Having friends along ideological lines -

[King_Scrotus]

Have you guys ever had friends on the other side of the camp, so to speak? It seems like society in general is becoming more radical lately, people are picking sides more than ever, even in small circles of friends.

I don't think keeping a friend who opposes everything you stand for is a bad thing, after all, it's mentally invigorating for anyone to have to think about things, and have their ideals challenged, but sometimes it's harsh to deal with.

I'm someone who's pretty on the right, nationalist, etc, and I have a friend who's a diehard feminist Liberal sort. I don't think a person is defined by their politics, that isn't what makes someone, but sometimes I find it a bit depressing to think about, knowing that we both absolutely despise each other, that in any scenario we're literally satan to the other's beliefs, and it's hard to think of someone like that as friend, you constantly wonder if they don't actually hate you behind your back.

I'm bad at explaining it, anyway, this is just some late night shitpost I thought up because I was half asleep. Anyone else have similar thoughts?

How do you deal with stuff like this?

 

[Club Sandwich]

worthwhile people see you as more than your beliefs - they see you as a whole person composed of many different backgrounds and associations, but having the strength of character to form your own thoughts and make your own decisions.

worthwhile people should be your friends.

 

[AnOminous]

I've had close friends along all ideological lines, from flat-out literal fascists to tankies, and the only ones who have pulled the "disagree with me and you aren't a friend" bullshit are on the left.

I hate to say this. But a right-wing prof who I openly mocked in his own poli sci class and trolled in every paper I submitted to him by citing Foucault just because it pissed him off was also the only guy I trusted to give as a reference when I applied to law school.

And this kind of shit continued.

I had a number of profs whose opinions I generally agreed with and where I had good experiences with them, but people who were right wing or even moderate (and not assholes but just conservative) had horrible experiences with the same profs.

Academic freedom is not all it's cracked up to be, and these days it's a lot worse, because a lot of these fuckwads don't even pretend to care about freedom of speech.

If I were pursuing an academic career and had conservative opinions these days, I'd be fucking terrified. I'd have to lie about my opinions to have any chance of a career.

 

[ZeCommissar]

I tend to keep away from fascists, I have friends that lean very very close to that, but honestly being friends to a fascist/Nazi is completely anathema to my worldview and wouldn't be possible. I will debate with a fascist, I will debate with a Nazi, but I wouldn't call them my "friend". I do have friends that claim to be communist, but I think they are just naive and misguided (although he does look like a young stalin).

I don't get too political with anyone, since I go to extremes on both right and left, and especially not religion since 95% of the area I live in is Christian (or claims to be) and I am not.

 

[Reynard]

I like to have friends I disagree with on some things. That's not all they are, you know? But honestly, it's really hard to befriend people these days because they don't think friends can disagree, as if it would make them a hypocrite and immoral. Typically I've mostly been hanging around like-minded people, but I know this isn't really the best thing. I don't want to be in an ideological bubble, but people are so polarized they'll basically harass people for not agreeing with them on everything. I want civil discussion and an exchange of thoughts, but it seems very few people do these days.

 

[Abortions4All]

I also have experienced the issue where leftists will disown decade plus friendships over ideological difference, while conservatives will stay friendly even though I am a rabid pro choice classic feminist type. They like the debate and discussion that results, while the leftists have been told that discussing an issue with someone is basically like conceding that they have a point before any argument begins.

This means liberals no longer have to develop rhetorical skills, since they can just declare themselves victorious and pure by banning heretics from their spaces. I fear that this fragility will leave no way to successfully oppose fascism.

 

[DoctorJimmyRay]

I also have experienced the issue where leftists will disown decade plus friendships over ideological difference, while conservatives will stay friendly even though I am a rabid pro choice classic feminist type. They like the debate and discussion that results, while the leftists have been told that discussing an issue with someone is basically like conceding that they have a point before any argument begins.

This means liberals no longer have to develop rhetorical skills, since they can just declare themselves victorious victorious and pure by banning heretics from their spaces. I fear that this fragility will leave no way to successfully oppose fascism.

