General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

Freya

i wanna go where the down boys go
True & Honest Fan
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why are transsexuals the only ones obsessed with children?
speak for yourself
image_2021-03-26_004905.png
 

Bamanda

The hammer has got to drop
kiwifarms.net
My disagreement with your argument is that all the serious trans people I know didn't fit with their bio gender.... so forcing them into traditional gender roles would make things worse. The guys (transwomen) were all bullied, often by their dads, for being kind, artistic, or good at computers instead of sports; while all the girls (transmen) I know all come from extremely conservative religious backgrounds (Fundie Christian or Muslim) where they were expected to follow very strict, repressive gender roles. Add too much Tumblr, and a dash of autism, other mental issues, and voilà.

I also think there's a sexual component, especially to the MTFs, but I haven't seen it in my social circles so far. I think some guys transition because of that and some transition becaue they're ashamed of being failed men - or subconsciously want to become the unattainable feminine girlfriend. FTMs are almost all punching up.

Yeah sure. “Gender roles” assigned to each sex are also massively accountable for what we have now. Abigail Shrier wrote a really good book about how girls in particular are rebelling against these roles by turning to transgender ideology. When you say “bio gender” what you actually mean is sex. Although things like being kind, artistic, creative are seen by society as feminine attributes that doesn’t mean every woman has to fit that mould. The same goes for things like being good at sport, fixing engines or driving trucks being masculine attributes. Not every man will fit into that role. Just because your friends feel more comfortable with roles society assigns to the opposite sex doesn’t mean they secretly are the opposite sex and have the wrong body. It means society needs to stop placing stereotypes on each sex and punishing those who deviate from those stereotypes. That’s actually what third wave feminism started out trying to change. Unfortunately it was commodified and corrupted.

I am biased because I’m a terf and most of the mtf who come to my attention are depraved porn addled incels. You might not have seen it personally but you can’t deny in the past maybe 10 years that’s who has taken over the movement.

FWIW through my terfism I have come to know a lot about dysphoria. I acknowledge that there are some people who, from a very early age, show distress at their sex. I believe these people need help and support. I don’t think it is a physical condition though, I think it’s mental and the only current treatment for that is to support them to “live as” a stereotype of the opposite sex. That’s what’s so tragic. If proper, non partisan research was allowed to go ahead there may be some form of treatment that addresses the mental aspect without having to change or mutilate their bodies.

Within the LGBT, why are transsexuals the only ones obsessed with children?, with the whole issue of trans childhoods and their insistence on allowing minors to use puberty blockers, or even letting them guide them in their transition. I don't remember LGB being so nosy when it comes to minors, only transsexuals
(but maybe I'm just exaggerating)
I think trying to convince people that this is happening to kids is designed to make it look like a legitimate state of being for adults too. It looks less like a sexual perversion, and more like a biological condition if kids are doing it. That’s why they’re so utterly obsessed.

There’s also the added bonus of having a group of adults who have prepubescent bodies but are above the age of consent. You only have to look at the FTM porn subs to see what’s going on. These people are depraved pedophiles and they are exploiting those kids and young people for sexual gratification.
 

Enjoy_the_Soylence

kiwifarms.net
Yaniv getting the chop reminded me of a discussion I had ages ago. Troons who were trying to seem respectable (truscum) used to say Yaniv was anti-trans troll and not really trans. When asked how we could tell if someone was faking it, they said fakers wouldn't go on HRT or get surgery. Not just because it was too far for a joke but it would cause dysphoria, being contrary to their (real) gender identity. I wish the old debate sub was still around so I could ask them: guess Yaniv is a true honest wammin OR gender identity doesn't exist?

IIRC that debate was sparked by a nurse talking about an elderly Alzheimer's patient who had transitioned but didn't remember ever wanting to be a woman and was constantly horrified/confused by his missing dick. I wish I could find that article again but Google, Bing, Yandex don't pull it up. Closest I can find is this* which acknowledges that as being a thing. What's the logic there? Gender identity is real and innate but dementia patients lose theirs? So I searched for neuroscience case studies of people who had brain damage and "woke up" with a different "gender identity" but I couldn't find anything. If the trans community believes it's real, that's where they should be looking for evidence. (Oliver Sacks type case studies)

(* Weasely words sound like they want to make it standard elderly care to refer to dementia patients who re-identify as their birth sex still as what they FORGOT they transitioned into or it's ableism? Priceless.)
 
