How did you form your moral worldview? -

[TFT-A9]

I haven't spent much time thinking about how I arrived where I did, mostly because it doesn't really matter that much and there's way too much to unravel.

I operate off an assumption that people are, for the most part, lazy, obnoxious fucking assholes. The good ones are rare. Positions of power are magnets for the biggest assholes and will consequently be filled by said assholes more often than not. Good people don't generally seek power over others, at least not for its own sake. Distrust power, view it with a jaundiced and wary eye. Distrust anyone who claims to be working in your interest. Distrust honeyed words and smiles. View acts of good that take on a performative bent extremely poorly, and do good quietly without expectation of reward or adulation.

 

[ArnoldPalmer]

1. Be useful and helpful to those you care about, even and especially if it isn't advantageous to do so.
2. Greed, narcissism, overt selfishness, or most any type of sociopathic/animalistic behavior that isn't acceptable in civilized society. "Jew behavior", basically.
3. Every single day.
4. I stole a lot from Christianity, the rest is based on life experience.
5. The most defining moment was living in Florida and observing the cesspool of degenerate behavior therein. Everyone treats everyone like shit there, it's like watching monkeys at the zoo fight over a toy. No social cohesion, everyone is out to get you.
6. My dad seems to even fill the gaps in my own personal morality. I definitely don't claim to have it all figured out.
7. Yes, no.
8. Not really.
9. Engaging in modern society at all. I see no good in any of it that isn't tainted by something intrinsic to that thing.
10. Being honest about things. Prejudice. I think it's okay to see the world for what it is, even if that means not being nice.

 

[Haim Arlosoroff]

1. What is the most virtuous endeavor a person can do?

Being kind to those who can do you no good, and who society will mark you down for helping. From defending Alex Jones in a public debate, to serving a condemned child molester and murderer their request for a last meal. Staying unbent, when all of society seeks to bend you. Staying true to your word or your code when it counts rather than when it is fashionable and popular.

2. What is the opposite, the most sinful?

I believe the devil never lies, he suggests without lowering himself to outright lie. Those who are fashionably moral, but inwardly vain. Those who join journalism for the finest of reasons but fail the test and serve the beast of advertisement and politics. Those who retract their help when criticized by onlookers, those who bend their morality to a mob's fickle emotions for popularity.

3. What' the frequency where you examine the morality of your actions?

Some morals are customs, you belong because you bear the weight of doing them. I notice when others don't follow. I notice when I do. I have been lucky to witness a form of Moral Beauty or two, a mother crying over the thought of what if what she had done had hurt her child. A man toiling because he promised to do a thing. People being shamed into turning on a majority and changing their minds for the sake of their morals. I recall these moments when I'm faced with doing the right thing or the easy thing.

4.a Did you form your own opinion on morality or did it derive from an authority? 4.b Which authority?

Psalms as an adult struggling with faith, Aesop's fables which I read as a child, The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius as an angsty atheist teen without a real father figure. Finding parables in my life, Alex Jones makes for a poor Socrates but I've defended him again and again against closed-minded do-gooders who command me to think a certain way where and when there are unanswered questions. I will not vote to condemn Socrates to die, it is a moral matter not a logical one. My morality forms itself from those occasions.

I think I would have a very tough time explaining the emotional tug of moral beauty but when you see something pure it compels you to act. Its like nothing else, its impossible to describe to someone who wasn't there or who has ever witnessed something like that.

5. If you did form your own opinion, what was the most defining moment in that development?

My father was a weak man morally, he couldn't conceive of me or my sister as people separate from what he wanted me to be. He was a violent man, and a drug user before he abandoned his family. During one of those times, I remember saying in a very detached way "This is all that we will ever have, this is who you are" and he fled from me. I was a child and he cried out and ran. I think about that moment, that was the only time my father taught me anything about morality.

6a. Is there anyone you trust to have a better moral view than yourself? 6b. Why (not)?

The dead and the fictional, because their stories are fixed and over. I don't trust people to be moral without proper leadership and the pope is busy using Social Justice to project an image of himself like every corrupt rapist in Hollywood and international politics. When Iran says that it can't hit back over Soleimani's killing because America has only fictional heroes like SpongeBob SquarePants, I completely understand what they mean. Is Ben Shapiro or Sargon of Akkad supposed to help me to morally reason? Is Rabbi Yaacov Perrin supposed to help me to value human life because of our shared "Judeo-Christian" values? There is nobody, and the silence is deafening.

7a. Do you think other people should follow your moral view? 7b. Do you remove people from your life that don't?

I think social customs should mark in-group and out-group because otherwise racial traits do. However I don't socially exclude those that fall back on using racial traits to form their in-group and out-group but I find their worrying after a white liberal woman hurting herself among migrants itself to be worrying. White liberals are, beyond any other group culturally, racially, or on matters of faith, my out-group. I will live among Black Christian-Americans before I live in California or northwards along the coast. Suffer not the consumer culture's morality of the drug addict and the fashion icon.

