Harley Quinn - DC Universe Series - Verdict s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶ I̶N̶. out again.

FernandoPooTragedy

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Hmmm. It could be the ex-Mossad guy, I hadn't thought of that. It's just that anti-Semitism isn't usually the form of racism that progressives get upset about. Same caveat also applies which is that I don't think it's anti-Semitic to have an ex-Mossad villain. Frankly, Sy trying to dispose of bodies and talking about how it's just like the old days is something hilariously dark given the number of people Mossad has murdered over the decades. I think you're right - it's got to be Queen of Fables. Having a Black character who is a villain has to be racism, ne?.



So thinking about what you said I think it's helped me verbalize one of the things I'm really enjoying about this show. In this episode, Harley realizes she really fucked up. She also realizes that her views on love are really pretty sad compared to Poison Ivy+Kiteman and Freeze+Nora's real experiences of mutual love. And the aspect of this which is really great is that Harley's arc isn't about realizing how awesome she really is once she's no longer having her self-image wrecked by an abusive partner (though that's part of her arc and that's fine). It's also about realising that she herself has been a bad person and that she is responsible for being a better one. We got that theme in the mindscape episode as well where she realises she jumped into the chemicals willingly and wasn't pushed like she told herself. This is something entirely missing in comics and Margot Robbie Harley and is a big part of why those arcs are so flawed and so appealing to the Tumblerinas. Their version puts all responsibility on others. This Harley has a much more difficult path ahead of her.

I mean lets face it, Harley is objectively speaking a truly awful person, even to her friends. (She repeatedly wrecks Poison Ivy's stuff and lost her her home whilst living there rent free and last episode cost her fiances dream wedding because yet again she needed Poison Ivy to come over and bail her out). Why the tumblerinas want Poison Ivy to lose a healthy relationship with a person who truly loves her in favour of a murderous, home-wrecking freeloader, I don't know. (Well, that's rhetorical - we know why). But I've always found Harley Quin an interesting character. What I've disliked has been the moral free-pass she's been given more recently. Even the free-spirit 'innocent villain' original version from B:TAS wasn't given that. E.g. the episode where she's out on parole and trying to go straight. I do fear a little bit how this series will go but I thank them for recognizing that a real character arc has to include self-criticism and genuine improvement. Not just magical "I was wonderful all along" realisation.

I hope the writers come across this thread one day. I'd love them to read our comments.

You'd be surprised about the anti-semitism thing. People on all areas of the political spectrum are weird about Trump's Chosen People. They're what I call "off white" (for the whites ones, I mean), because they're only white when it is convenient for whatever political narrative you're spinning. Anyways, in that exceptional post, among the replies are claims that the show "erases" the fact that Harley is one of Trump's Chosen People. Even though they... don't? At all? She's literally using a Menorah for light this season. And they made it clear last season when we met her family what her ethnicity is. But another poster debunked this and said something like I guess if she's not wearing a Yamulke and slapping pork out of peoples' mouths from episode one it's "erasure" lol.

I could tell that this thing was written by Trump's Chosen People. Smart ones with a goddamn sense of humor and grasp of character.

But yeah, this show has a MUCH better grasp of character than the recent comics. I actually liked in Birds of Prey where Harley was legit going to sell Cain off to Black Mask, but I would have liked a better resolution to that than a simple change of heart. I LOVE Harley's character but I got sick of her comics LONG ago because she was either a perfect zany angel baby or a complete idiot and it was like... fuck that.

I like how they touched on Ivy's shift in her activities with the Catwoman episode, too. TBF, the last time we saw Ivy go Eco-terrorist she got caught and experimented in, so... yeah, surprised they didn't bring up that detail.
 

Overly Serious

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I never watched the series but seeing comments like these makes me interested in watching it because I enjoyed Harley in BTAS and really dislike her modern portrayal as Female Deadpool who could do no wrong, glad to see a show is addressing that she is also a bad person would intrigue me now since Harley is put into a box of characters who are abuse victims (this is especially common on Tumblr, or really Twitter since let's be real, Twitter is the new Tumblr) where people think that just because they are an abuse victim they are automatically pure instead of being just as flawed as any other human being which based on this I am glad they are addressing.
Your views on this are exactly my views on this. I loathe the modern moral-pedestal-lol-random Harley and like you I loved the original back in the day. This Harley is not that Harley but is her own Harley. If you're looking for something that does a complete 180 on the whole 'woman reclaiming her independence and overcoming sexism' then this isn't that. But nor should it be. That's a valid narrative. But what this show does is do it with self-awareness and less virtue signalling. But more importantly than all of that, it's funny which Harley hasn't been since the old days.

You'd be surprised about the anti-semitism thing. People on all areas of the political spectrum are weird about Trump's Chosen People. They're what I call "off white" (for the whites ones, I mean), because they're only white when it is convenient for whatever political narrative you're spinning. Anyways, in that exceptional post, among the replies are claims that the show "erases" the fact that Harley is one of Trump's Chosen People. Even though they... don't? At all? She's literally using a Menorah for light this season. And they made it clear last season when we met her family what her ethnicity is. But another poster debunked this and said something like I guess if she's not wearing a Yamulke and slapping pork out of peoples' mouths from episode one it's "erasure" lol.

