Historical City Builders -

cuÞbert

kiwifarms.net
With the return of the Steam Summer Sale, I decided to buy several historical city builders and I'm wondering if anyone else is a fan of the genre.

I decided to start out with Dawn of Man, which is currently in early access. Overall I'm pretty impressed as I am a fan of bronze age/iron age Europe . You start out as a small group of northern/central European hunter gatherers in the old Stone age barely holding on against the winter weather, cave lions, and starvation. Things really start to ramp up once you discover farming and animal husbandry in the Neolithic, at which point your population blooms and no longer have to focus on hunting (and certain animals like mammoths and cave hyenas go extinct). However, it brings its own challenges, which include crop blights, animal diseases, and periodic raids from other tribes.

The main street of my city at approximately a population over 120 during the Iron Age. When you start out you have to catch wild animals in the Neolithic in order to raise livestock (in this pictures case: I had to catch aurochs to start having cattle and mouflons for the sheep) but later on you can buy them at exorbitant prices from periodic traders or just wait for them to breed.
dommainstreet.jpg
My farms outside the city walls. Mostly einkorn, rye, and legumes with a smattering of fruit trees.
domfarms.jpg

My metalworking area consisting of a charcoal pit, bloomeries, and blacksmiths. Technology evolves from wooden spears, to bone, to flint, to copper, to bronze, to iron; ending with steel. In the experimental update recently released, you can also craft leather and chainmail in the bronze and iron age respectively
domironworks.jpg

You also have to take care of the dead, as people get really depressed after a fellow tribesman dies. You start out with simple burial mounds and by the end build massive Skyrim-style necropolis . People come to pray from time to time to stop being depressed. As an alternative, you can brew beer to improve morale.
domtombs.jpg

An enemy tribe coming to steal and burn my town
domenemy.jpg
A battle outside my walls (generally easy to fight off but the war parties get bigger and bigger in time)
dombattle.jpg
 
Yeah this is a fun genre. My favorite formula of this style of game are the old Sierra/Impressions city builders.

Caesar III and Pharaoh, each with their expansions are phenomenal games. The graphics are very pretty and everything under the hood is solid as a rock. Most newer games of that type end up being worse. I liked Pharaoh with the Cleopatra expansion pack, that game is really fun. You can get it inexpensively anymore.

Another acceptable game is CivCity: Rome. It could be better, but it's certainly better than more modern entries like Banished.
 
Only issue is how messed up the Impressions games are on modern resolutions.
Unsure what resolution you are using but here's a patch for Cleopatra: https://www.wsgf.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=132064#p132064

Widescreen Gaming Forum should have patches for the other games as well.

On the contrary side I thought Banished was pretty shallow once you understood all the mechanics. Maybe mods fix it.
I agree. Banished is fine but it doesn't bring anything new to the table that significantly older games didn't already accomplish. What it does add is mod support, but even that is constrained by the game's limited scope.
 

Some Manajerk

kiwifarms.net
yeah, banished is fun for a little while, but once you get established theres really nothing else you can do, and once your community is self sustaining the game really doesn't have anything going for it.
 
CivCity: Rome really juiced up the formula by pulling in a tech tree from Civilization. It still didn't entirely save the game from being a bit slow in the end-game, but it was a very good inclusion and allowed you to specialize.
 

Dutch Courage

Curious Onlooker
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Urban Empire is an interesting game due to the politics of the city council being behind the engine of the game. It shares with city builders city zoning and district zoning and city resource management, but you need to be clever to get the votes to do your agenda. You really start to hate certain factions after awhile, which is the kind of visceral reaction I like.
 

Just Some Other Guy

kiwifarms.net
Children of the Nile is very very okay.
Something mesmerizing about building my 1st pyramid in Pharaoh. Setting up the supply chain, watching people bring the materials, watching it be laid out step by step... Really made you feel like it was all coming together for a single great purpose.

They don't make em' like that any more lol.
 
