU, NZ) that number jumps to around 10,000 people.

stats.png
The biggest trans subreddit alones dwarfs that number by around 11 times , and the other ones have multipliers almost as crazy. While it's true that not everyone browsing is from an Anglo country or that every GD patient joins up these subreddits, I feel confident enough in my predictions to say that these numbers are just beyond impossible, even accounting for the overlap between subreddit audiences, unless 90% of the people browsing them are just fake trans.
rtrans.pngrMTF.pngrpassin.png

As to whether there are legit trans people out there, there probably are, brains are weird and there are probably weirder mental ilnesses out there, but needless to say, they're probably trying to cope with their illness more than putting themselves out there online.
 

keyboredsm4shthe2nd

CRUSH YOUR ENEMIES! GRIND THEIR BONES INTO DIRT!
kiwifarms.net
I was looking into the numbers of it and it seems like that's 100% correct. For the following numbers I'll be using Black's Medical Dictionary's 42°edition (page 272) statistics on gender dysphoria, which states that around 1/30,000 men and 1/100,000 women suffer from gender dysphoria. If we assume that to be true and run the numbers through the US population (161,000,000 men and 165,000,000 women), we end up with a gender dysphoric population of around 7000 people (7024). If we include the rest of the 5 eyes countries (UK, CAN, AU, NZ) that number jumps to around 10,000 people.

View attachment 1480623
The biggest trans subreddit alones dwarfs that number by around 11 times , and the other ones have multipliers almost as crazy. While it's true that not everyone browsing is from an Anglo country or that every GD patient joins up these subreddits, I feel confident enough in my predictions to say that these numbers are just beyond impossible, even accounting for the overlap between subreddit audiences, unless 90% of the people browsing them are just fake trans.
View attachment 1480609View attachment 1480613View attachment 1480614

As to whether there are legit trans people out there, there probably are, brains are weird and there are probably weirder mental ilnesses out there, but needless to say, they're probably trying to cope with their illness more than putting themselves out there online.
The "legit" trans numbers (as in >1% of the US population) cited before gays could marry throughout the whole country seems to be accurate, definitely. But after that equality was reached, teens and freaks screeching "I'M GAAAYYY" didn't have the same effect, so they decided to larp as transgender, falsely inflating the numbers. Like how the average survival age in the olden days got skewed to 50 when it was actually 80 because they counted all the infant deaths. I believe transgenderism is real in the same way BIID is real, or depersonalization is real, a mental disorder where your brain is disconnected from your body. Most nowadays though that rear their heads for attention are abused kids like Jazz and possibly Desmond, men who are gay and in denial like Blair White, mentally ill freaks like Pauly, or repulsive fetishists of any orientation like almost any troon on this site.
 

Tasty Tatty

kiwifarms.net
It's not just SJWs and allies. Camile Paglia says she's trans. There is another anti-SJW known figure Chad Felix Greene who says the same. They aren't remotely like those crazy fuckers who demand validation, but their argument is that because they don't "fit" entirely in the female or male category, they're trans. Which we all know it's absurd.

I swear, the insanity of believing you're special because you don't fit 100% in your gender role is gonna make me slap a bitch one day. Nobody is 100% "gender conforming" because such thing doesn't exist. It's like saying that because your cat doesn't like to be in a box it's not a cat or doesn't act like a cat. The biological components of what makes a man or a woman physically and mentally don't depend on whether you like barbie dolls or not.

To keep it on topic, we cannot just complete ignore that when even the so-called reasonable people say "I like to wear my hair short like a man, hence, I'm really not 100% a woman", people like Jazz have really no hope to make it. You're a woman who like to wear your hair like a man, big fucking deal, that doesn't make you a man. Can Paglia even be in the side of anti-trans lunacy when she believes exactly the same as the lunatics believe?
 

