General transgender discussion thread - Take the tranny related debates here.

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ryu289

Person of Interest
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Special pleading is arguing that one set of circumstances be treated differently than a similar set of circumstances without explaining what makes them different.

I emphasized "medically intersex" and contrasted that with the author of the paper using intersex euphemistically.
And you using "medically" intersex is the strawman here. Tell me, what does "mecialy intersex" even mean?
Or what about a metaphor? Perhaps that would be a better way to describe it: the author was using "intersex" metaphorically.
How was it a metaphor to you then? Let's see:
These brain differences are sufficient enough to conclude that persons with a transsexual condition are intersexed. Simultaneously it is recognized that many intersexed persons will switch from their assigned gender, yet many will not.
How is this a "metaphor"?
 

GenociderSyo

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That journal is "Transsexuality in Theology and Neuroscience: Findings, Controversies and Perspectives" they have an inherent bias towards wanting to prove their point. It's also not even a research paper. No reason even to read this shit it's just a fluff piece.
 

Slobber Mutt

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Imagine this:
A Capitalist gets a Socialist to convince random mentally ill people that they are trannies by giving them the most secure and safe environment to adopt that identity without any challenge to their conviction whatsoever which would at least lead to organic self-assurance establishment and self-actualization.

The tranny then proceeds to waste inordinate amounts of money, whether personal, family money, inheritance, burger flipping, or gofundme donation whoring by trannyfaggots; on surgery, corrective surgery, medicine, painkillers, antidepressants, some of these things are lifetime.
>Trans-tech is a budding industry with an enormous opportunity, RKA claims. “Our estimates place the average cost of transition at $150,000 per person. Multiply that by an estimated population of 1.4 million transgender people, we’re taking about a market in excess of $200B. That is significant. That’s larger than the entire film industry.”

After the trannyfaggot is squeezed of all their money by the Capitalist, helped by their lack of challenge to their conviction, the absent organic process of self-actualization blows back into regret and misery of what they've done to themselves in the aftermath in a moment of clarity. They then suicide, which is perfect for Socialist as their death becomes a grift statistic to exploit.

The final masterful genius touch is Capitalists getting the Socialists to force the State to steal money from taxpayers to establish a welfare fund for trannyfaggots and their lifetimes meds and surgeries, to ensure that there is not a single trannyfaggot who can't afford it, which translates to 100% assured monetary flow into Capitalist hands of pharma and surgery clinics and even makeup and fashion industry.

It's glorious. It's harmony between Capitalism and Socialism, with the later fueling the former.
 

Marvin

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And you using "medically" intersex is the strawman here.
How is that a strawman?
Tell me, what does "mecialy intersex" even mean?
"Intersex" usually refers to people with DSDs, disorders (or differences) of sexual development. DSDs are congenital, meaning they've been there since birth. (That is, getting your nuts blown off by a grenade doesn't qualify as a DSD.)

"Medically intersex" is to emphasize the standard definition, not someone using it more metaphorically to refer to androgyny in general.
How was it a metaphor to you then? Let's see:
How is this a "metaphor"?
lol ok, yeah, you're right. That is indeed what this guy is saying. However, what this shows is that this guy is a moron.

Androgynous brain activity isn't a DSD, any more than height variations are a DSD.

There is no such thing as a medically intersex brain.
 

ryu289

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"Intersex" usually refers to people with DSDs, disorders (or differences) of sexual development. DSDs are congenital, meaning they've been there since birth. (That is, getting your nuts blown off by a grenade doesn't qualify as a DSD.)