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One Haunted Gambler

Green light means danger
kiwifarms.net
If gender identity exists then where is it located in the brain? Frontal Lobe? Hypothalamus? Well, definitely not Hypothalamus because it knows which sex organs we have and reacts to them accordingly. We know which lobes control which organs so, why can't we know where the gender identity is located? Oh, it's because it doesn't exist.
 

All Cops Are Based

kiwifarms.net
Society needed first and second wave feminism. Things were (and still are in many places) horrible for women before it. I know men didn’t have it easy either, but no one can deny forcing women to be commodities did massive harm to our lives.

Yes thank god women get to waveslave for 50 years and die for Israel now. So liberating. Life for women was so commodifying before rapid industrialization in the West led to an increase in demand for cheap labor, directly leading to first wave feminism.
 
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mario if smoke weed

I'm super duper, with a big tuper.
kiwifarms.net
If gender identity exists then where is it located in the brain? Frontal Lobe? Hypothalamus? Well, definitely not Hypothalamus because it knows which sex organs we have and reacts to them accordingly. We know which lobes control which organs so, why can't we know where the gender identity is located? Oh, it's because it doesn't exist.
It's located in the left hemisphere, obviously.
 

Parson Weebs

kiwifarms.net
General thoughts I've had floating around my head for a while now. Much of this is based off my own experiences and theories about troonery. Sad to say. I've interacted with troons and those in the trans cult. Probably overlong and similar to stuff I've said before.

There's a case to be made that a large part of transgenderism is a false model of human experience. I believe that each person has to live a broad and thoughtful life, taking in experiences and wisdom, falling in love, caring about others and the environment and ourselves. Are you the same person you were 10 years ago? Ideally you would not be, as we all need to grow and change. In sense, we all transition, a la the seven ages of man. This idea is perhaps less prevalent in ossified caste structures as in stereotypical India (I don't know much about this), where people can grow within tranches of society but not between tranches.

Troons grow too, absorbing influences from their societies and subcultures. The issue is that these transformations do not manifest in the psychological domain, except as paraphilias and destructive behaviours. Rather, troons focus in on an impossible physical transformation instead of a gradual psychological transformation. There's a vacuity to just making yourself pretty (in your eyes) and having orgasms. Perhaps this is a flaw of modern society where self-sacrifice and generosity are demeaned. It might be a profound psychobiological truth of the human species that each human cannot flourish solely "off their own back", with the sole knowledge of their own thoughts and ideas.

Troons take the path of brash and self-regarding power, a la Darth Sidious. Psychologically healthy people become like Yoda.

Personallly, I thought my own trooning could be a staircase to a general psychological flourishing,. When it was actually a vapid venture by a naive autistic who couldn't and can't relate to other people's mind's easily. A Sonderweg of the Soul. I'd read too many coming of age novels and I was unambitious and young for my age. I also struggle to understand gay people, so I was transfixed by an episode of Lewis which featured the possessive gay boyfriend trope (the writer is gay btw) trooning to help a suicidal and self-loathing bf.

Psychological loneliness at puberty wrecked my weak abilities to form good connections with others. I had a parent with severe mental health difficulties. I thought trooning could be a psychological coming of age - indeed, the attendant troubles of trooning seemed to confirm that I was taking the arduous road of 'real life'. I hurt a lot of people and I think the whole episode, which went on for two years, was pseudo=psychotic.

People's struggles are individual to them, and making a movement out of your own psychological odyssey, whatever it is, is narcissistic as hell.
 

soft breathing

god has left the building a long time ago.
kiwifarms.net
I'm not 100% sure if it belongs here, but German news are now also reporting on Transgenderism. I'll put a roughly checked google translate translation under the spoiler tag for anyone who's interested.


More visibility - better laws
03/31/2021 1:09 pm
By Antje Passenheim, ARD-Studio New York

In the US, designers adorn themselves with trans people, but there and elsewhere in the world many of them are murdered. New York activists are calling for visibility and protective laws.

Isa Noyola understood what blind hatred of people like her can lead to when a friend fell victim. Ruby had come to the United States from Nicaragua full of dreams and hopes.

"She was tragically murdered. Her body was thrown in a remote warehouse area," says Noyola. Her friend's death changed her. "This morning I experienced something like this for the first time. And I knew: I can't just mourn," she says. "I have to fight for justice."

Isa Noyola understood what blind hatred of people like her can lead to when a friend fell victim. Ruby had come to the United States from Nicaragua full of dreams and hopes.

"She was tragically murdered. Her body was thrown in a remote warehouse area," says Noyola. Her friend's death changed her. "This morning I experienced something like this for the first time. And I knew: I can't just mourn," she says. "I have to fight for justice."