I've experienced similar people like that before on the left. These nutty young liberals tend to gravitate towards a black and white mindset. The world is a huge scary complex place, and a lot of young adults like the comfort of having a good vs evil dichotomy, rather than a more nuanced spectrum of relationships. Liberals tend to fall into this trap rather explicitly. They spend more time on social media, engaging with their political camps over Twitter, tumblr, Facebook, etc, far more loudly and publicly than conservatives. If you believe that men cannot legitimately become women, then you're evil (pardon the generalizations). Or if you get drafted during the Vietnam War and report to basic training, you're automatically a baby killer.

The conservative equivalent of these people seem to also operate on a black and white worldview as well. They do so more implicitly, and seem to direct their fanaticism elsewhere, like higher voter turnout, Trump rallies where they want to crucify journalists, etc. The main difference here is that they tend to see their liberal counterparts as just dumb or misguided, rather than outright evil (again, pardon the generalizations). They would rather argue and debate with you, rather than treat you like a leper.

There's more to it than this, but I'd wager that this is a component of the issue.

To be clear, I'm not talking about the majority of the American voting populace, but rather a somewhat nuttier, and more fanatic minority of left vs right. Give them another 15 years of living and learning and lets see just how fanatic they wind up being.

 

[Kazami Yuuka]

How do you deal with stuff like this?

It's better to find out why someone has certain viewpoints, rather than what exactly they are. Someone having liberal beliefs because they have charity in their mind is reconcilable, while someone having liberal beliefs because they are a violent Communist is not.

 

[Broseph Stalin]

My best friend is a right-leaning "centrist" who doesn't quite agree with some of the more fashy things I say, but he doesn't really shoot me down. His sister on the other hand is a hardcore Bernie Sanders supporter and feminist who leans pretty far to the left, but not too far. Surprisingly enough she's not a complete FemiNazi. She wrote a paper on what real feminism is, and drew comparisons to that Powerpuff Girls episode with the chick who only stole Susan B. Anthony coins. Femme Fatale was a misandrist rather than a feminist, whereas feminism wasn't female domination, but being on equal footing with males. I can get behind her on that, but a lot of her actual political stuff is a lot of socialist and communist rhetoric which I kiiiinda don't mind, since I end up winning most arguments with her.

 

[King_Scrotus]

It's better to find out why someone has certain viewpoints, rather than what exactly they are. Someone having liberal beliefs because they have charity in their mind is reconcilable, while someone having liberal beliefs because they are a violent Communist is not.

I guess this was all moreso me trying to be general about the situation, a lot of people have said a similar thing about just taking someone for themselves rather than their beliefs, and of course I accept that, and it's one of the main reasons I continue keeping up this friendship, that and I don't think it's bad to know people who will challenge you.

It's mainly harsh enough for me to vent about it, because, like I said, I'm one of those harder right types that promote things like nationalism, and I met this person and got to know them since we both originally had similar ideologies. Then, we stopped talking for awhile, and when we recently met back up and got to talking, this person had fully, I guess you could say 'converted' to exactly the opposite, diversity/globalism promoting liberal type who goes at discussing politics exactly as hard as you'd figure someone who does a 180 on their beliefs would, and it's a point of contention, and something that drives a wedge in things due to that.

It's harsh on me losing that thing that used to be what I connected them over, and doubly so since now they are hard on me because I still stick to my own ideology.

 

[melty]

I agree with other people saying leftists are worse about this. My theory about it is since I live in mostly liberal areas, conservatives are used to people being assholes and shitting on their beliefs while liberals are used to echo chambers.
I've come to enjoy talking with people with extreme views more recently, but I used to be one of those "if you believe x we can't be friends" type leftists. I grew out of it.

 

[MMMMMM]

We've all dealt with 'that' family member or coworker who has retarded political beliefs, most well-adjusted people can deal with friends who have different ideas too. Personally I'm too far outside the majority to pick and choose, if I only made friends with people who were in total agreement I'd have no friends at all.
And I think that's part of what's causing this recent trend of ostracising others, these college kids already have large social groups so the loss of a single friend is fairly inconsequential.