8. Do you have any experience where you were surprised for your own sense of justice or morality?

All the time, sometimes by my intuition that something is connected to a moral issue or that someone I'm with isn't to be trusted. Sometimes annoyingly that I'm going to have to do the moral thing alone and leave the crowd I'm with. I once met a man who I thought believed like me. Then he tried to get me to buy him a carton of expensive cigarettes, the premium brand, because he had fallen on tough times. He wouldn't accept a smoke, he wanted his brand. So I told him no. He then, very calmly, tried to rob me. I nearly killed him, over cigarettes. He didn't listen to a word I ever said, he lied to everyone he ever spoke to. He was completely simple and evil. I couldn't believe a man could be an animal so simply. He wouldn't leave me alone, he couldn't be reasoned with, so we fought and he lost. Very quickly from a conversation I genuinely was gladly a part of until he suddenly dropped a mask. If I was a woman, or smaller, who knows what he would have done? His stupidity saved me far more than my judgement. A man completely turned into an animal, in an instant, because I wouldn't read the red flags and judge a man.

9. What popular activity do you consider immoral?

"Crushing Puss"

I'm very happily married, but there was a youtube debater who asked someone "whats the difference between a woman and a transwoman?" maybe it was Null or maybe Null featured it on Mad at the Internet? Maybe it was the Distributionist? It rattles around in my head when I think about my dating life before the wife and when I ponder why men and women are so broken. There isn't a difference, and so all of sex is just homosexual sodomy unless it led to marriage and family. I don't want to be the guy who promotes missionary-only and only for the purposes of procreation, but I no longer think its binary. There is a middle ground between that and chasing sex relentlessly as if it is a form of masturbation. Its stagnant, thats what I think is wrong about it. Obviously everyone should progress at their own pace, and enjoy life. But at some point, the girl you're with may as well be a dude. More and more, I think of the pervert and the sex pest as a queer form of homosexuality because it is just childish and stagnant. People wallow in it like its a drug lifestyle or a consoomerist trap.

Or Social Justice, but that is beating a dead horse. Lenin critiqued "Ultra-leftism" which was his term for it in his work '"Left-Wing" Communism: An Infantile Disorder'. When the communists know better on Guns or Social Justice, just argue using their terms. It confuses the hell out of Justice Socialists.

10. What is popularly considered immoral, but you consider moral?

*SCREAMING HOARSE GERMAN NOISES*
Political extremisms of a actually wider set then you might imagine, Anti-centrism isn't just a joke for me. Bismarck's State Socialism created Worker Committees that administered health care through individual 'sickness funds' without nationalizing the health care industry. Monarchies which organize labor without destroying the free market seem far more moral than what AOC is up to in Congress. Intervene to organize the little guy into a more competitive form in the market, don't regulate the market into 2/3rds of your taxes while still privatizing profits. Restructure the demand side of the market, not the supply. Let that reorganize naturally.

 

[Lame Entropy]

Eh morality based on some religious principles isn't inherently bad on a basic level, what kills it is all of the child molestation and "rules for ye but not for me".
I prefer learning about pagan religions merely because they acknowledge the human flaw even in Gods instead of painting them as unattainable perfect and pure figures.

 

[Lemmingwise]

I believe the devil never lies, he suggests without lowering himself to

The presuppositional prince of lies never lies?

Can you expand on this thought process?

I prefer learning about pagan religions merely because they acknowledge the human flaw even in Gods instead of painting them as unattainable perfect and pure figures.

Isn't the point of an ideal that it is unattainable and only assympotically approachable?

 

[Lame Entropy]

Isn't the point of an ideal that it is unattainable and only assympotically approachable?

I'd argue that the acknowledgement of an ideal being unattainable necessitates the acknowledgement of basic human flaw and a certain amount of leeway for the sake of fairness but the religious sect I'm familiar with was the fire and brimstone kind so I'm quite biased. It's more or less encompassed with my disagreement over the "eternal punishment for mortal sin" thing. Asides from that, it's the typical atheistic arguments that I won't bore/annoy you guys with since I doubt OP means for this to become a stupid religious debate thread.

 

[Haim Arlosoroff]

The presuppositional prince of lies never lies?

Can you expand on this thought process?

Imagine I know you completely, and imagine I can place you in the desert and starve you. I can feed you half the truth, "If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone." and if you do not remember the other truth "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." then you are lost to lies, but no lie was spoken. Journalism does this. How often we hear of the racisms of the white people, how often are non-whites racist? Never? Why do they lie then? They didn't. But they did too. They presented a selected set of facts, purposely to get you to do a thing which you would not do if presented with ALL the facts. They change your mind, to what they want without stating one untrue thing.

This is to become the lie, to embody it, there is no greater form of lying then when I only speak carefully selected truths and let your false intuitions grow and fester from my selective interpretation of the facts which were beyond your control to seek out. Governments do this, we all know this. So do Universities today.