"Medically intersex" is to emphasize the standard definition, not someone using it more metaphorically to refer to androgyny in general.
The term “intersex” is used to describe any condition in which genetic, gonadal, hormonal, and genital characteristics do not perfectly match those “typical” of the binary male or female.
Calling it a "disorder" has it's own issues
Androgynous brain activity isn't a DSD, any more than height variations are a DSD.
Don't you mean brain structure?
Yes, there are countless brain regions in which several characteristics (size, neuronal composition, neurotransmitters, etc.) have shown to be on average different between males and females [reviewed here]. Importantly, however, most of these characteristics are so variable that there is plenty of overlap between males and females rather than two distinct male and female forms. Furthermore, any one individual might be in a different place on the male-female spectrum for any particular brain characteristic. Thus, while one might be able to predict the sex of an individual via MRI with decent accuracy based on an algorithm accounting for many features, it would be nearly impossible to predict an individual’s specific brain characteristics based solely on their sex [again see here]. Earlier, we defined intersex individuals as those whose genetic, gonadal, hormonal, and genital sex characteristics do not perfectly match. Because there is so much individual variability among brains and brain regions, essentially the brain is more “intersex” than distinctly male or female. The brains of transgender individuals (even before hormone treatment) have been shown via several measures of brain structure to lie somewhere in between those of cisgender males and females [reviewed here] –evidence not only of a non-binary sex spectrum in the brain, but also biological validation of transgender identity.

So calling it "androgyny" is misleading.
A Capitalist gets a Socialist to convince random mentally ill people that they are trannies by giving them the most secure and safe environment to adopt that identity without any challenge to their conviction whatsoever which would at least lead to organic self-assurance establishment and self-actualization.
Have you ever considered it isn't about making money, nor scamming people?
 

Slobber Mutt

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Have you ever considered it isn't about making money, nor scamming people?
image.cfm


Look, they are also selling the cure in case you want to dip.
 

Marvin

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The term “intersex” is used to describe any condition in which genetic, gonadal, hormonal, and genital characteristics do not perfectly match those “typical” of the binary male or female.
Calling it a "disorder" has it's own issues
I'm using "condition" and "disorder" interchangeably. Intersex conditions come with health problems, sometimes very serious ones. They're not just a cute, harmless variation, like being left handed.
Earlier, we defined intersex individuals as those whose genetic, gonadal, hormonal, and genital sex characteristics do not perfectly match. Because there is so much individual variability among brains and brain regions, essentially the brain is more “intersex” than distinctly male or female.
No, read your definition again. Intersex people have medical conditions, not mere variations.

All sex characteristics vary to some degree, especially secondary sex characteristics, because their defining attributes aren't solely due to sex.

The key aspect that makes them intersex (versus just a normal variation in human biology) is that they're due to congenital medical conditions. A very short man or a very tall woman don't have an "intersexual height difference".

Saying brain variations are intersex is nonsensical. At best you can use the word intersex metaphorically there, but I think saying the brain is "asexual" would be a more descriptive metaphor.
The brains of transgender individuals (even before hormone treatment) have been shown via several measures of brain structure to lie somewhere in between those of cisgender males and females [reviewed here] –evidence not only of a non-binary sex spectrum in the brain, but also biological validation of transgender identity.
Not any more than extreme height variations are a validation of trans nonsense.
 

LeChampion1992

The true Le Champion
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I think in 90% of the cases most of the trans people are actually just autistic people. Who have been groomed into thinking that they're trans when in reality they're depressed and lonely from being in a atomized society. It's fairly clear when societies start not merely tolerating LGBTQ people but promoting it that societies days tends to be numbered.
 

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Miss Chance

Booo!!!!!!!
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@ryu289

Your very long winded posts about relative heights of men and women completely ignore the basic facts of the matter. Men are perceived as taller, generally, because of their body shape. Men are T-shaped, with an almost constant cross section through the torso, buttocks and hips. Women have extra mass above and below the waist, in the form of breasts and hips. As a result, the female body appears shorter. It's a real life example of the Muller-Lyer illusion.

MTF transgenders are still male bodied, in terms of basic body construction. Some have breasts, granted, but none have the female setup below the waist. They appear taller as a result.
 