And despite being on the far left myself, I'm tempted to agree with what other people are saying in regards to who engages in this behaviour more. I've had lefty people on lefty forums screeching the word "fascist" at me over some fairly trivial horseshit, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
I think there are other reasons for this, but I almost wanna make a thread to get into detail without derailing this one.

As polite as we can try to be though, there have to be limits somewhere. We don't voice these opinions publicly very often, but there are groups of people who would call me a traitor for what I believe, and there are people who think I deserve jail time or worse. Can you be friends with somebody like that?

 

[cuddle striker]

there are people who believe I shouldn't vote, work, exist. I don't like the far right, the religious right, and I have a few extreme sjw friends that likely hate me for not being left in the "correct" way. all these people treat others as non human if they aren't part of the in-group. it's kind of vile.

I'm very socialist but I have a lot of soft libertarian friends. we have good debates. I'm socially libertarian but economically a socialist, I guess? right/left politics seems a lot harder to reconcile.

I think good companions across the aisle are a great idea in theory, but in practice it results in a lot of degrading shit. when one side hates women in general and one side thinks the other is retarded, you've got shit flung in every direction basically. my one lone conservative friend hates trump with a fiery, deep passion I just don't get. it's a lack of fiscal conservatism in trump's "new money" persona that I think is getting to him. he keeps calling him "baby Gatsby".

then again he called Sanders "angry grandpa", and I liked Sanders. so.

 

[TheProdigalStunna]

I'm a right-leaner myself, have been for many years, and most of my friends and family members are either liberal or leftists. I live in a deep-red state, so I can't exactly play the "lone conservative" card, but I went to a fairly progressive church and an alternative high-school which surrounded me with mostly liberal people. Going downtown to some bars feels more like Portland. Most of the time I've hidden my power-level. I once even dated a girl who is a self-described "Marxist," we just never talked about politics.

I've been opening up about my beliefs recently, and most people have been fairly receptive. I get the feeling that liberal self-righteousness is starting to diminish, as a lot of them are starting to reconcile with the fact that not everyone shares their worldview. Of course, a lot of the more hardcore leftists have started to double-down, but for the most part I think most people have started to realize ruining friendships over politics is petty and immature. My roomies were pretty upset with me when I told them I voted for Trump at election night, though.

I will admit that I once had to cut off a friendship (more of an acquaintance than a friend) because of politics, however. It was three-event punch that did it for me that all happened in close proximity to each other. One was defending North Korea hacking Sony over The Interview, which was not a movie I particularly cared for, but he called North Korea a part of an "anti-Imperialist bloc." The second was when he praised the New Yorker who killed the policemen in retaliation for Eric Garner. The third was when he basically defended the Charlie Hebdo massacre because they were "punching down." It would be one thing if we just agreed to never talk politics, but it was literally impossible with him. I never revealed my powerlevel to him, but if I had, he probably would have cut it off first as he had done with many others.

 

[Cato]

I've had close friends along all ideological lines, from flat-out literal fascists to tankies, and the only ones who have pulled the "disagree with me and you aren't a friend" bullshit are on the left.

In my experience, right-wingers tend to "just" consider their political opponents to be naive, misguided and often stupid, while it's people on the left who far, far more often consider people who disagree with their politics to be outright evil and irredeemable.

 

[Oh Long Johnson]

Like most, I've got friends and family all over the spectrum, from state level Republican fund raisers to stupid hippies. And I'm still not entirely convinced one of my brothers isn't Moldbug. I get along with everybody. Always have.

Funny anecdote regarding politics and friends - I was best man at a friend's wedding over the winter. The groom is slightly conservative and his bride is prototypical suburban progressive. Nearly their entire guest list was 30-something, professional liberals. As a joke, I packed a MAGA hat along and when we met up for the rehearsal dinner, I showed the two of them and told them I planned on donning it for the reception speech.

It was as though I had shown them a dead baby. Pure dread and fear. I had no intention of busting out the hat for reals, I just wanted to make a $20 joke, and I explained this to them. It took them a half hour before they calmed down. I got plenty of chuckles from their reactions, but they were totally freaked out.