I could tell that this thing was written by Trump's Chosen People. Smart ones with a goddamn sense of humor and grasp of character.

But yeah, this show has a MUCH better grasp of character than the recent comics. I actually liked in Birds of Prey where Harley was legit going to sell Cain off to Black Mask, but I would have liked a better resolution to that than a simple change of heart. I LOVE Harley's character but I got sick of her comics LONG ago because she was either a perfect zany angel baby or a complete idiot and it was like... fuck that.

I like how they touched on Ivy's shift in her activities with the Catwoman episode, too. TBF, the last time we saw Ivy go Eco-terrorist she got caught and experimented in, so... yeah, surprised they didn't bring up that detail.
You get an Informative for that. It entirely passed me by that Harley was Jewish. Outside of American politics it's not something I usually give much thought to. But I know it's a big deal in burgerland. Also, yeah - Catwoman is a bitch and a half. Her interactions with Ivy were priceless.
 

Overly Serious

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Fuck me, I jinxed it. I said it was good and I fucking jinxed it. The bookends to that episode were straight-up trolling.
 

Overly Serious

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Yes, that's it. Whole episode is book-ended by some pastiche of a DC fan who has a go at the show and ends with him saying he wants to download some Hentai.
Such people undoubtedly exist, but I wonder if the writers will next episode do a similar one with tumblerinas complaining about how Ivy shouldn't be with Kiteman and the writers are engaged in lesbian erasure. I mean, I'd like to see a Snyder cut and I can take some mockery. Lets see how the Tumblerinas handle their turn - come on wrtiers, fair's fair, ne?
 

Uncanny Valley

NO LIVES MATTER
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Its weird. Because of the way animation works, it was something they wrote last year (or earlier), suggesting that they were anticipating some kind of backlash to the series. Except that backlash never materialized, and so the segment ends up being more an indictment of the writers' hateful mentality than a satire of actual comic book fanboys.
you know a show's doing great when they have to make up their own hatedom.
 

Jewelsmakerguy

Domo Arigato
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Its weird. Because of the way animation works, it was something they wrote last year (or earlier), suggesting that they were anticipating some kind of backlash to the series. Except that backlash never materialized, and so the segment ends up being more an indictment of the writers' hateful mentality than a satire of actual comic book fanboys.
You don't lurk on /co/ don't you? I've been seeing hate threads on the show every now and again.
 

UnKillFill

How come he don't want me man?
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Yeah, the intro to this past episode was basically just a mean-spirited attack on a straw man I doubt is even remotely common. One of the nerds said "But you watched all 5 seasons of Gotham..." but weren't the majority of people watching Gotham, socially justarded tumbleristas? Either way, I doubt that the people who liked "all 5 seasons of Gotham" are the same people who would call *this* Harley, or anyone else really, a "Mary Sue" but whatever. It was a lame and tired joke, and it fell flat, but it wasn't particularly offensive or anything.

I was a bit more bugged at how this episode basically decided that this Bruce Wayne is basically a retarded man-child now. That could have even been funny if it was done well and properly set up before this last episode, but they completely changed his character from what we've all seen up until now to make him this way... and I think it's a lot less funny than what he was before.

Before this episode, yeah this Batman was a bit clueless, and campy as fuck... but the joke of Batman in this show, as I understood it to be, was that in addition to being super campy, this Batman also had his seriousness dialed all the way up to 12. (Which shouldn't have worked in this setting, but it totally did. Up until now) That was obviously the reason why they got Diedrich Bader to come back and basically play the same character he did in Batman the Brave and the Bold, only in a much darker and more "mature" setting. But I guess that isn't the case anymore.

In this show, before this episode, Batman was still a *relative* straight man to most of the other characters he interacted with. (*especially* Gordon) and I loved that. Now he basically has the exact same personality as Gordon, but he's also Batman... which is really fucking stupid. Also I guess Alfred is now Bruce's tard wrangler now, literally to the point of being able to "forbid" him from doing things. Neat, I guess? (Not really, even if Alfred was technically correct to start with.)
I didn't even really mind Batman getting *physically* wrecked by Bane, despite having a new suit that would have normally given him an edge over Bane. If this episode made one thing clear, it was that Bruce is in no shape to fight *anyone* right now, and should be taking it easy... But that brings me to another thing that kind of bugged me. The absolute *most* retarded thing that this Batman has done in this show so far was when he was fighting Bane. Batman *knew* he wasn't in top shape, and yet for some reason he still kept *intentionally* trying to antagonize Bane into a roid rage... Even if "the world's greatest detective," didn't want to believe what Bane was saying about being co-equal with TwoFace was true, (And this Batman literally just saw a badly made sign and assumed that Bane was a lackey.) but Batman *still* should have realized that calling the dude he was currently fighting a loser like 5 times over, only made Bane madder/stronger each and every single time he did it, and yet this Batman still kept doing it for some idiotic reason. Until even this previously jokey Bane's anger made him mad enough to *break* Batman.

