Gov. Newsome Halts death penalties in CA. - O Come All Ye Murderers

NeoGAF Lurker

An Niggo
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The death penalty is banned in my state but we’re also 90%+ white so we barely need to consider it. For a vibrant hellhole like California, I’d definitely reconsider.
 
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HeyYou

seriousposter
kiwifarms.net
Voters as a whole are not competent enough to decide between literal life and death. Getting more convictions and imposing harsher sentences is seen as a positive thing by the general populace because it’s “tough on crime”.

But when it comes time to get into whether or not those convictions were obtained ethically, or those sentences were motivated by factors like race and gender, or how many of those convicts later get exonerated because they’ve been innocent the whole time, those same voters tune out because it’s not an issue they’ll ever have to deal with personally.

Look no further than Nancy Grace’s celebrity status as an authority on justice even though she got caught withholding exculpatory evidence back when she was a prosecutor for proof of the general public’s blind faith in a broken system.
Of course voters can be idiots. Except, we're a democracy/republic/whatever and not an authoritarian state. You can't just go "well the common plebs voted for this, but I'm so much smarter so I'm actually doing THIS." That's not a democracy. It is not within the governor's purview to throw out laws he doesn't like, that it is not his job. It is within his job to veto laws making it more harsh, encouraging the institutions under his command to be fair and not corrupt in sentencing people to death and encouraging the legislative body to review their laws. I'm most certainly not in favor of determining some things as so important that common people can't decide it, it's so ripe for abuse it's unbelievable.
 
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Testaclese Maximus

as friendly as a rabbit
True & Honest Fan
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Except, we're a democracy/republic/whatever and not an authoritarian state. You can't just go "well the common plebs voted for this, but I'm so much smarter so I'm actually doing THIS." That's not a democracy.
The death penalty shouldn’t even be considered constitutional, as spending years and sometimes decades hanging a prisoner’s imminent death over their head is cruel and unusual. The practice has no place in a civilized society and should have been left behind a long time ago.
 

NeoGAF Lurker

An Niggo
kiwifarms.net
The death penalty shouldn’t even be considered constitutional, as spending years and sometimes decades hanging a prisoner’s imminent death over their head is cruel and unusual. The practice has no place in a civilized society and should have been left behind a long time ago.
America is rapidly deteriorating into a third world country thanks to demographics. Our previous assumptions of what civilized society looks like is getting tossed out the window.
 

SunLightStreak

Elite Illuminati Task Force Agent for Cow Control
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Speaking as someone who dislikes the death penalty anyways (because of trust issues related to government corruption and incompetence) do you have a citation for that last bit?
There is this from the innocence project:

https://www.innocenceproject.org/causes/false-confessions-admissions/

When 1 out of every 4 people exonerated by DNA evidence actually confessed to the crime, that is a problem.

There is also this:

https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/False-Confessions-.aspx

They mention a few cases where a person confesses falsely get overturned, but the system relies on breaking mentally handicapped people and younger suspects.

There is one case sited of a man who confessed 2 times and had the police rewrite the confession because of conflicting evidence to his forced confession. With this brand of entrapment by members of law enforcement: I would strongly suggest the death penalty be shelved.

Also that story cited by @Testaclese Maximus maximus was based on this study:

https://www.pnas.org/content/111/20/7230

We all know studies can be misleading. Still, when you're adding the penalty of death as a factor to a criminal justice system that seems this flawed; it seems like a bad idea to keep executing people without some stronger guardrails on police interrogators and prosecutors.
 

HeyYou

seriousposter
kiwifarms.net
The death penalty shouldn’t even be considered constitutional, as spending years and sometimes decades hanging a prisoner’s imminent death over their head is cruel and unusual. The practice has no place in a civilized society and should have been left behind a long time ago.
Death row inmates aren't on death row for so long on purpose, it's due to a combination of factors, from appeals to actually acquiring the drugs to inject them with. There's a lot of problems with death row but much of that time is spent hearing new testimony or examining new evidence. Also, I would hope you know that it was already declared by the Supreme Court that the death penalty is not cruel and unusual as long as it's regulated and humane, in a few compounding cases. The ACLU certainly can get pissy about it all they want, but that's the official ruling. Once again, I don't agree with it personally, but the death penalty is 100% legal.
 

Pocket Dragoon

For one-tenth a soul, or a sexual favor.
kiwifarms.net
...... if you want to kill the death penalty then maybe try actually catching the bad guys. They've gone and made the prisons safer by not throwing the switch on offenders when they should focus more on making the streets safer for people who would never be in a criminal position to begin with.
California would need to spend a pittance on policing; if the people were allowed the tools to defend themselves, provided simple education on tool safety (FREE! Courtesy of the NRA/GOA), and afforded at least a modicum of support when forced to lawfully use said tools.

But that timeline is so far removed from current-year, it might as well be custard.
 

Belligerent Monk

Lives for Macabre Humor
kiwifarms.net
His reason is "personal" because he'd feel bad. If you're making policies because of PERSONAL feelings you shouldn't be a lawmaker ya fucking exceptional individual
This dude was mayor of San Francisco for a while too. You should see the homeless Mecca he left behind with his flagship "Care not Cash" program.
 
