How big is the Order of Nine Angles really? - Does this tinfoil make me look fat?

Just Here for A and H

Toxically Hypermasculine Necropolitician
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I have a personal conspiracy theory that all the atheistic Satanists that secularists point to in order to say 'see? Satanism's just libertarianism the religion' are just PR strategy by darker groups, of which O9A is one. I don't think the 'fuck you Dad' eyeliner Satanists are aware that's what they are, but I think that's what they are.
 

Senior Lexmechanic

See you in a couple months, maybe.
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I have a personal conspiracy theory that all the atheistic Satanists that secularists point to in order to say 'see? Satanism's just libertarianism the religion' are just PR strategy by darker groups, of which O9A is one. I don't think the 'fuck you Dad' eyeliner Satanists are aware that's what they are, but I think that's what they are.
And where did these totally-for-real theistic Satanists first come from?
 
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Senior Lexmechanic

See you in a couple months, maybe.
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I'd assume some connection to the Lesser Keys of Solomon and the works of Aleister Crowley?
Occultism isn't Satanism: the Lesser Key of Solomon is about commanding and binding demons through magic, generally invoking angels and God's holy name, or telephoning angels for secret knowledge. Certainly heretical bodgery, but not Satan-worship: demons are meant to be commanded and abjured and there's warnings layed out like mile markers in the book about how demons are wicked and will try to trick you into damnation (along with how to avoid it) and God is at the top of the totem pole, deserving of worship.
Crowley, meanwhile, mucks about a whole lot with Egyptian mythology, and while he does talk about Baphomet, he insists that it has nothing to do with Christianity (indeed, Thelema views the entirety of the Christian metaphysics as nonsense meant to prevent people from attaining enlightenment). Furthermore, while Thelema is certainly Dionysian, it isn't the carnal and exogenic practice that is associated with the Satanic conspiracy theories or cursory examinations of the sect's attitude: Crowley cites Muhammad, Lao Zi, and Buddha as men of high spiritual attainment, and his command "do as thou will shall be the whole of the law" explicitly does not mean a hedonistic lifestyle: Crowley talks a lot about the "true will", which could be better understood as something like a calling or personal mission, and states that this is the will that should be done, not the carnal desires of the ego. Fairly typical of the Spiritualist movements that arose during this time, and quite similar to hippy "New Age" beliefs, as well. Hell, look back before Crowley and you'll see half of his ideological blood flows down from the line of Millennial Christian cults that arose in the mid-19th century.
The sexual practices discussed by Crowley are far closer to the Hindu Kama Sutra (complex, ecstatic sexual practice as a form of ascetic activity, with animal gratification being the furthest thing from your mind when engaging in it) than a Caligulan orgy.

This, along with the fact that most Satanic conspiracy theories allege that these Satanists have held high station and power in society since, at least, the early Middle Ages (predating both by nigh on a millennium) means my question is still unanswered.
 

Ebonic Tutor

"Beware the shitposting of demons."
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Whole lotta stuff about the occult.
We both know this stuff is a lot more complicated than it just being Satanism, and I appreciate the crash course. I was more into demonology myself, just digging around for descriptions and stories associated with them.

Thing is to average normie / Christian this stuff is Satanism. Even if it isn't a Demonolatry/Satanic religion I could see a lot of these things being construed as such by the unfamiliar.
 
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Senior Lexmechanic

See you in a couple months, maybe.
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We both know this stuff is a lot more complicated than it just being Satanism, and I appreciate the crash course. I was more into demonology myself, just digging around for descriptions and stories associated with them.

Thing is to average normie / Christian this stuff is Satanism. Even if it isn't a Demonolatry/Satanic religion I could see a lot of these things being construed as such by the unfamiliar.
Yes, and that is one thing, but Satanic conspiracy theories, especially those associated with SRA/Pizzagate-type shit, make very specific allegations that the elites worship Satan (or Moloch) and engage in secret rituals involving forced drugging, orgies, pedophilic abuse, animal sacrifice, human sacrifice (sometimes claiming mass human sacrifice), overtly and specifically Satanic images, cannibalism, and in the most wild cases demonic possession and the physical manifestations of demons. I will certainly yield that things like the Lesser Key of Solomon and Thelema can, to a cursory examiner, seem Satanic, but my question wasn't about the intellectual origin of the belief in the elites practicing Satanic rites, but, if we accept the idea that groups like O9A and Laveyans are a "smokescreen" for actual Satanists, the question then becomes: where did these actual Satanists come from, and where is the evidence?
 
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Fangsofjeff

♡ I CANNED BEEF ♡
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They probably do have some influence in world events, but I doubt Chauvin was part of the group.
I have a personal conspiracy theory that all the atheistic Satanists that secularists point to in order to say 'see? Satanism's just libertarianism the religion' are just PR strategy by darker groups, of which O9A is one. I don't think the 'fuck you Dad' eyeliner Satanists are aware that's what they are, but I think that's what they are.
I think Satanists just have different opinions on what it means to be a Satanist. It's like how Christianity has a ton of different branches.
 
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