Gun Control -

[c-no]

This has been on my mind for a variety reason (Owning a couple shotguns, the shootings that have occured such as Sandy Hook, the debates for and against gun control, writing a paper on gun control and giving a speech on it) and so I decide to ask : What are your thoughts on gun control? Do you think more gun control is just going to lead to some form of tyranny, do you think lax gun control will just lead to more massacres? Please, post your thoughts on gun control. As the rules say, don't flame anyone for it or against it.

 

[Zeorus]

I don't think that gun control by definition is a form of tyranny - there are certain controls that are simply a matter of practicality and common sense (this is why we don't give guns to children or the mentally ill). There's certainly the potential for oppression, but I don't believe restrictions on where guns are allowed by definition fit the bill.

Edit/addendum: saw the bit about more massacres and I wanted to note that I think the rash of gun massacres has more to do with the American cultural fetishization of firearms than the laws regarding their use.

 

[Chikinballs]

Murderers are criminals. They dont fucking care about gun laws.

 

[Zeorus]

Murderers are criminals. They dont fucking care about gun laws.

I agree. That's why I view this as more of a cultural/societal problem than a legal issue.

 

[Grand Number of Pounds]

This is actually an issue I'm very passionate about. I'm against gun control because I don't think there is any evidence that it works.

See for reference (out of date, but still relevant)

That said, I only plan to own air guns for various reasons.

 

[Foulmouth]

Over here guns are pretty fairly controlled and hard to get which I think is a good thing but crime and mad shit is up which leaves me considering getting one .
Because of our strict gun laws I'd have to buy it illegally which is a fuckin' conundrum right there.
I guess I figure if a high proportion of scum are armed then I too wish to be .

 

[Chikinballs]

Over here guns are pretty fairly controlled and hard to get which I think is a good thing but crime and mad shit is up which leaves me considering getting one .
Because of our strict gun laws I'd have to buy it illegally which is a fuckin' conundrum right there.
I guess I figure if a high proportion of scum are armed then I too wish to be .

Legislated out of your right to defend yourself.

This is susanna gratia hupp. She left her pistol in her car to comply with the laws in texas. A madman drove his car through the window of the diner they were at and opened fire. He killed both her parents. This is her testimony on "gun control".

 

[The Hunter]

Against gun control here.

Albeit there are obvious precautions to take when selling guns (like, you know, mental health and criminal background checks). That's about it for me, though. Any law abiding citizen of the United States should be allowed to own a firearm for sport or self defense. Although my opinion on this doesn't stop me from voting Democratic. Gay marriage, education, equal pay, basic human rights > gun control.

 

[hellbound]

The founding fathers put the second amendment in for a reason, and it's not hunting. It's not even self-defense, though they certainly recognized that right.

This nation was founded through revolt against a tyrannical government, and they recognized you can't do that without arms. I don't think that gun control leads to tyranny, I'd say generally it's a symptom of tyranny, or a means by which wannabe tyrants secure the way for tyranny.

And I'm not saying it's always full-on oppression, getting killed for speaking out and what have you. It can be petty tyrannies, things most people don't notice or accept like using government power to seize land for the sake of businesses (see Kelo v. New London for example).

Nor am I saying that the responsible course of action for things like that is to kill the government. Of course it isn't. Armed revolt should always be the last, most desperate option. I'm saying gun control is the removal of peoples' last, most desperate option under guise of making them safer.

 

[Pikonic]

Many gun crimes are done with guns obtained illegally, Adam Lanza went to Sandy Hook with a gun he had stolen. Laws will not stop people who break laws.
Also, Connecticut's governor Dan Malloy is a huge advocate for strict gun control despite having a son who is a convicted felon for B&E and illegal firearm ownenship.
http://m.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Son-of-ex-mayor-sentenced-to-probation-in-283325.php

I find that interesting.
Edit: oops, that article was for his armed robbery, I'll have to find his B&E article later. The Malloys everyone.

 

[exball]

I don't really think gun control helps that much. I could murder someone with a sock if I was hellbent on killing someone. Plus, China has pretty heavy gun control and they still have tons of stabbing murders.

 

[BT 075]

I know they have as much if not more guns per person in Switserland then they have in the States, and very few shootings ever happen there. I am therefore inclined to say guns themselves aren't as much a problem as the people using them.

I say license the fuckers, keep them out of the reach of children and unstable people and you'll be good to go. No guns under pillows and on night stands or any of that shit. It's a matter of personal responsibility basically. But I'm not a member of the "all guns are bad" crowd. I say this not because of constitutional amendments, patriotism or any of that shizzle as I'm not an American myself. It's pretty much common sense.

 

[Marvin]

The "da criminals will always get guns" argument is retarded. With enough money, you can get anything. Hell, you can probably buy people if you really wanted to. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have laws against slavery.

Largely, gun control is a topic that large scale political groups bring up to stir up people into a frenzy. Like gays marrying or 9/11 or creationism. I'm sure without those groups trying to tweak the voters, you could discuss the subject rationally and trivially come to agreements that anyone could support.

Because of the second amendment, you can't make guns illegal in the United States, but that doesn't imply zero regulations. You aren't entitled to stroll into a shop and buy a gun, no questions asked, like it's a candy bar. So having guns being available implies having some laws on the subject. To start with, I think most people would agree to having registries of the crazies, that you have to check when you transfer a gun.