Unrelated, but I also kind of hate the social media obsessed Batgirl in this show, but I guess it's a "good" thing that Batman finally realized that an (as far as he knows totally untrained) person who happens to have a vagina is fully capable of protecting the city, just because she saved his stupid ass... Even though Batgirl *didn't* actually save his stupid ass, his geriatric butler did... If anything this Batman should have sat down on a chair and told Gordon to trust in Macaroni. I liked Macaroni.

I'll still keep watching Harley Quinn for now. It's been really great up until this past episode. I *really* liked the Mr. Freeze episode last week, because it seemed like it was subverting the usual social justard bullshit. I'm just concerned that this show is about to make a *hard* left turn into the SJW bullshit that they tried to lampshade with the nerds in the opening and closing scenes this week, maybe they were trying to preemptively counter the pivot that they're about to make? Fuck I hope not, but I can't say I'd be surprised.
 

Overly Serious

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Ironic how the show’s taking potshots at these “misogynists” when it’s actually the Tumblrinas who are dunking on it.
Plus it's quite heart-warming the way the people it's attempting to mock are responding with "eh, it's a joke" and re-creating the T-Shirt from the show for charity. Now that I know this was done a year ago in anticipation of attacks which largely haven't been that common it's even funnier. Yes, they have to do the Tumblerinas now. We should try and get them to do it. I'd love to see the freak-outs.
 

Catgirl IRL

True & Honest Fan
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I'm reminded of the British Channel E4; they like to pat themselves on the back for how progressive they are, but are generally harmless. Recently though they did an advertising campaign with the quote "TOO MANY WOMEN ON TELEVISION" against various clips of Stronk Women affirming they weren't go anywhere, etc etc.

The campaign backfired because even the channels' regular fans were questioning like, wtf did this statement come from and what has it got to do us? It was quietly dropped in favour of more Brooklyn 99 re-runs.
 

Imperial Citizen

For the Empire!
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Hmmm. It could be the ex-Mossad guy, I hadn't thought of that. It's just that anti-Semitism isn't usually the form of racism that progressives get upset about. Same caveat also applies which is that I don't think it's anti-Semitic to have an ex-Mossad villain. Frankly, Sy trying to dispose of bodies and talking about how it's just like the old days is something hilariously dark given the number of people Mossad has murdered over the decades. I think you're right - it's got to be Queen of Fables. Having a Black character who is a villain has to be racism, ne?.
I thought Sy was supposed to be a parody of Kissinger/all the covert operations of the CIA in the 70s. I don't remember him being mentioned as a Mossad agent.

And since he is a former CIA operative, there better be a Bane-posting scene between Sy and Bane.
 
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Uncanny Valley

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Plus it's quite heart-warming the way the people it's attempting to mock are responding with "eh, it's a joke" and re-creating the T-Shirt from the show for charity. Now that I know this was done a year ago in anticipation of attacks which largely haven't been that common it's even funnier. Yes, they have to do the Tumblerinas now. We should try and get them to do it. I'd love to see the freak-outs.
naw the tumbrinas are sacred cows to everyone for some odd reason despite being being an overall drain
 

Overly Serious

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I thought Sy was supposed to be a parody of Kissinger/all the covert operations of the CIA in the 70s. I don't remember him being mentioned as a Mossad agent.

And since he is a former CIA operative, there better be a Bane-posting scene between Sy and Bane.
I thought he mentioned working for Mossad / Israeli intelligence in the episode where he's trying to dispose of their bodies. I could be wrong though and would have to go back and check to be 100%.
 
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FernandoPooTragedy

Everyone is exceptional!
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Yeah they reeeally went overboard on Batman this episode. I feel like if Harley were in this episode and had THAT be the framing device, it would have been hilarious since this show is supposed to be partly from her insane perspective. Add in a gag about him fucking a bat and it would have been great. But, uh, they went too far and not far enough at the same time. Just have it be Harley finding out Bats is back, and her dreaming this up after seeing the meeting at the end with him and Gordon. Then just do the rest of it.

I kind of think they should make Batgirl go full tumblr at this point, though. Batgirl antagonizing Harley and Ivy for not dating. They could mine a lot out of that. Barbara Gordon is one of my favorite comic characters ever but I like making her into an Insta-ditz because I've gotten sick of the perfect super genius narrative.
 

The Nothingness

The one with no body!
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I thought he mentioned working for Mossad / Israeli intelligence in the episode where he's trying to dispose of their bodies. I could be wrong though and would have to go back and check to be 100%.
Sy also brought up Jüdischer Blitz in that episode so that may also be where the antisemitism claim may come from.
 
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FernandoPooTragedy

Everyone is exceptional!
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Liked the latest episode a lot. Gave us some insight on why Harley may have fallen for Joker and why Ivy puts up with Harley's selfish ass.
 
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