Hyrip123876

Chernobyl FM
kiwifarms.net
There's a lot said about 'social contagion' inflating trans statistics these days. What I want to know is why. Very very few people pretend to be gay. They may exaggerate their femininity or dress wacky way, but you will be unfairly judged for being a lesbian or gay, so I don't think many pretend for attention, even if being an out sexual minority gets you praise from some.
With this in mind, think about being trans. A lot of the people documented on this site have their social lives ruined for coming out as trans. These cows tend to have genuinely repulsive personalities to start with, and the trans thing is an intolerable complication, but it bears paying attention to.
Who pretends to be trans? If you have a friend group that's in any way normal, you're essentially cutting out a huge portion of your social group. They never announce this divorce, they just steadily find ways to not deal with you.
Now if you're in a friend group full of schizos, psychos and other neurotic individuals? I could see it spreading as a social contagion, since these young people tend to have a complex where they think normal people are somehow inferior.
But that still leaves a logical gap. Just wearing the clothes and changing your hairstyle doesn't necessarily make you trans. It barely makes you a Drag Queen/King.
Again, coming out as trans will lead to a lot of rejection and ostracisation. Cross-dressing because your peers do it are one thing, but to go on hormones? Goths, skaters, and all the other generational trends T get equated to didn't involve silently sterilising your body. This is a big deal, and not the sort of thing people will do even if their friends do it.
And the 'egg-cracking' campaign from discord trannies? Thats just textbook predation. You shouldn't listen to strangers on the internet. They seem to target impressionable tweens and social outcasts, but again, these types have fragile friend groups (or no friends!) so can hardly see such grooming surviving first contact with the real world unless there's equally insane figures in said person's life to facilitate transitioning

This is why I'm struggling to agree with the 'social contagion' theory, hoping somebody ITT can help me make sense of it
Btw I don't think non-binary really exists but that's a whole other story. If they're including non-binary in those reddit figures it becomes a lot more understanding because girls and guys who identify like that still have some ability to walk the rhetoric back and re-identify as a male/female.

With Jazz, we know this isn't the case. He was groomed from a very early age, and with regards to other trans kids, his parents and the show surely seek out other trans teenagers for Jazz to socialise with. I don't think Jazz is being malicious when he suggests other trans-kids get the bottom surgery. Despite his own being a disaster area, I think Jazz genuinely believes he wasn't 'complete' until he got the surgery. This is a mixture of sunk-cost fallacy and being told so by his family. The surgeries have only complicated matters, but I'm sure the line of thinking was to get to the end-stage, and then deal with all the mental problems once the body-problem was addressed. Unfortunately the real world isn't like this.
 

Law

hates dogs, loves vicodin
kiwifarms.net
Btw I don't think non-binary really exists but that's a whole other story.
A ton of woman friends of mine, all white, all in their 30s, all heterosexual or bisexual (they're all dating cis het men of course) have started to do the whole non-binary schtick and it's annoying as hell. I just try to ignore it when it comes up cause I wanna have friends. I just treat like being into astrology or wicca or something. They don't change anything about their bodies, clothes, names, or who they date or how they act, but magical internal feelings have suddenly rendered them into androgynous unwomen, because one day they saw a relatable meme.
I think this is social contagion, like when the same demographic got into the Meyers-Briggs tests or the Five Love Languages, or calling yourself an empath.
It's fucking obnoxious and apparently the best way for me to express my cringe is a long, off-topic rant on a thread about an abused kid.
Bring on the trash cans and puzzle pieces.
 
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Safir

ノークレーム・ノーリターン
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Just wearing the clothes and changing your hairstyle doesn't necessarily make you trans.
It literally does. 90% of British troons do nothing to transition.

Again, coming out as trans will lead to a lot of rejection and ostracisation.
...
This is why I'm struggling to agree with the 'social contagion' theory, hoping somebody ITT can help me make sense of it
(IRL) social contagion causes rapid onset gender dysphoria (ROGD) in teenage girls. Trooning out helps them avoid more IRL harassment than it causes and raises their social standing, then the other girls scramble to keep up.

Teenage boys follow the incel to troon pipeline due to online porn and online grooming. They troon out IRL when they give up and accept the NEET / trustafarian life.

