Healthcare is a right? -

Vorhtbame

The prettiest zombie-slayer
True & Honest Fan
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I personally am in favor of giving the government additional excuses to invade my privacy, interfere with my ability to enter into contracts, nullify my personal decisions, and prevent me from doing myself whatever they've decided is "harm" today (but reserve the right to decide isn't harmful tomorrow).

I also don't know why every single time the government gets the power to take away my liberties, my property, and sometimes my life, it does so. Must be a coincidence, like how socialist officials and dictators always end up incredibly wealthy while the rest of their people eat shoe soles for supper. Surely all that has been a fluke, and it won't happen this time.

Besides, I am scared of things I saw on TV and know only that we must act NOW NOW NOW NOW.
 
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DumbDude42

kiwifarms.net
That's what health insurance already is. It's healthy people paying for other fuckers' shit.
insurance is voluntary though, and only benefits those who are actually paying members themselves. it's a form of risk management through collective effort.
european style 'health care' on the other hand is mandatory, you are forced to be part of it whether you want to or not, and it also benefit non-paying leeches at the expense of all those who pay for it, which is pretty much the entire taxpaying population. this is no longer simple insurance, this is socialist redistribution of wealth, which is why i hate it so much.
 

Dr. Geronimo

Echo chambers are bad for your health.
kiwifarms.net
insurance is voluntary though, and only benefits those who are actually paying members themselves. it's a form of risk management through collective effort.
european style 'health care' on the other hand is mandatory, you are forced to be part of it whether you want to or not, and it also benefit non-paying leeches at the expense of all those who pay for it, which is pretty much the entire taxpaying population. this is no longer simple insurance, this is socialist redistribution of wealth, which is why i hate it so much.
Which I get and agree with, but I'm not saying to straight up copy their system, just for an alternative to our current trainwreck.

I was just pointing out that insurance is basically the same concept.
 
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OB 946

Guest
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If you take the amount of cash it would from the rich and middle classes to provide universal/unilateral healthcare for this country it'd bankrupt us and send us into a Venezuelan style shit-vortex of inescapable tumult. I'd rather not do that for a shitload of ungrateful assholes I'll never meet, thanks.

You're wrong as shit. The US spends the most on healthcare in the world as % of GDP by an absurdly large margin. Literally any system would be cheaper.

blog_healthcare_percent_gdp_1995_2014.gif
 

JosephStalin

Vozhd
True & Honest Fan
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I dont know why people want our govt to provide healthcare, they cant do a single thing right. What makes people think that government provided health care will work out any better than social security?

How right you are, when we are talking Veterans' Administration health care. A little powerlevel - am retired military, disabled veteran. Seems like every day we hear stories of fuckups in VA hospitals, often costing the lives of vets who trusted the VA to do their job and provide health care. For Fiscal Year 2019, the VA got almost $60 billion for medical care, and Congress and the President look to provide over $75 billion for VA medical care in Fiscal Year 2020, starting 1 October.

About a year ago the VA and the military spent about $100 million building a two-large-building combined VA/military medical clinic. See it every day when I go walking. But, guess what - there is NO pharmacy! What the fuck! Vets who get prescriptions are expected to take them downtown to have them filled. Refills would come by mail order. But what if you are an older vet who has no way to get to the drug store? Lots of vets in that situation. The troops take their prescriptions to the military pharmacy at the Presidio of Monterey.

Been retired from the military over 20 years. Have been to a VA health care facility once, to get a VA ID card. Get all healthcare downtown through the military's TRICARE program. Program is run by contractors. You pay your premium, $25/month for single people, $50/month for families. Primary care comes from your primary care manager. Primary care manager arranges for specialty care if needed. This system works very well, and if needed can provide authorizations in a matter of a couple of hours, but normally it takes 24 hours for routine care. Copayments are fairly low. $20 to see primary care manager, $30 for specialist. A number of things have zero copayment, such as lab tests, imagery of any kind, vaccinations,well-woman care, and other preventive medical things. Inpatient care is a flat $154 copay, no matter how long the stay - weeks, months. Prescriptions are covered. No copay if you get prescription filled on base, varying copays if downtown. You need to get refills and maintenance medicines through mail-order. Pay a copay but free shipping. Limited vision coverage - one exam every two years. Can get free glasses through the Navy. Best to get a separate vision plan. TRICARE also has a separate dental plan, but it is expensive and not good. We bought a separate dental plan.

The premiums don't begin to cover the cost of care, even at the prices TRICARE gets, and they seem to get very good prices. The rest of the cost of care comes from the military budget.

Believe a system similar in concept to TRICARE might work for everyone. Low premiums, low copays. If unemployed/on welfare/on SSI no premiums/copays. We know up front that the premiums will not cover the total cost of health care, even at negotiated rates. So we would take all the money used for Medicare, Medicaid, the VA Health System, the Indian Health System and all Federal health systems but the military health system (military operational requirements) and use it to pay for care. Could well be a place for private health insurance.