Muskcarpone

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One thing that made trooning out so attractive over the last couple of years is that it allows white, middle class men who believe that the degree of marginalization of a peron isn't defined by observable material conditions but by their identities as defined by society to feel better about themselves. This way, a white man who had been profiting from economic and racial unequality his whole life can now instantly claim opression by announcing that he is now and has always been "trans". At least in their minds, this opens up everything they want: the much coveted status of opressed marginalization without any of the actual downsides (poverty, below-average access to education, etc). It allows them to feel morally superior to "white cis men" in spite of the previous lifelong advantage gained from being part of prescisely that demographic.

Now the white man beautiful transwoman is finally able to pass judgement on black women who don't want exhibitionists in their safe spaces, send rape threats to women who don't think violent men should be incarcerated in female prisons and righteously feel self pity at having it so much harder than everybody else. No wonder it is appealing to men who are already frustrated at not fulfilling their own and their environment's expectations in them. Being trans allows them to vent their frustration and make everybody else pay while wallowing in self-pity, the one emotion that simultaneously allows you to feel miserable and superior to everybody else.
 

Cilleystring

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I think in 90% of the cases most of the trans people are actually just autistic people. Who have been groomed into thinking that they're trans when in reality they're depressed and lonely from being in a atomized society. It's fairly clear when societies start not merely tolerating LGBTQ people but promoting it that societies days tends to be numbered.
I can't remember who it was now, but there was a good video on YouTube a while back of an autistic guy who transitioned then de-transitioned and gave a really good rundown about how autistic people get roped into thinking they're trans. Basically its what you said here. Autists feeling lonely and confused in society and looking for a place to fit in, and the autogynephiliacs trying to groom them into "trans". Felt bad for the guy.

Somewhere in all this mess there are a couple legitimate gender dysphoria patients that must be shaking their heads.
 

IAmNotAlpharius

Nothing to see here. Move along citizen.
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One thing that made trooning out so attractive over the last couple of years is that it allows white, middle class men who believe that the degree of marginalization of a peron isn't defined by observable material conditions but by their identities as defined by society to feel better about themselves. This way, a white man who had been profiting from economic and racial unequality his whole life can now instantly claim opression by announcing that he is now and has always been "trans". At least in their minds, this opens up everything they want: the much coveted status of opressed marginalization without any of the actual downsides (poverty, below-average access to education, etc). It allows them to feel morally superior to "white cis men" in spite of the previous lifelong advantage gained from being part of prescisely that demographic.

Now the white man beautiful transwoman is finally able to pass judgement on black women who don't want exhibitionists in their safe spaces, send rape threats to women who don't think violent men should be incarcerated in female prisons and righteously feel self pity at having it so much harder than everybody else. No wonder it is appealing to men who are already frustrated at not fulfilling their own and their environment's expectations in them. Being trans allows them to vent their frustration and make everybody else pay while wallowing in self-pity, the one emotion that simultaneously allows you to feel miserable and superior to everybody else.
You’re spot on. The whole gender fluid thing is just a way for the middle, upper middle, and upper classes to escape their supposed privilege. It’s more attractive to male Anglo-Americans, but it’s also why Zoomers come up with 1000s of ways of being straight with extra steps.
 

Much Ado About Nothing

Autism, just another service I provide
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@ryu289
Since we are in the general trans-trend thread, I thought I'd try to stay on subject today.
A while ago on you wrote about how it was harmless to teach kids about consent and kinks.
1632860097613.png

You have an interesting kink which roots in transformation. Occasionally you decide to include cartoon children in this. Have you attempted to enlighten children about the joys of this kink?
 

celebrityskin

!عاش بني معروف
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You’re spot on. The whole gender fluid thing is just a way for the middle, upper middle, and upper classes to escape their supposed privilege. It’s more attractive to male Anglo-Americans, but it’s also why Zoomers come up with 1000s of ways of being straight with extra steps.
and instead of fully blown trooning out, you can just say that "you don't need dysphoria to be trans" and "non binary people don't owe you androgyny", which just shows that these terms mean nothing. You can get 'intersectional' street cred by not lifting a finger.
 