At least 350 murders in the past year

Noyola wants to fight - for her friend and for all transgender people for whom discrimination, threats and worse are part of everyday life - including in major US cities from San Francisco to New York. The current deputy director of the trans-organization Mijente says the wave of hatred and violence is growing: a "series of violence and murders that happen every year" - and about which hardly anyone speaks.

At least 350 transgender people were murdered worldwide last year. According to the human rights organization Human Rights Watch, 44 of them are in the United States. Elle Hearns is not surprised. She is the founder of the New York Marsha P. Johnson Institute, which advocates for African American trans people. "These numbers were not previously tracked. They now create a sensation every year. But we have been warning for years: We are being killed, murdered," says they. "Of course the numbers are increasing every year, because there are always better sources, better coverage."

Activism groups underestimate the problem that the murdered are mostly trans women and rarely white. Mostly they are black Americans and Latinas. The discrimination fits into the pattern of racism and xenophobia - and even civil rights movements like Black Lives Matter ignored it, says Hearns: "They underestimated the consequences that oppression and structural racism have on such marginalized groups."

The activists demand: Politicians must act, must condemn the violence, provide better protection - by also stopping the exclusion of trans people through laws. 65 such laws are aimed nationwide in the US against transgender people, says Noyola: "Simple laws that for example denying trans children and young people access to school toilets. Or practicing their sport. "

Laws and culture have to change US media, on the other hand, like to adorn themselves with beautiful trans people like model Leyna Bloom: She walked the catwalk in Manhattan for Tommy Hilfíger. A sports magazine now shows her in a swimsuit on the cover picture.

The "New York Times" celebrates it. That's great, says Isa Noyola. But don't solve the problem. Because such a special position is also dangerous: Trans people are on front pages, we have our own TV series. We are visible that way. But right-wing, conservative and hate groups use this to spread fear of us in the communities. Transgender people primarily need basic rights and protection - and: normality. It is not enough to just change laws or just change culture. Both have to happen at the same time, says Noyola. And above all, it has to be one thing: visible.
 

Had

"he who increases knowledge increases sorrow"-1:18
kiwifarms.net
One thing that continues to worry me is how people treat HRT and other drugs
like you can't overdose on them or have side effects from them.

Taking tons of any hormones can have real consequences and I continue to see people trying to put themselves above endocrinologists and think they know better. My worry is that this rejection of modern medical practice for their own idealized and unchecked version is not only cult like but harmful.
 

XeXerself

kiwifarms.net
One thing that continues to worry me is how people treat HRT and other drugs
like you can't overdose on them or have side effects from them.

Taking tons of any hormones can have real consequences and I continue to see people trying to put themselves above endocrinologists and think they know better. My worry is that this rejection of modern medical practice for their own idealized and unchecked version is not only cult like but harmful.
This is why those weird online services that hook you up with hormones without a prescription or blood test are a disaster in the making.
 

Had

"he who increases knowledge increases sorrow"-1:18
kiwifarms.net
This is why those weird online services that hook you up with hormones without a prescription or blood test are a disaster in the making.
it's desperation, they think what they are getting isn't enough and if they just had some more...
but it's superfluous in the end
 

mister butafuco

kiwifarms.net
One thing that continues to worry me is how people treat HRT and other drugs
like you can't overdose on them or have side effects from them.

Taking tons of any hormones can have real consequences and I continue to see people trying to put themselves above endocrinologists and think they know better. My worry is that this rejection of modern medical practice for their own idealized and unchecked version is not only cult like but harmful.

Something I didn't know happened was that NB females can take T to masculinize their face a bit to make them 'androgynous' and stop them getting misgendered. I watched some YouTube vids of these girls who reckoned that looking a bit more manly would stop them being thought of as girls. The results were that they looked like boys just starting puberty. Noone is going to think 'ooh, there goes a NB person' because 99% of the population work on the basis that there are two sexes. They are not on the lookout for females with bumfluff beards wearing pronoun badges. All the androgynous celebrities I can think of pull off the look with clothes and make up. You never saw Annie Lennox with whiskers on her chin.

I am horrified that doctors were prescribing T so these kids could end up in uncanny valley, telling them they could stop when they were happy with their appearance. The problem with that is that T makes people feel horny & full of energy. They may not want to stop taking it,
 

XeXerself

kiwifarms.net
I am horrified that doctors were prescribing T so these kids could end up in uncanny valley, telling them they could stop when they were happy with their appearance. The problem with that is that T makes people feel horny & full of energy. They may not want to stop taking it,
The people who push the lie that "you can just try it and if you don't like it you can stop" need to speak to all the detransitioners who still have issues with having facial hair or are balding or a permanently lower voice even after stopping hormones, lol.

