Horror Noire - "Woke" black horror documentary

[BrunoMattei]

This pissed me the fuck off and despite liking Get Out Jordan Peele as a director/spokesman is wearing out his welcome for me. Horror fan here and let me dispute most of these "facts":

1: horror, as a genre, wasn't any more discriminatory than any other genre at the time of early Hollywood. Bitching about black maids and servants makes no sense at all because any period film that has rich people has black servants because most of them were black. That's how the economy works. There's a fucking black maid in Gone with the Wind, which isn't a horror film, where the actress won the Oscar.

2: complaining about Blacks portraying slaves and shit in a movie with slaves (like White Zombie) is fucking autistic.

3: blacks were the first to die in mostly the slasher movies because they were given bit parts and the casting was trying to be believable. Just like how most whites have white friends and all that. I presume that the documentary will ignore that black characters have survived till the end or near the end in many horror films including the movie they gush over the most Night of the Living Dead. Others, off the top of my head, would be Return of the Living Dead, Friday the 13th part 3, Nightmare on Elm Street 3, Night of the Demons is another one, fucking Alien in 79, Evil Speak (Black best friend to Clint Howard's character survives the movie), Sleepaway Camp parts 2 and 3 where the black characters died mid-way or near the end of the movie, a black character survives The Final Terror, etc. All of these movies are way before any kind of politically correct bullshit.

4: 0:50 in the trailer made me a double take "We shifted from being the fear into being the heroes." Nigger, since fucking when? They show a clip from White Zombie but the zombies aren't the villain in the movie. It's a white guy played by the great Bela Lugosi who is the real villain and has the zombies under his power. Ironically, the only movies I can think of where the villain is black are movies that blacks love like Candyman and Blacula. Tales from the Fucking Hood, which is a great anthology horror film, has Satan played by a black guy and the movie was written and directed by a black guy. I'll make you guys a bet that they'll show clips from Birth of a Nation to illustrate this point even though it isn't a goddamn horror film.

Edit: I could imagine that they'll bitch about a lack of black heroes in horror movies and most of the time in a horror film there's no real "hero" per se. They're more like survivors than anything else. The number of horror "heroes" could be counted on one hand and would include: Ash (Evil Dead), Reggie Bannister (Phantasm), Ripley (Alien), Peter (Dawn of the Dead), maybe Blade if that counts? That seems like pretty decent representation.

 

[Nekromantik]

I would argue that horror is one of the few genres where everyone is more equal. You never think when watching a horror movie, "Man, that actor/actress sure is black and I'm glad they're here for diversity." No you're thinking, "That fucker just had sex and smoked weed at this haunted camp, they're dead." Race is never a deciding factor for this. In a horror movie you have an equal chance of getting killed, rich, poor, black, white, or yellow, it doesn't matter.

And do they bring up Julius from Jason takes Manhattan? That guy was brave enough to challenge Jason to a boxing match. He boxed him till his knuckles bleed. That's a hero to me, even if he got his head knocked off.

 

[BrunoMattei]

I would argue that horror is one of the few genres where everyone is more equal. You never think when watching a horror movie, "Man, that actor/actress sure is black and I'm glad they're here for diversity." No you're thinking, "That fucker just had sex and smoked weed at this haunted camp, they're dead." Race is never a deciding factor for this. In a horror movie you have an equal chance of getting killed, rich, poor, black, white, or yellow, it doesn't matter.

And do they bring up Julius from Jason takes Manhattan? That guy was brave enough to challenge Jason to a boxing match. He boxed him till his knuckles bleed. That's a hero to me, even if he got his head knocked off.

Exactly. To bring up the sexism argument that feminists and other assholes keep parroting, if you look at the horror genre there's a lot of strong women that survive or outsmart the killer. Especially in the Nightmare on Elm Street franchise. Nightmare on Elm Street part 2 has a (closeted) gay guy survive. You can't get much more fair than that.

Shit, by the same argument you could say the whole Slasher genre is racist against whites because mostly white people die in horrible ways and nowadays the blacks survive out of political correctness.

 

[Otis Boi]

: I could imagine that they'll bitch about a lack of black heroes in horror movies and most of the time in a horror film there's no real "hero" per se. They're more like survivors than anything else. The number of horror "heroes" could be counted on one hand and would include: Ash (Evil Dead), Reggie Bannister (Phantasm), Ripley (Alien), Peter (Dawn of the Dead), maybe Blade if that counts? That seems like pretty decent representation.

Honestly i would say that women tend to be over represented when it comes horror movie survivors.

I don't see a point to something like this Horror/Sci-fi both share the fact they are have one of the highest levels of representation then another genre.As long as the movie isn't some sort of period piece or going for historical accuracy most of the time
there is at least one black (or other Minority) lead. I think it will just be cherrypicking at best there are a fuck ton of horror movies most so its easy to pick and choose what you want.