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Something mesmerizing about building my 1st pyramid in Pharaoh. Setting up the supply chain, watching people being the materials, watching it be laid out step by step... Really made you feel like it was all coming together for a single great purpose.

They don't make em' like that any more lol.
Definitely. It's weird because a lot of the newer games mentioned in this thread and beyond are agent-based simulations. And yet despite improving AI by leaps and bounds, most modern and even slightly older agent-based simulations are no better than the classics. Cities: Skylines comes to mind, where it feels like they took the old model and simply made it much larger and in effect created a giant mess of a game. Even greats like Sim City 4 required an expansion pack and then some pretty intensive mods (the Network Addon Mod) to get the simulation to behave in a reasonably functional manner once your cities started become larger.

It may not be the primary reason why this genre struggles anymore, in fact I think it would be foolish to suggest that. But the lack of advancement in terms of the quality of the simulation is definitely a good secondary reason why the genre isn't what it used to be. It simply hasn't grown with the times and the technology.
 

Troonos

Regrettable Cake Farts
kiwifarms.net
OP, thanks for the recommendation. It looks fun. Added it to my wish list.

Is there any kind of conflict with other civilizations or is it just man vs. nature?
 

cuÞbert

kiwifarms.net
OP, thanks for the recommendation. It looks fun. Added it to my wish list.

Is there any kind of conflict with other civilizations or is it just man vs. nature?
At the start its exclusively predatory animals like cave bears and wolves that you have to fight or herbivore megafauna that will defend themselves like mammoths or bison. Once you get to the Neolithic era you start having hostile raiders spawn every few years, but its only 3-5 of them with bone spears; not very threatening. Once you get into the copper or bronze age, you start getting larger warbands attacking you with increasingly better weapons and armor (which you can pilfer off their corpses and use for your own warriors). There's no enemy buildings to attack (at least not yet), so its purely defensive like Caesar III.
 

Just Some Other Guy

kiwifarms.net
Definitely. It's weird because a lot of the newer games mentioned in this thread and beyond are agent-based simulations. And yet despite improving AI by leaps and bounds, most modern and even slightly older agent-based simulations are no better than the classics. Cities: Skylines comes to mind, where it feels like they took the old model and simply made it much larger and in effect created a giant mess of a game. Even greats like Sim City 4 required an expansion pack and then some pretty intensive mods (the Network Addon Mod) to get the simulation to behave in a reasonably functional manner once your cities started become larger.

It may not be the primary reason why this genre struggles anymore, in fact I think it would be foolish to suggest that. But the lack of advancement in terms of the quality of the simulation is definitely a good secondary reason why the genre isn't what it used to be. It simply hasn't grown with the times and the technology.
I played a my share of Skylines...and I always lose interest quickly.
 

cuÞbert

kiwifarms.net
Lately been addicted to Caesar III. Desert maps are the worst.

Stumbled upon this game here: Aztec Empire. Its essentially a Impressions-style historical city builder game set in the Aztec Empire. I always thought Mesoamerica was an excellent setting for these kinds of games (city states, complex stratified societies), but I would have preferred Mayan instead of Aztec.
The artstyle is a bit simplistic for my taste, but it seems to have all the goodness of Caesar III.
 

Rebel Wilson

kiwifarms.net
Builders are what I grew up on. I have a PCem partition that runs a pentium 300 with windows 98 and another that runs 3.11 on a 100/66 to play classic games on a flash drive. It's just so much easier than trying to fuck with compatability problems with modern 64 systems.

Dawn of man is good but it's really easy to exploit right now. Just mass producing bows and selling them to the traders and you dont need to worry about any learning point wonkiness.

Impressions games are classic but they are really showing their age. civ2/3 I'll boot up on a lunch break from my flash drive pretty often but it's been a while since I've touched pharaoh even though it's the best one.

There is a really good looking builder coming up called nebuchadnezzar that was delayed by covid that might be worth checking out
 
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