General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

DiscoRodeo

kiwifarms.net
I can't give acceptance to transgender people carte blanche. That is because too many people who use that label are misguided, vulnerable people - often children! - or perverts. I want neither to encourage a sex offender in their fantasies, nor to worsen the mental health issues of a confused person.
Bingo. Another issue is, a lot of the older trans people seem to have drank the kool-aid and don't seem to realize there are problems within their own community at large and accept accusations of "transphobia" carte blanche without actually bothering to look into things. I do think there are actual trans people out there who deserve the same rights as anyone else and to be able to earn the same respect for being a decent person (respect being earned, not given- being chill is the basic response to anyone before that);

but the entire trans movement has perverts, has people who have dug in on issues like women's spaces & children being able to transition for reasons that baffle me, even genuine trans people and some (not all, I want to make that point, but a large amount), of older trans people still supporting that push within the community, and there are definitely major problems with that.

At this point, Id rather see the movement as a whole nuked, return to transitioning being not on anyones radar and not a popular thing, and hope that the aftermath of a nuked movement learns to chill and not get gaslit into all the idpol things. As it is right now, I used to give acceptance to trans people carte blanche, and Id sort of like to return to that or not caring, but because of the amount of crazies and the amount of "normies" giving the crazies free reign and also casual support, I just don't feel all that ethical in doing that.
 

Shovel Mech Pilot

Backhoe Firestarter
kiwifarms.net
The problem is that, on a fundamental level, there is always a certain toxic portion of the population that will seek out some kind of identification that will give them power over others. Right now, the trendy thing is being transgender, but this has taken many forms throughout history and will take many forms in the future. This is the same reason you get power-tripping cops. It doesn't mean all cops are bad but we have to acknowledge that some people leverage these groups for their own sick ends. It's not an attack on all transgender people to point out that there are Jonathan Yanivs in the world. A lot of people are not capable of that level of nuance though and see things only in black-and-white terms - either all of these people are bad or none of them are. It's never that clear-cut. Really makes me feel bad for legitimate transgender people who are just trying to live their life. I've known a couple of them myself and have nothing bad to say about them. I've also known some serious trans perverts. It's that second group that I have a problem with.
 

AnOminous

とても可愛い
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
I do think there are actual trans people out there who deserve the same rights as anyone else
Even the utterly shitty ones already do have all the rights anyone else has. They want special rights. They want the right to force people to participate in their fetish, a "right" which absolutely no other group has. They want the "right" to be completely above criticism ever, at any time, and for it to be literally a crime to say literal dictionary definitions like "a woman is an adult human female." Absolutely no other group has such a "right."
 

DiscoRodeo

kiwifarms.net
Even the utterly shitty ones already do have all the rights anyone else has. They want special rights. They want the right to force people to participate in their fetish, a "right" which absolutely no other group has. They want the "right" to be completely above criticism ever, at any time, and for it to be literally a crime to say literal dictionary definitions like "a woman is an adult human female." Absolutely no other group has such a "right."
Agreed, they already do have the same rights as everyone else and with the special rights thing.

Its why the stuff the shitty ones are pushing really rubs me the wrong way. If it was special rights like "trans women have to have a separate building in the male jail" I might actually get that, but thats not what it is, its "let us in the female jail or youre a bigot". Now thats just the shitty ones (which is a majority now), but

Even the reasonable ones (most of the older troons) tolerate this, do not police their own community, or some of them will even participate and join in and drink the kool aid fully. Its why, when they move one step forward, but have to take 5 steps back when the backlash finally occurs, my willingness to care has basically ceased.

Any attempt at "police your community, actually hold yourselves accountable for certain things, maybe take a moderate position, maybe what feminists are saying isnt bigoted, etc" is met with derailing and "youre a bigot".

They're really going to give the right side of the political spectrum the exact rope theyll need to hang the trans community, and they don't even see the folly in this
 

Large

kiwifarms.net
They want the right to force people to participate in their fetish, a "right" which absolutely no other group has. They want the "right" to be completely above criticism ever, at any time, and for it to be literally a crime to say literal dictionary definitions like "a woman is an adult human female." Absolutely no other group has such a "right."
African warlords.
Checkmate.
 

polyqueerandrosensual

Somehow-not-a-Lolcow
kiwifarms.net
Troons don't neeed mental health. They are beyond salvation at that point.

The moment they start to take HRT or they start putting on makeup and wearing bra and panties, they are done. They are ruined because the dysphoria has taken a hold into their psyche and morphed their preconceptions on society and gender, trying to go against the whole concept of anatomy and biology and pretending they construct their personality based on artificial genitalia.