 

[Nekromantik]

Exactly. To bring up the sexism argument that feminists and other assholes keep parroting, if you look at the horror genre there's a lot of strong women that survive or outsmart the killer. Especially in the Nightmare on Elm Street franchise. Nightmare on Elm Street part 2 has a (closeted) gay guy survive. You can't get much more fair than that.

The first two Hellraisers as well. I can't remember if I read it some where or if it was on the DVD commentary, but Julia being such a brutal killer was a bit of a controversy, because women just shouldn't be like that. I'm sure some feminists are upset about her being a killer, I say it's equal opportunity.

Horror movies reflect a generations fears, but also a fantasy of how to over come them. Rape revenge movies are a good example of this. You can't force it to happen though. That's why woke horror and internet horror about fucking Facebook fail.

 

[Ted_Breakfast]

Representation is such a stupid concept it doesn't deserve a genuine response. Make me feel scared and I'll watch your shit. Get Out was a fine film, but I doubt Peele could ever move beyond that premise if he wants to make a tense movie. It seems like race is all he thinks about.

And frankly, the maid in GWTW was an overacting hack. Hollywood had been taking BBC for 70 years now. Amistad was nominated after all, and that movie's an embarrassment.

 

[knightlautrec]

I don't see how horror especially slashers are any sort of racist. I mean, the whole appeal of Friday the 13th is to root for Jason to kill a bunch of useless middle class white kids. Hell, most victims in slasher are useless middle class white kids and you cheer when they get killed in cool ways. Shouldn't they be all for that?

I feel like a slasher movie where every victim was black teenagers would raise so many eyebrows and there would be reeeeing to the high heavens. But white teens from the 80s? Meh. Put 'em into a human sized blender by the cart full clearly.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Honestly i would say that women tend to be over represented when it comes horror movie survivors.

I don't see a point to something like this Horror/Sci-fi both share the fact they are have one of the highest levels of representation then another genre.As long as the movie isn't some sort of period piece or going for historical accuracy most of the time
there is at least one black (or other Minority) lead. I think it will just be cherrypicking at best there are a fuck ton of horror movies most so its easy to pick and choose what you want.

I somewhat agree. You do have male survivors like Ash or Reggie Bannister and Mike from Phantasm. There was a final boy in The Burning and a gay guy in Nightmare on Elm Street part 2. Then there's Wes Craven's People Under the Stairs where the lead is a black kid who survives and outsmarts the villains.

I feel like a slasher movie where every victim was black teenagers would raise so many eyebrows and there would be reeeeing to the high heavens. But white teens from the 80s? Meh. Put 'em into a human sized blender by the cart full clearly.

It's a Catch 22 situation. If you inter-mix the casting you piss off whatever race is being represented because they don't like the tokens either. If you cast mostly black or hispanic or whatever and the villain is white you're also perceived as racist. If you make everyone black now it's a black film. Make the villain black and the victims white and you still invite some controversy. If you make the villain a non-human like an alien or a demon the usual circles will still imagine some kind of racism happening. You just can't fucking win.

 

[Nekromantik]

Then there's Wes Craven's People Under the Stairs where the lead is a black kid who survives and outsmarts the villains.

I'm kicking myself for forgetting People Under the Stairs.

From what I've seen Tales from The Hood is far better than anything the woke crowd could come up with for a horror movie.

 

[BrunoMattei]

I'm kicking myself for forgetting People Under the Stairs.

From what I've seen Tales from The Hood is far better than anything the woke crowd could come up with for a horror movie.

I heard the straight to video sequel was a massive piece of shit.

 

[Nekromantik]

I heard the straight to video sequel was a massive piece of shit.

I didn't even know that was made. I'm not surprised any sequel to a long dead franchise is going to suck, Creepshow 3.

 

[BrunoMattei]

I didn't even know that was made. I'm not surprised any sequel to a long dead franchise is going to suck, Creepshow 3.

A Creepshow TV show is in the works. Produced by Greg Nicotero. It would be impressive if it was worse than Creepshow 3.

 

[Ted_Breakfast]

A Creepshow TV show is in the works. Produced by Greg Nicotero. It would be impressive if it was worse than Creepshow 3.

I wish people would just let Creepshow exist and not try to inflate it. It's like making a Life if Brian 2, just let people enjoy the genius, you lampreys.

 

[BrunoMattei]

I made the mistake of paying for a year's worth of Shudder. I signed up for the free two week trial to catch the Joe Bob Briggs marathon (where the fuck is the Valentine's Day marathon BTW?) and forgot to cancel. So they charged me $50 or so for a year. On the plus side, the selection is really good. On the down side I've seen the majority of films they have on there.

So I'll do an autistic live-blog thing while watching this. It opens with the bullshit "Horror hasn't always loved us." That was in the trailer and I said my piece in the OP post.

Editing with timestamps in coming.