Amber the Hedgehog

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One thing that made trooning out so attractive over the last couple of years is that it allows white, middle class men who believe that the degree of marginalization of a peron isn't defined by observable material conditions but by their identities as defined by society to feel better about themselves. This way, a white man who had been profiting from economic and racial unequality his whole life can now instantly claim opression by announcing that he is now and has always been "trans". At least in their minds, this opens up everything they want: the much coveted status of opressed marginalization without any of the actual downsides (poverty, below-average access to education, etc). It allows them to feel morally superior to "white cis men" in spite of the previous lifelong advantage gained from being part of prescisely that demographic.

Now the white man beautiful transwoman is finally able to pass judgement on black women who don't want exhibitionists in their safe spaces, send rape threats to women who don't think violent men should be incarcerated in female prisons and righteously feel self pity at having it so much harder than everybody else. No wonder it is appealing to men who are already frustrated at not fulfilling their own and their environment's expectations in them. Being trans allows them to vent their frustration and make everybody else pay while wallowing in self-pity, the one emotion that simultaneously allows you to feel miserable and superior to everybody else.
I agree that trans having good points in oppression olympics plays part on white men transition but kinda disagree with everything else. There is absolutely no guarantee that these men have benefited meaningfully from economic and racial inequality, because that's how being an individual works. Just because on average black people make less money, doesn't mean that black person will be poor or even underpaid. Averages and group trends are derived from individuals but don't tell about individual situations or circumstances. Also it really sucks to be a white man right now.

White men get accused alot having it too good regardless of their circumstances to point that white men are heavily socially punished for raising any issues and are denied to be able to meet meaningful disadvantages. If you are a white man you are expected to shut up, listen and take it, no matter how unfair because you deserve it for being a white man. If you're white man and not doing or feeling where can you turn to? Who is there to stand up for you, to give you a helping hand? Outside of friends and family, basic public resources witch are constantly pressured to prioritize everyone else because history.

So if you're a white man with issues and you go trans you have so much more resources and social potential in your hands. To many white men this is the first time when they have any meaningful power like that so of course some of them are going to play and abuse it. To go trans you need to be bit loopy in a first place and so antisocial behavior isn't unexpected even though it's still wrong.
 

Muskcarpone

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I agree that trans having good points in oppression olympics plays part on white men transition but kinda disagree with everything else. There is absolutely no guarantee that these men have benefited meaningfully from economic and racial inequality, because that's how being an individual works. Just because on average black people make less money, doesn't mean that black person will be poor or even underpaid. Averages and group trends are derived from individuals but don't tell about individual situations or circumstances. Also it really sucks to be a white man right now.

White men get accused alot having it too good regardless of their circumstances to point that white men are heavily socially punished for raising any issues and are denied to be able to meet meaningful disadvantages. If you are a white man you are expected to shut up, listen and take it, no matter how unfair because you deserve it for being a white man. If you're white man and not doing or feeling where can you turn to? Who is there to stand up for you, to give you a helping hand? Outside of friends and family, basic public resources witch are constantly pressured to prioritize everyone else because history.

So if you're a white man with issues and you go trans you have so much more resources and social potential in your hands. To many white men this is the first time when they have any meaningful power like that so of course some of them are going to play and abuse it. To go trans you need to be bit loopy in a first place and so antisocial behavior isn't unexpected even though it's still wrong.
I should have been more precise, then. What I was trying to say is that a lot of troons started out as failed men inasmuch as that they failed their own expectations for what their lives as at least nominally privileged people (the much hated white cis men) should have held in stock for them. Of course, their own failure and the success of others usually rests on a lot of individual accomplishments or lack thereof, but they hardly see it that way because then they would have to admit to themselves that it is not "the system" that failed them, but they themselves.
 