No amount of therapy, counseling, psychologist and psychiatrist can help someone who is so deluded enough as to think they are a women trapped in a men's body if they went the trooning route because the damage is so severe there is nothing to repair. That individual can never be whole again and reconcile mind with body.

Troons need to understand the only solution for their problems is the FINAL SOLUTION.

What about detroonsitioners who become normal?
 

Just Dont

kiwifarms.net
What about detroonsitioners who become normal?
They aren't normal. And I will try to explain it in a very succinct and easy way to follow because this is something complicated and convoluted.

So, lets take a kid: a 3 year old kid who is coming to terms with the fact that there are two genders: men and women. That kid is learning something that is shattering his naive conceptions, one because it puts into questioning its place in the world and two it makes the kid confront the issue that is not alone in the world and third it categorize the kid under the gender of its birth.

That learning is a very solid paradigm that will accompany the child during his years of life.

If that child transitions, that knowledge is perverted and shattered. The simplistic yet complex understanding of two genders is replaced by artificial induced propaganda. When that individual realize the mistake and detransition his psyche will try to revert to that infantile knowledge of two genders because when it was a kid gave him/her comfort, however that knowledge by personal experience is shattered and cannot be useful anymore, therefor there is a void that cause doubt and confusion, generating anxiety and mental instability that won't be cured by simple therapy or drugs.

The individual will have to learn, once again, that his/her gender is both in body and mind. Something that a kid can learn pretty easy because is a way to rationalize the world around and understand its body, but an adult cant learn that as easy because of the myriad of knowledge that contradict that simple concept of two genders, more so when they transitioned and were addled by HRT, subjective stimulus, peer pressure, propaganda, etc.

The individual who detransitioned cannot and will not come to terms again with his own gender no matter how much he/she tries because his/her mind destroyed a conception that is key to the functionality of mind and body alike.

What usually happens is that detroons tend to kill themselves or live under constant depression, anxiety and mental instability.
 

admiral

Diet Nazi
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Any attempt at "police your community, actually hold yourselves accountable for certain things, maybe take a moderate position, maybe what feminists are saying isnt bigoted, etc" is met with derailing and "youre a bigot".
That's the same for every 'marginaliised' group, though. They refuse to hold their own communities accountable or police themselves, and then get mad when other people have to step in and try to deal with their shit.

There was some shit storm a few months ago on twitter over some drama with a real hosewives show. One of the black women on the show had flipped her shit and caused a scene brandishing a knife, and vice immediately published an article saying that it was racist to condemn this woman's behaviour because she was a victim of white supremacy.
 

DiscoRodeo

kiwifarms.net
That's the same for every 'marginaliised' group, though. They refuse to hold their own communities accountable or police themselves, and then get mad when other people have to step in and try to deal with their shit.
Its that way currently with most margianilized groups, but didn't used to seem to be like that. I would say that theres actually an attitude present today that reels from any sort of gatekeeping going on in communities, that didn't always used to be the case. I do recall that older subcultures tended to gatekeep themselves, that sometimes they got abusive in that regard (not idpol, but "metal elitists" can be a good example of this), but there were things within communities that just were not accepted, would get you booted out fast, and that people didn't want to associate with.

Even if you go back to the 60s and gay rights, some of the things that these activists made sure of was that their movement was quick to boot out pedos and simply not associate with anyone into this. For lack of more nuance, this actually enabled the movement to actually survive long enough to get to where it is today. Lo and behold, however, and people within these communities have gone lax and they will try and shove pedos under the rug or excuse their behavior (ie, reddit admins), thus creating more problems for themselves down the road later. These people like to scream about oppression from the Catholic Church, but ironically- they havn't looked at said institution and the one thing which damned it in the end, which was trying to shove pedos under the rug and away from the limelight. It is up to people to internally police their own communities, and if they do not- when outsiders are forced to, they largely lose their right to complain.

I do think that older transfolk should actually try and police the younger ones and not just accept the "dont kinkshame" shit, or if they don't, whatever is done in the name of the broader community has their implicit consent through them not caring enough to make a ruckus about things they definitely should care about. Really, the trans community needs gatekeepers, or I should say needed gatekeepers. As the term here implies, its not just a plagued community, its an unironically aids-ridden and beyond diseased group of people, and at this point the community is more cancer than benign. Could that have been prevented? I'd argue it could have been. Could the previous generation of transfolk actually spoke up about the internets sissy hypno, on people with autogynephilia transitioning being ill advised, of hormones on kids not necessarily being ideal, on women's spaces, etc? They could have, and didn't.

Frankly, a little gatekeeping on their part instead of "yaaaaaaaaaas queening" everyone and anyone, even the mentally ill, would have helped their movement considerably and saved us a lot of pain- but they didn't.
 