I met a bunch of the guests at the reception and wound up sitting at three or so tables for periods of time. After the, introductions, it was invariably a non-stop stream of, "Trump, rape, rednecks, fuck, assholes, can't even, fucking Mississippi, Trump, recount, hillbillies, retards, Trump."

I've been a lifelong liberal. Despite my love of calling everyone on the internet a nigger faggot, I vote positively for most progressive causes. But I don't understand most of those people at that wedding. Quite a bit of the rhetoric was just objectively wrong, and Siri could have told them that in three seconds. But they hate the ignorant. So..the IQ bell curve's has states as one axis? The party of the poor is now the party of the upwardly mobile? Are we going to continue to just pretend conservatism hasn't had a better brand for the past 50 years? Bunch of hateful ostriches, those people.

 

[AnOminous]

I've been a lifelong liberal. Despite my love of calling everyone on the internet a nigger faggot, I vote positively for most progressive causes. But I don't understand most of those people at that wedding. Quite a bit of the rhetoric was just objectively wrong, and Siri could have told them that in three seconds. But they hate the ignorant. So..the IQ bell curve's has states as one axis? The party of the poor is now the party of the upwardly mobile? Are we going to continue to just pretend conservatism hasn't had a better brand for the past 50 years? Bunch of hateful ostriches, those people.

Imagine that you're in the majority and your opinions are actually more or less sane, but that the angry minority is so shriekingly insane that if you dare to express your opinion, you will immediately be attacked as if you are a monster, literally Hitler, a Nazi.

This is why I am embarrassed to be a liberal.

And I do not usually use the word "liberal" about myself. I am a socialist, actually.

But I am definitely left, and I am definitely disgusted by my cohort.

Nevertheless, I will have Easter dinner with my family and there will be no politics at all. Because my family is not stupid. They all have guns, but they're all not stupid.

 

[John Titor]

I consider myself Center Left. I don't think I was ever in a situation where my politics clashed with others because I hardly bring up politics except to someone who I think is politically ignorant. He supports gun rights but dislikes Bible thumpers but...let's just say he didn't know the difference between a liberal and a conservative for quite some time. I think I only have a few friends that consider themselves Conservatives. One of them I believe voted for McCain and Romney but absolutely disliked Trump. The rest are pretty liberal, enough to read HuffPo but some of them also think SJWs are being ridiculous.

I have friends that have friends on opposing ideologies but they like to joke about their differences; losing friends over politics just isn't worth it.

I don't think I'm willing to be friends with a dangerhair or an unironic /pol/tard though.

 

[Magnum Dong]

My views are somewhat far left, and I've found that I can reasonably get along with people across most ideological lines, provided that:
1. Their views can't be more "radical" than mine -- from my experience, extremists on the left and right alike are likelier both to start conflict over minor bullshit (e.g. expressions of approval toward groups they dislike, etc) and to be killjoys in general who can hardly participate in conversations without turning them into political discourse.
2. They can't hold people/actions to double-standards and/or have hypocritical views which they judge purely based on ideological reasons (e.g. "I think classism is dangerous and evil but also I HATE those poor uneducated white trash Trump voters", etc).
3. Their whole personality can't revolve around belief in one particular cause. I see this especially with NRA types and people devoted to marijuana legalization, for example. I find they come across as shallow and narrow-minded. I also think they're just hard to talk to because they see themselves as Deep Ideological Thinkers yet tend to dismiss discourse unrelated to their favorite issue.
4. They should try to show an understanding of ideological differences and the people who have them. Not a requirement, but I definitely respect someone more if they're able to admit "I can see, given someone's circumstances, why they might believe in this policy" or "This politician I disagree with is actually very eloquent and intelligent".

 

[vertexwindi]

You know, it's funny, all of my family and friends swing more to the right side of the pendulum. My extended family are all on the older side with kids and spouses (sometimes) so it's logical for them to be so, but I did not intentionally seek out right-wing people to befriend, it just happened that way.

At least I can joke about Hitler and trannies all I want I suppose.