You think it would make more sense to encourage gender-questioning people to experiment with their appearance via hair and makeup style or whatever instead of rushing them to go to the nearest gender clinic and take hormones (you can always throw out the clothes you wore during your embarrassing teen subculture phase and a bad haircut can just grow back), but they sure love to push pharma as the answer on everyone.
 

mister butafuco

kiwifarms.net
You think it would make more sense to encourage gender-questioning people to experiment with their appearance via hair and makeup style or whatever instead of rushing them to go to the nearest gender clinic and take hormones (you can always throw out the clothes you wore during your embarrassing teen subculture phase and a bad haircut can just grow back), but they sure love to push pharma as the answer on everyone.
I also think a massive part of treatment should be pointing out that we cannot control what other people think of us. Many people will never see a trans man as a 'real' man or accept NB identities. There is a based UK psychiatrist, Dr. Az Hakeem, who has worked in gender clinics and has published a book about trans stuff. Obviously, therapists have to be careful and not stray into 'conversion therapy', but he asks patients who are obsessing over getting various operations things like, "What if they just see you as you but with your breasts removed?" "How would you feel if, after transition, people see you as a transwoman rather than a woman?" If the reason someone is embarking on hormones/surgery to alter other people's reactions towards them, they may be fighting a losing battle,

It's a strange area of medicine where the only type of 'cure' a doctor could admit to would be one where they affirm the trans patient's dysphoria and do a good job with the surgery. A doctor who takes a dysphoric teen and makes them see that it's okay to be a gender nonconforming homosexual and that surgery will not make them the opposite sex cannot talk of 'curing' anyone. They have to pretend that they've just weeded out people who weren't really trans.
 

Vingle

I'm Kaito Momota, Luminary of the Stars! 百田 解斗
kiwifarms.net
One thing that continues to worry me is how people treat HRT and other drugs
like you can't overdose on them or have side effects from them.

Taking tons of any hormones can have real consequences and I continue to see people trying to put themselves above endocrinologists and think they know better. My worry is that this rejection of modern medical practice for their own idealized and unchecked version is not only cult like but harmful.
Well, the effects of anabolic steorids are well documented by now. There's even a risk when getting hormone replacement therapy.
 

AnOminous

とても可愛い
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
One thing that continues to worry me is how people treat HRT and other drugs
like you can't overdose on them or have side effects from them.

Taking tons of any hormones can have real consequences and I continue to see people trying to put themselves above endocrinologists and think they know better. My worry is that this rejection of modern medical practice for their own idealized and unchecked version is not only cult like but harmful.
Medicine really isn't all it's cracked up to be. It seems every generation has some absolutely batshit crazy quackery pushed as legitimate medicine by the actual medical establishment. This generation, it appears to be troonery. In previous generations, it was lobotomies, or deranged ideas your teeth somehow made you crazy so they just jerked them out, a la Dr. Henry Cotton. Or Sigmund Fraud himself, a demented cokehead who invented psychiatry, and was paid by incestuous pedophiles to say their daughters merely imagined they were molested by them and had an "Electra Complex" when no, they were just actually raped by their dads.
 

Sustainable War

kiwifarms.net
I'm full-on tranny accelerationism at this point. I don't think society is going to really turn around on it till the medical issues are so beyond obvious. It took us like 60 years to get cigarettes out in the open. That study came out that said 15% of zoomers identify as either "queer or transgender." That's enough to fall into the pipeline that's been forming for a while now. Let some U.S. states go fucking nuts with this - puberty blockers, HRT, and definitely SRS. I want everyone to know someone whose parents let them become some broken, birdboned belligerent fetishist with a heart condition and stink ditch/flesh puppet before they're 30. Let's get this done in 10-15 years.
 

Sustainable War

kiwifarms.net
I'm guessing most of those are cishets bucking for intersectionality points.
In the closet you might say.
Yeah, but with the current set of social dynamics and state of modern psychiatric care, I would bet a non-insignificant number of them could troon-out or semi-troon-out, regardless of their actual predilections. It's part of a pattern of growth too, so it could be assumed to be more than 15% in further years. I'm thinking we can have 1/100 zoomers part of at least one class action lawsuit by the time I have a kid starting to get old enough to be susceptible to the bullshit.
 

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