If you have a friend group that's in any way normal, you're essentially cutting out a huge portion of your social group.
They're kids. They aren't particularly gender critical. Popular girls stay popular and give rise to copycats, unpopular girls get attention the first time in their lives. Girls who troon out start out looking normal, it takes years to turn into a potato. Children already have multiple invented names to call each other, what's one more?

all the other generational trends T get equated to didn't involve silently sterilising your body. This is a big deal, and not the sort of thing people will do even if their friends do it.
They're children, they don't think ahead. Hormones are pushed by both youtube "influencers" and gender doctors; after a child is diagnosed with gender dysphoria, the question is "when". Having been "affirmed", 100% of them follow through. (Having been told to wait, 90% of them don't.)
I had zero discomfort with puberty and menstruation. I just treated it as a fun quest. But if at 12 I knew what I know now, and what children can "learn" online now, I'd totally have wanted to get sterilized. I wasn't a child hater, I simply couldn't imagine myself as an adult. How do I see myself in 20 years? Dude, I can see myself failing the rigid body dynamics quiz in an hour and testing the Novell exploit on the school network next Wednesday, gee I wonder if I can rename the fatty's account to "Donut Fat".
 

Mrs. Adams

Russian Bot
kiwifarms.net
The vibe I'm getting from the people I know is that mearly claiming to be trans or non-bionary is a Level 1 skill while passing and getting hormones and surgeries are Levels 2 and 3. Level 4 might be getting a non-trans SO who accepts your chosen gender. The most authentic trans person has the most levels and wins the hidden secret to happiness and having their life put together.
 

Kinnie

kiwifarms.net
There's a lot said about 'social contagion' inflating trans statistics these days. What I want to know is why.
There's actually quite a few disturbing parallels between the current "transgender" craze and the "multiple personality" craze from the 70s/80s.

Both are based on faking serious medical disorders that appear in less than 1% of the general population--Gender Dysphoria and Dissociative Identity Disorder (f.k.a. Multiple Personality Disorder).

The rate of diagnosis for both exploded after mainstream media picked up on these disorders. For DID/MPD, the prevalence jumped from 400 cases in 1970-ish to 40000 by century's end. That's a multiplier of 100x.

Parents of people diagnosed with DID are attacked for "abusing" their kids into having the disorder. Parents of people diagnosed with GD are attacked because now it's "abusive" not to shoot testosterone into your tomboy kid.

Now that people have realized how expensive and rigorous the treatments for GD and DID are, they've backpedaled and are now espousing the idea that
1. You can be transgender but 100% comfortable in your birth body (thus not requiring treatment for GD)
2. You can have multiple personalities without the trauma that causes it (thus not requiring treatment for DID)

...BUT somehow people without GD and people without DID are still entitled to the same medicine and therapy people with GD and people with DID need.

Mainstream media refuses to cover the stories of people misdiagnosed with these disorders, the people who were damaged by getting medicine and treatments they didn't need, the families broken by accusations of abuse and neglect simply because they didn't play along with the narrative.

This is just what I've noticed, off the top of my head. I'm sure there's more. It's all so bone-chillingly similar.

TL;DR: People are faking (or misled into acting out) transgenderism/gender dysphoria the same way people fake (or were misled into acting out) multiple personalities.
 
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Circular Tyrant

kiwifarms.net
I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but has anyone else noticed the connection with trannies and harsh noise? I swear, with absolutely no exceptions, every single tranny that I've come across on discord, rym, etc. either listens to and/or creates harsh noise.
 