Fougaro

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I want to apologise in advance if I bring up shit that has been discussed ad nauseam because I frankly lack the time, the autism and the stamina to go through 88 pages of troonposting. I'll mainly just address OP's question.

How do people become trannies? Disregarding some extreme fringe cases like individuals being forced into it, North American men legally changing their gender to cheese the feminist system or Iranian homosexuals trooning out to avoid the death penalty for being gay, I've noticed three main origin stories.

1. Gender dysphoria
When basically your brain chemistry is all fucked up to the point you feel trapped into the wrong gender's body. Some really extreme cases can result into that one guy Josh did a stream on who felt he was a pad (which he stopped after getting HRT). Gender dysphoria can, especially among young children, be treated through psycho- and hormone therapy. If gone untreated to a certain age, it's too late.

2. Untreated trauma
Which I believe should be self-explanatory. Similar to how paedophiles and some homosexuals are made, being a victim of emotional, sexual or other physical abuse, especially during your childhood, can fuck you up to the point you become a tranny. Similarly to gender dysphoria, the damages done here can be fixed, or at the very least band-aided, through competent and professional psychotherapy.

3. Escapism
Basically when your life is at the tail end of a downward spiral you see trooning out as a possible salvation. When you're plagued by a myriad of issues like for example being morbidly obese, an addict, short, ugly, an incel/femcel or having little to no self-esteem to speak of or being otherwise maladjusted to the point of getting disgusted by your own body and you lack the strength, the will and the support network to improve your situation, you'll see getting under the knife as an increasingly tempting option. However shitty your situation may be, it gets even amplified if you have autism. This is for example my hypothesis on why Jim Sterling and Digipaedo trooned out. After the initial euphoria of escaping into your "new" body and "new" life as fizzles out, you will get brutally hit by the realisation that whatever problems you had, could have possibly all been solved, except for the problem that you irreparably mutilated your body and threw your hormone system out of whack. Just like a person who jumps off a bridge and realises that all their problems could have been solved except for the fact that they just jumped off a bridge. The thought process of trooning out as a form of escape is eerily similar to suicide. And speaking of which, this is where the 41% come from. Personally I believe that the overwhelming majority of trannies fall under this category.

Of course those categories aren't mutually exclusive and do often overlap, especially 2. and 3..
Discuss the validity of transgender ideology here.
From a scientific standpoint there is hardly any validity to speak of. The biological reality is that in order to change your sex, like for example the protagonist in Ranma ½, you'd have to do it on a genetic level, for which medical technology is, as I'm writing this, not sophisticated enough yet. Maybe one day if you could transplant your brain into a cyborg body that looks like the opposite sex, though that would open a different set of can of worms.

How valid is it socio-politically? I'd say it has proven both its validity and viability as a political movement beyond any reasonable doubt. As I said in other threads, political troonism is how feminism monkey pawed itself. Whatever arguments you may have for why women should have the same rights as men, are the exact same arguments trannies use for why they should be treated like women. The system that feminists have established that lets women LARP as men at the expense of men, is now being used by men to LARP as women at the expense of women. And the results speak for themselves. Trannies have politically been lately gathering Ws left and right to the point where feminism - for the first time in its history in the western civilised world - has been getting BTFO'd and steamrolled mercilessly. In every legal and political fight between women and trannies, the trannies will almost always win because in a zeitgeist that values equality above everything else, the system has no choice but to side with the trannies. As a result you have trannies in female sports, showers, bathrooms, prison etc. Trannies are also undermining and hijacking women's issues and rights. And on top of that, the (North American) lesbian community has now been all but completely subverted and overtaken by trannies to the point where lesbian women are now shamed into having sex with troons. In other words, trannies have achieved what MRAs and the political right could only dream of.

Politically troonism is a massive success story. Individually it's nothing but a tragedy.

That's my entire take on the trans question. Sorry for the wall of 'tism and assburgers.
 
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