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Autopsy

kiwifarms.net
This is a complicated discussion with an excessive number of moving parts, riddled with hypocrisy, poorly thought out solutions, and appeals to the long past or overly idealistic futures, and I could spend a few hours finding issue with every take in this thread so-far- but it would be pointless because the Governor who spawned this thread is a manchild.
The utterly fucked up state of rehabilitative and punitive justice across the globe but especially in America does not constitute a free excuse to grandstand and whinge about black and brown discrimination in criminal justice that has never been substantiated past absolutely absurd single-variable studies that universally fall apart with any examination of the sources of the data therein. Nondiscrimination is the only truly functional part of our justice system At some point there needs to be a coalition of Judges to prosecute these shitheads who, without basis or specific evidence, loudly and publicly accuse them of discrimination.
The only comforting thing about this article is that outside of the U.S.'s PR to the world (Look, honey, they throw blacks in jail and murder them! For no reason!), as a Governor, Newsome can only really muck up California.
 
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TowinKarz

Thoroughly Unimpressed
kiwifarms.net
The death penalty shouldn’t even be considered constitutional, as spending years and sometimes decades hanging a prisoner’s imminent death over their head is cruel and unusual. The practice has no place in a civilized society and should have been left behind a long time ago.
The USSC disagrees with that assessment, it has consistently upheld that the DP, assuming (and here's the rub) that proper due process has been followed, is Constitutional and does not violate the 5th amendment.

The only reason it's torturous and drawn-out is because of endless appeals filed, if they're arguing it takes too long, they have nobody but themselves to blame. This is circular reasoning 101.

"You can't execute someone unless you are absolutely SURE of his guilt!"

"We've spent 20 years reviewing the whole case across dozens of appeals, heard every single one, and can't find anything wrong"

"But it took 20 years! You can't hold his death over his head like that!"


You can object to it, you can have issues with it's inconsistent and shady application by questionably-motivated prosecutors, but, you cannot make the argument that it's not legal. It is. And your objections should not be flaws introduced into the system merely to make it difficult to the point said difficulty becomes an issue. Don't gum up the works and then say the machine doesn't work.
 
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Far Queue

kiwifarms.net
It's not the end of the death penalty, this was an executive order by him alone. The death penalty is still on the books as legal.
Considering his predecessor dropped knowingly giving someone HIV from a felony down to a misdemeanor, I don't think there's going to be any shortage of people getting lethal injections in California anytime soon.
 

Testaclese Maximus

as friendly as a rabbit
True & Honest Fan
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"We've spent 20 years reviewing the whole case across dozens of appeals, heard every single one, and can't find anything wrong"

"But it took 20 years! You can't hold his death over his head like that!"
It takes so long because ideally the case should be airtight before someone is executed, and the length of time it takes is cruel. Ergo, we just shouldn’t do it. It’s not the logic or the argument that’s circular, thr fallacy is in the very idea that there’s any scenario where a civilized government can regularly apply the death penalty without it being immoral or flawed.
 

MembersSchoolPizza

kiwifarms.net
On the one hand, I have no problem with the death sentence as a concept.

On the other hand, it runs into the "people fucking suck" problem, so in practice I'm against the death penalty, because no-takesey-backsey is a real problem.

On the prehensile tail, fuck this end-run around the will of the voters.
 
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Capsaicin Addict

Just a fellow who loves spicy food.
kiwifarms.net
There is this from the innocence project:

https://www.innocenceproject.org/causes/false-confessions-admissions/

When 1 out of every 4 people exonerated by DNA evidence actually confessed to the crime, that is a problem.

There is also this:

https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/False-Confessions-.aspx

They mention a few cases where a person confesses falsely get overturned, but the system relies on breaking mentally handicapped people and younger suspects.

There is one case sited of a man who confessed 2 times and had the police rewrite the confession because of conflicting evidence to his forced confession. With this brand of entrapment by members of law enforcement: I would strongly suggest the death penalty be shelved.

Also that story cited by @Testaclese Maximus maximus was based on this study:

https://www.pnas.org/content/111/20/7230

We all know studies can be misleading. Still, when you're adding the penalty of death as a factor to a criminal justice system that seems this flawed; it seems like a bad idea to keep executing people without some stronger guardrails on police interrogators and prosecutors.
I suspect what we need is less an overhaul or elimination of the death penalty and more an overhaul of our law enforcement and judicial systems. In particular, make it so pants-shittingly terrifying to commit legal malfeasance -- whether you're a cop, a lawyer, or a judge -- that anyone who even THINKS about it should shudder at the consequences.

While I don't think overturning Warren vs DC is feasible, the qualified immunity protections need to be peeled back considerably, particularly in cases where prosecutors have committed due process violations.
 

SunLightStreak

Elite Illuminati Task Force Agent for Cow Control
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I suspect what we need is less an overhaul or elimination of the death penalty and more an overhaul of our law enforcement and judicial systems. In particular, make it so pants-shittingly terrifying to commit legal malfeasance -- whether you're a cop, a lawyer, or a judge -- that anyone who even THINKS about it should shudder at the consequences.

While I don't think overturning Warren vs DC is feasible, the qualified immunity protections need to be peeled back considerably, particularly in cases where prosecutors have committed due process violations.
That is my position on the death penalty. Fix the system to stop instances of gross abuse first before trusting it to decide to put people to death.

Hell, the Duke Lacrosse Case may have been ages ago, but it was a perfect example of what can happen when a prosecutor and a police force are absolutely determined to convict someone. If the 3 students hadn't had such rich families, they would have been put in jail and branded sex offenders all on the word of a woman who would eventually murder her own boyfriend. It did more than show the flaws in academia with professors falling over each other to condemn the students without a trial. It showed the serious flaws of the criminal justice system.

If this can happen when we know about it, what happens when our eyes aren't on the system.
 
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