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yourdadscumdumpster

1983’s evidence of why preggos shouldn’t drink
kiwifarms.net

One of the most cited articles in support of the mental safety of puberty blockers, Turban’s “Pubertal Suppression for Transgender Youth and Risk of Suicidal Ideation”, has been required to post an errata.
An error occurred in the article by Turban JL et al, titled “Pubertal Suppression for Transgender Youth and Risk of Suicidal Ideation,” published in the February 2020 issue of Pediatrics (2020:145[2]:e20191725; doi:10.1542/peds.2019-1725). The following disclosure was omitted: Dr JM Carswell has received an advisory board stipend from Endo Pharmaceuticals.

Whoops.
 

Groovelord Neato

kiwifarms.net

One of the most cited articles in support of the mental safety of puberty blockers, Turban’s “Pubertal Suppression for Transgender Youth and Risk of Suicidal Ideation”, has been required to post an errata.


Whoops.
Love to see what the mental condition is of people who have osteoporosis at 25 and/or are in pseudomenopause. Also the "halting" is closer to "ending" puberty so hope u like being dumber and eunuchoid or having goofy issues from not going through the biologically pre-programmed maturation process.

Like it's not at _all_ natural to stop this process. It's 100% meddling with an absolutely necessary part of human development by man.

More to the point Lupron and friends were tested for prostate cancer suppression -- effectively you chemically castrate yourself to stop the cancer -- and not at all on kids for safety & efficacy ("off label"). So on top of fucking around and finding out, you're also an experiment lmao
 

El_Cacahuate

always angry
kiwifarms.net
FTM bothers me much more than MTF, I blame them for starting all the current trans shit speech like "you don't need dysphoria to be trans", "all are valid your identity is valid", being creators of special genders, pronouns and more invented sexualities
There is also the fact that I have been more exposed to seeing FTM behaviors on the internet and I have so much to complain about them but I will not do it for now because they are things that have been said before
 

Maurice Caine

You talkin' to me?
kiwifarms.net
1619698533120.png


I found this atrocity floating around, bawled my eyes out and suddenly I'm in 2006 again
 

Existential MD

Certified Private Transvestigator
kiwifarms.net
FTM bothers me much more than MTF, I blame them for starting all the current trans shit speech like "you don't need dysphoria to be trans", "all are valid your identity is valid", being creators of special genders, pronouns and more invented sexualities
There is also the fact that I have been more exposed to seeing FTM behaviors on the internet and I have so much to complain about them but I will not do it for now because they are things that have been said before
The FTMs, like the beta handmaidens they are, also use the fact that they are female to push for MTF supremacy. Chase Strangio is a good case in point
 

Me? I'm Tight As Fuck

Not Whack
kiwifarms.net
FTM bothers me much more than MTF, I blame them for starting all the current trans shit speech like "you don't need dysphoria to be trans", "all are valid your identity is valid", being creators of special genders, pronouns and more invented sexualities
There is also the fact that I have been more exposed to seeing FTM behaviors on the internet and I have so much to complain about them but I will not do it for now because they are things that have been said before

I'm retarded and had a broad identity crisis a few years back. In the midst of a mental health episode, I thought I might be a tranny. After consulting with some other internet retards, I found that no matter where you go, the LGBTQWTFBBQ groups will validate, approve, and accept you no matter what. Feel like a Troon? You're a Troon. My experience only taught me that I'm not a Troon, and that the only troons who go around touting it are fastidiously holding onto their fantasy because they hate themselves and believe being the other gender will fix it. Unfortunately I got to see how easy it is to "cave in" to troonism - once you get close to it, it's like horny zombies pulling you into a perverted black hole, and it can seem like the solution to your problems simply because the echo chambers are unquestioningly accepting, even if you're a pervert or stupid.
 

polyqueerandrosensual

Somehow-not-a-Lolcow
kiwifarms.net
I'm retarded and had a broad identity crisis a few years back. In the midst of a mental health episode, I thought I might be a tranny. After consulting with some other internet retards, I found that no matter where you go, the LGBTQWTFBBQ groups will validate, approve, and accept you no matter what. Feel like a Troon? You're a Troon. My experience only taught me that I'm not a Troon, and that the only troons who go around touting it are fastidiously holding onto their fantasy because they hate themselves and believe being the other gender will fix it. Unfortunately I got to see how easy it is to "cave in" to troonism - once you get close to it, it's like horny zombies pulling you into a perverted black hole, and it can seem like the solution to your problems simply because the echo chambers are unquestioningly accepting, even if you're a pervert or stupid.
Similar experience here. I got nothing but compliments telling me how beautiful I was from a bunch of hons lmao
 

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