I'd like nothing better than to see the entire VA health system shitcanned. Despite what the VA says, there is no illness or injury a veteran can sustain that cannot be successfully treated within the civilian health care system. And patients are treated much better downtown, in contrast to some of the horror stories about vets in VA hospitals.
 

Unog

My political affiliation is "rétard"
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You're wrong as shit. The US spends the most on healthcare in the world as % of GDP by an absurdly large margin. Literally any system would be cheaper.

I'd love for you to explain, exactly, how those two statements tie together, because from where I'm sitting they don't.

You seem to be under the assumption, strangely, that there's no possible way that we could spend more and get shittier healthcare. Which is laughable at best.
 
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OB 946

Guest
kiwifarms.net
I'd love for you to explain, exactly, how those two statements tie together, because from where I'm sitting they don't.

You seem to be under the assumption, strangely, that there's no possible way that we could spend more and get shittier healthcare. Which is laughable at best.
Listen this is how this is gonna go, I'm going to quote a lot of statistics and studies and you are going to go "but yeah government is inefficient lol" and it's going to be that back and forth and there's literally nothing that I can do to change your mind. So I'm just going to call it here.

The medical industry is LITERALLY ran by kleptocrats in the US. It is a semi-free market where only like 3 companies are allowed to compete and they have secret non compete agreements and spend billions on lobbying and slicking congressional palms, which is why a prescription that costs $4 in Canada costs $370 here. It's retarded and is a direct result of a corrupted "free market."
 
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OB 946

Guest
kiwifarms.net
The free market was corrupted by the influx of federal money that overshadowed the private citizen. How does completely removing the citizen fix the system?
The free market was corrupted by monopolies and kleptocrats. It has literally nothing to do with federal money. Federal money didn't give us Martin Shkreli.

Again, the problems with the US system are worse than in any other first world country. US healthcare is a joke, so my idea is to adopt a middle road system that is proven to work like Germany's. this isn't hypothetical debate hour, this is our system is fucked and theirs is significantly less fucked. If you have a better plan that doesn't involve letting the botton 50% of Americans die on the street I'll hear you out.
 

Unog

My political affiliation is "rétard"
kiwifarms.net
Listen this is how this is gonna go, I'm going to quote a lot of statistics and studies and you are going to go "but yeah government is inefficient lol" and it's going to be that back and forth and there's literally nothing that I can do to change your mind. So I'm just going to call it here.

The medical industry is LITERALLY ran by kleptocrats in the US. It is a semi-free market where only like 3 companies are allowed to compete and they have secret non compete agreements and spend billions on lobbying and slicking congressional palms, which is why a prescription that costs $4 in Canada costs $370 here. It's exceptional and is a direct result of a corrupted "free market."
The free market was corrupted by monopolies and kleptocrats. It has literally nothing to do with federal money. Federal money didn't give us Martin Shkreli.

Again, the problems with the US system are worse than in any other first world country. US healthcare is a joke, so my idea is to adopt a middle road system that is proven to work like Germany's. this isn't hypothetical debate hour, this is our system is fucked and theirs is significantly less fucked. If you have a better plan that doesn't involve letting the botton 50% of Americans die on the street I'll hear you out.

Still not hearing how your idea would be cheaper. It's always "it'll be better" right up until people start crunching numbers, and there's a lot more people around now than there were in Reagan's time to have to pay for when it comes to this topic.

Nevermind the fact that you apparently think that there's no correlation between medicine/medical supplies being cheaper abroad and them being expensive here, which is a laugh and a half in and of itself.
 

SmileyTimeDayCare

This is pleasure!
kiwifarms.net
Still not hearing how your idea would be cheaper. It's always "it'll be better" right up until people start crunching numbers, and there's a lot more people around now than there were in Reagan's time to have to pay for when it comes to this topic.

Nevermind the fact that you apparently think that there's no correlation between medicine/medical supplies being cheaper abroad and them being expensive here, which is a laugh and a half in and of itself.

But he has STATISTICS. Americans spend more based on GDP man! Those klepocrats got us!

Now take the dick bigot.
 
I always had good insurance because my parents worked hard. Now I work hard and have insurance. Never understood why so many people need handouts just to have healthcare. Just get a better job. Shit heads at Walmart have healthcare but for some reason it's the governments job to do it for you now. Regan tried to get us off the governments tit, we've reverted to being helpless in recent years.
 
O

OB 946

Guest
kiwifarms.net
Still not hearing how your idea would be cheaper. It's always "it'll be better" right up until people start crunching numbers, and there's a lot more people around now than there were in Reagan's time to have to pay for when it comes to this topic.

Nevermind the fact that you apparently think that there's no correlation between medicine/medical supplies being cheaper abroad and them being expensive here, which is a laugh and a half in and of itself.
These aren't arguments
 

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