Helvetica Standard

kiwifarms.net
A ton of woman friends of mine, all white, all in their 30s, all heterosexual or bisexual (they're all dating cis het men of course) have started to do the whole non-binary schtick and it's annoying as hell. I just try to ignore it when it comes up cause I wanna have friends. I just treat like being into astrology or wicca or something. They don't change anything about their bodies, clothes, names, or who they date or how they act, but magical internal feelings have suddenly rendered them into androgynous unwomen, because one day they saw a relatable meme.
I think this is social contagion, like when the same demographic got into the Meyers-Briggs tests or the Five Love Languages, or calling yourself an empath.
You can easily suss out why women identify as nonbinary if you talk to them about their problems and not the labels. Some are butches who don't like being seen with the classical expectations assigned to women except in the frame of being lesbians, which is a common and understandable sentiment, but doesn't mean you actually have to change your full legal name to something that sounds like a bad YA fantasy character. One of another type that I interacted with in person was a she/they that only brought up the "they" as a gotcha card when someone called her a woman for being incredibly feminine, fashion-obsessed, valley-girl, "bi-curious", etc., since being nonbinary then put her as the disadvantaged and special one. Aren't YOU the bigot for not knowing? Of course, like you said, most of these people are lily-white. That being said, the former category is a social problem you can actually attack (acceptance of lesbians, general sex equality/old school feminist stuff), while the latter are attention-seekers and wannabe queen bees. Unless they're xenogender MOGAI schizocows. Those need mental health support.

With men, it's more clear-cut. Either they're trans women who know they can't pass or they're AGPs. There's not much you can do with AGPs that far down the rabbit hole, unfortunately.

TL;DR: People are faking (or misled into acting out) transgenderism/gender dysphoria the same way people fake (or were misled into acting out) multiple personalities.
You see this a lot with liberal arts colleges or even universities in liberal areas. I'm not big on the "colleges manufacture Marxist transgender lesbians" theory, as most college professors (even at very liberal institutions) are usually indifferent about LGBT or far-left shit unless they teach women's/LGBT studies or similar. It's just that the demographic of kids that attend leads to having joke slogans like "gay by May or your money back". There's a pretty anecdotally documented trend of students at colleges like that essentially waiting for cishet kids to "accept" they're gay/trans (read: trans "egg" theory), and IDing as nonbinary or non-dysphoric trans is the new "bi-curious" in terms of looking cool to that demographic and getting them off your back. It's just case-by-case if that person has the willpower to not actually get sucked into it for good.
 

Skipjack

Simply Playing The Game
kiwifarms.net
This is why I'm struggling to agree with the 'social contagion' theory, hoping somebody ITT can help me make sense of it
This is anecdotal but the pattern I personally saw was as follows:
  1. Start with a group of socially-struggling, mentally ill nerds
  2. As with usual exposure to Tumblr/Twitter, the group starts shifting left politically
    One member of the group comes out as trans
  3. Seem happier about themselves now
  4. Everyone thinks they're cool both inside the core friend group and tangential ones, giving them clout
  5. As the group shifts from normal left to wacko left, they begin to revere people with more minority labels
  6. Everyone remembers how the one trans person is cool now
  7. They all think becoming trans can someone make them cool and fix their problems
  8. Cut off non-trans and non-lefty friends from the group
  9. People become trans to continue fitting in with their friends
  10. They all become unremarkable, trans clones of one another
Again, purely anecdotal, but "autistic people grouping up online and influencing each other through poor choices" may not be too far off a start. In my experience, I saw a whole friend group of 12+ people, from young teens to late 20s, all suddenly come out as trans within the span of 2 years (except one who is smart enough to recognize he's just a plain ol straight man).
 

Dysnomia

Party like it's COVID-1999
kiwifarms.net
In the case of vaginal atresia, dialation usually works for actually woman. As far uterine transplants goes, a lot things can go wrong; but it requires an clean environment and it isn't as common as you'd expect.

And the troon you guys are talking about is Lili Elbe, who died from an infection caused by the uterine transplant.
The one The Danish Girl was based on. He sounded like an autogynephile closet case to me. I understand it was the 30s. But doctors should not have thought that a uterine transplant would result in a troon pregnancy. Did they intend to put in ovaries? Did they think the second ever vagioplasty would hold through childbirth?

I wonder how many troons still think that uterus transplants are going to be a possibility for them. The male body was not built for that sort of thing and like it or not mtf are men biologically.
 
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