01:30 The whole thing seems to be a glorified reaction video with black actors and directors reacting to any black actors in horror or black centric horror films. It doesn't matter if the role had any real cultural significance or not. It's still neat seeing the black chick from Elm Street 4 and the guy who played Kincaid in Elm Street 3 and 4. Keith David and Tony Todd are always fun to see.

As an aside; a friend of mine met Tony Todd at a con and complimented his performance in some forgotten Z grade movie and Tony Todd called him a motherfucker to his face.

02:00 a clip from Get Out. There's going to be a ton of wanking to Get Out (and probably some promo for Us) in this bitch.

3 minutes in and I'm already pissed off. I can tell this bitch right here:

Is going to be the weak link of the documentary. Because she keeps bringing up"woke-ness" and other nonsense. 3 minutes in and she's talking about how surprised she was to see a black protagonist in a horror film even though (like I mentioned) there's been plenty of movies where that's been a thing and quite a few movies where the black character survived. I forgot to mention Reggie in Friday the 13th Part 5: a New Beginning. Any time this bitch appears on screen is going to guarantee some cringe.

03:49 "Black history is black horror." Is her soundbite and they play a montage of protests and bullshit.

I'll make you guys a bet that they'll show clips from Birth of a Nation to illustrate this point even though it isn't a goddamn horror film.

I FUCKING CALLED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We are 4 minutes in and they reference Birth of a Nation. I fucking knew these hacks would do it! FUCK!

10 minutes in they bring up marginalized roles for blacks in horror movies. Ignoring that in film in general they had small roles. So it's whatever. They try to make a point on how black's were used as comic relief (and I believe they use a clip from Abbot and Costello meet Frankenstein) but I would argue this: would you rather they not have any role in the movie?

12 minutes in and this other bitch, another "woke" professor compares the fucking Creature from the fucking Black Lagoon to black minstrel shows.


Clearly there's a fucking resemblance...

SMDH.

This other other bitch goes on about the Atom Age of horror and how the monster represented repressed people or blacks or whatever. Then goes on to say how blacks weren't in movies but now they're in movies but represented by a monster... WTF>?????????? I want to punch this movie. I don't know if I'll make it. @Splendid Meat Sticks Maybe this should be movie night material? There's plenty of cringe and SJW-ness to be had.

12: 24 of course the asshole fucking say's that King Kong represented blacks in a negative light. I want to A-Log but I have to stop. I'm getting a headache and I'm barely 13 minutes in.

 

[friedshrimp]

Well, I mean, if you want to see King Kong as an allegory...Even Tarantino had this idea that Kong was a metaphor for African slavery in the USA.

 

[BrunoMattei]

Well, I mean, if you want to see King Kong as an allegory...Even Tarantino had this idea that Kong was a metaphor for African slavery in the USA.

The King Kong allegory thing came right after suggesting that the Creature from the Black Lagoon was modeled after the stereotypes of blacks.

Tarantino also said this about Top Gun:

So you have to take what he say's with a grain of salt. Tarantino enjoys saying crazy shit and stirring the pot. Especially because of all the cocaine.

 

[frozenrunner]

This documentary sounds unwatchable.

3: blacks were the first to die in mostly the slasher movies because they were given bit parts and the casting was trying to be believable.

I have another theory about why this has become an enduring movie trope: primarily white audiences are more likely to feel bad about a black character dying than a white character. (Remember, there are an enormous number of Americans who reflexively think of anything culturally black as more "authentic." That speaks of an agreeable, overcompensating mindset that considers blacks as part of a permanent in-group.) I think it's a cheap way to draw audience sympathy without labor-intensive building of character... which you often don't have time to do with big casts of doomed characters in horror films.

In fact, this reminds me of another horror trope that conventional wisdom is probably wrong about: the "characters who fuck will die" trope. Is it an American puritanical thing? Does it have to do with patriarchal definitions of what a "good" woman is? Or is it something more simple, like "the audience is really pulling for the killer, so let's give him characters to kill who the audience wants to die." Like young, stupid, nubile, irresponsible people who are getting to screw each other while the audience is stuck watching.

Exactly. To bring up the sexism argument that feminists and other assholes keep parroting, if you look at the horror genre there's a lot of strong women that survive or outsmart the killer. Especially in the Nightmare on Elm Street franchise. Nightmare on Elm Street part 2 has a (closeted) gay guy survive. You can't get much more fair than that.

Though there's a practical reason the "final girl" is a horror trope too, and fairness has nothing to do with it. How do you ratchet up the tension most effectively in your horror movie? Have the killer tracking a vulnerable character. And female characters are always going to be more vulnerable.

Ironically, what used to be surprising and daring (having a vulnerable woman survive against a deadly killer) is now a movie cliche.

 

[LN 910]

Because we all know that white people never had any hardships, just look at the Medieval Times where there was no diseases and everyone got on well.