The one issue that it seems like people disagree on is the role of gun show transfers. As far as federal laws go, if you're not a dedicated gun seller (like, if you don't work in a gun shop), you're not required to do the background checks. It sounds like they didn't want to mess with people who might be going hunting with family, or giving a family member a gun or something. But at a gun show, like, from the customers perspective, it's essentially the same thing as a gun shop. It's lines of people selling guns. Lots of merchandise. Really, I don't get why people are fighting so hard to keep the gun show transfer exception intact.

Oh, and we need to make the punishments for buying or selling guns illegally extremely severe. Yeah, there will always be desperate people who have no other options in life other than to turn to crime, but we can still scare some of them away with severe laws. If you're living in slums, yeah, dealing drugs might be your best option, but to a kid in the suburbs, it might not be worth the risk.

 

[KatsuKitty]

Boy, am I watching this one.

 

[Surtur]

Real men use swords.

 

[Marvin]

Real men use swords.

Heh, y'know, when I was a teenager, my best friend was moving away to japan or some shit, and I got him a sword as a going away present. Kind of a dorky present, but at the time, I thought it was pretty cool.

 

[Surtur]

Heh, y'know, when I was a teenager, my best friend was moving away to japan or some shit, and I got him a sword as a going away present. Kind of a dorky present, but at the time, I thought it was pretty cool.

Its the thought that counts.

 

[Duke Nukem]

I'm all right with certain measures, such as background checks and transfers (I'm currently working with an FFL dealer in my area to transfer a Russian VEPR-12 shotgun to my ownership), or licensing carry, but I think that trying to add more items to the blacklist every time an Eric Harris/Adam Lanza type flips his lid/loses his shit and goes on a rampage is an exercise in futility. That being said, most people are not batshit crazy or full of rage enough to do stuff like that. Background checks and transfers between licensed dealers and individuals are actual controls, outlawing certain cosmetic features or detachable magazines is not.

I say if you do not like firearms, that is fine, you can choose not own one. That being said, I am also against laws requiring you to be armed (there are towns that have local ordinances like that). I say leave it up to the individual.

Honestly, I'm pro-choice on just about everything. Gay marriage? Go ahead, get married. Abortion? No problem. Religion? Worship whoever/whatever you want.

The thing though that gets me about some so called "liberal" or "progressive" types is how they claim to be so pro-choice on everything else, and yet, when the issue of private firearm ownership comes up, the gears in their brains screech to a halt and they reverse that pro-choice attitude when it comes to that. It's weird to me, that's all.

It's hypocrisy, is what it is.

 

[Marvin]

Honestly, I'm pro-choice on just about everything. Gay marriage? Go ahead, get married. Abortion? No problem. Religion? Worship whoever/whatever you want.

The thing though that gets me about some so called "liberal" or "progressive" types is how they claim to be so pro-choice on everything else, and yet, when the issue of private firearm ownership comes up, the gears in their brains screech to a halt and they reverse that pro-choice attitude when it comes to that. It's weird to me, that's all.

It's hypocrisy, is what it is.

Eh, it might be unjustified (you gotta do the research to decide whether that's true or not), but it's not hypocrisy. People are pro-choice on things specifically because there aren't reasons to care, other than they're just getting cranky about stuff. They aren't public issues. Caring about guns is a public issue because, y'know, the whole illegal gun market exists because of fuckups in the system.

Pro choice doesn't mean, "hey, do whatever the fuck you want!" It means that there's a barrel of stupid shit that people are legislating that aren't public issues.

 

[Duke Nukem]

Eh, it might be unjustified (you gotta do the research to decide whether that's true or not), but it's not hypocrisy. People are pro-choice on things specifically because there aren't reasons to care, other than they're just getting cranky about stuff. They aren't public issues. Caring about guns is a public issue because, y'know, the whole illegal gun market exists because of fuckups in the system.

Pro choice doesn't mean, "hey, do whatever the fuck you want!" It means that there's a barrel of stupid shit that people are legislating that aren't public issues.

I do see your point, but it's like someone who's a vegetarian bitching at me because I choose to eat a steak. It is most certainly unjustified, but what I am saying is that I respect other people's choices, and I demand the same respect for mine. That's why I said it was hypocrisy, and quite often, and sometimes, I don't even get that kind of respect from members of my family. Growing up in a hardcore liberal/progressive family and household, I gradually shed the beliefs I was indoctrinated with, and came up with some thoughts of my own, but that's a story for another day.

There are fuckups in the system, and yes, I do think background checks for private sales are a good idea, but it is very difficult to enforce. Citizens are not allowed public access to the NICS background check system, and I think this would at least help cut down on illegal sales, or at least, unknowing sales to someone who isn't allowed to own a firearm. Also, another reason we do not have a federal registry is because felons who possess firearms would have to admit to committing a crime, and the Fifth Amendment protects the individual against self-incrimination. That and the possibility of imposing a 10,000% tax on ownership or whatever. Believe me, it has been proposed and sometimes come close to fruition.

The illegal gun market exists in many other countries as well, especially those where they are legally restricted from private ownership. Brazil is much stricter on firearm ownership, and yet, the gangs that rule the favelas are heavily armed. I'm not saying it's all cut and dried or anything, but it seems that for the most part, countries with the strictest gun control tend to turn into police states, or are ruled by drug cartels (such as Mexico) and other criminal organizations.