I know why this person has their opinions, they were selective cultivated by her professors. You can cultivate opinions within entire democracies with such lies. That is the whole point of keeping secrets after all. When you see the Black man / White Woman image, and you realize it exists to push a truth into being. Forcing a thing which isn't yet true but you feel you can make it true by editing people's perceptions of reality. That authority, that authorship, is the devil from my personal point of view. It is the embodiment of evil because it doesn't ask permission anymore than you would raping or killing a person. It is done to them, and nobody will know but the perpetrator.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Asides from that, it's the typical atheistic arguments that I won't bore/annoy you guys with since I doubt OP means for this to become a stupid religious debate thread

I was OP and in any case, I don't own the thread, people should talk about whatever they fancy. I wrote the OP to leave room for both ecclesiastical and personal interpretations.

I just wanted to have a look into other people's minds/experiences in relation to this subject. Since you wondered about OP's intention, my intention wasn't for a debate, but for a sharing of why we think what we think.

For instance I wonder, what is the value of pagan religions to you if you have an atheistic world view?

 

[Lame Entropy]

I was OP and in any case, I don't own the thread, people should talk about whatever they fancy. I wrote the OP to leave room for both ecclesiastical and personal interpretations.

I just wanted to have a look into other people's minds/experiences in relation to this subject. Since you wondered about OP's intention, my intention wasn't for a debate, but for a sharing of why we think what we think.

For instance I wonder, what is the value of pagan religions to you if you have an atheistic world view?

Oh it's purely academic/entertainment type media for me, there's just more to study/interpret if human-type messiness is in the mix. Even in regular media, "perfect" characters are hardly interesting.
Anyway, I just mentioned the religious debate thing because it's too easy for these topics to fall into and focus on that.

 

[glow]

Interesting, I was thinking about this topic earlier today, specifically the first culture war I became embroiled in. A great many people in my community were religious and involved in the church or other religion, whereas I am not. I came to learn that the world we was likely formed by incredibly good fortune and many increments and improvements over an unfathomable period of time, and I could not in good consciousness say that I believed in god and so on when I knew this to be untrue.

I am not a militant atheist and I do not wear this on my sleeve, but when asked where I went to church and whether I knew pastor so-and-so I did not lie. As a teenager I was spoken about in hushed terms as if I was some kind of monster. After all, what kind of monster wouldn't believe in god? Some of my friends couldn't invite me round to their place when their parents weren't present. I was excluded from non-religious events and gatherings. IRC and later /r/atheism are today somewhat cringy but for a few years they were my oasis - finally, through the power of the internet I see I am not alone.

This was my first culture war: people wanted me to conform to their idea of morality, and I wanted them to fuck off. In some regards this has not changed today but the subjects are somewhat different.

I don't think I have interesting answers for the others but on the basis of that:

1. What is the most virtuous endeavor a person can do?

To do what you will - enjoy life in all its fullness and glory whilst remembering that one day it will be over. It is a gift to use or waste as you see fit.

2. What is the opposite, the most sinful?

Do not stop someone trying to do just that.

9. What popular activity do you consider immoral?

This business of cancelling people, especially for reasons of moral panic. I remember hearing about this emerging trend in Chinese internet about 10-15 years ago - people would try to get people fired if someone did something they didn't like, without any evidence. People would amplify something they didn't understand and people were hounded off the internet, out of work and sometimes into suicide. I thought I was so glad to live in the west where this never happened.

 

[The Great Chandler]

1. What is the most virtuous endeavor a person can do?
You know when 9/11 was happening where everyone else was running away from the crashing debris (for a serious good reason), while the firemen were headed into it? That! The willingness to disregard one's own life to save others! It's a simple virtue, but one that I highly commend

2. What is the opposite, the most sinful?
This I believe is a subjective manner when motive is put into play, but it would have be manipulating others into ruining their life. To make someone lose their soul in the process; worse if done out of joy

3. What' the frequency where you examine the morality of your actions?
I don't think much on this. Not sure if it's my confidence in knowing from right or wrong, but one thing is for certain: If you fall into a low place, get back up!

4.a Did you form your own opinion on morality or did it derive from an authority? 4.b Which authority?
You can say I formed them on my own. Though I'm pretty sure we all agree that we must have picked values from whatever place, whether it's Laozi or even Fred McFeely Rogers

5. If you did form your own opinion, what was the most defining moment in that development?
I didn't have much money at the time, but it did feel good buying a burger for this one homeless dude

6a. Is there anyone you trust to have a better moral view than yourself? 6b. Why (not)?
My older brother apparently. He seems more levelheaded than I am most times

7a. Do you think other people should follow your moral view? 7b. Do you remove people from your life that don't?
Depends depends... I just think people should be compassionate in general, while also question their virtues as well so as to not be too self-righteous. Also, it depends on who, but I know I wouldn't hang out with a hedonistic junkie chode!

8. Do you have any experience where you were surprised for your own sense of justice or morality?
Could be that time at work were a customer of mine was suffering serious muscle cramps. I was a cashier at the time, but I couldn't help see him that way, so I ran to the nearest store and bought him an aspirin. I almost got fired for doing that though (the manager was a hard ass), but that's better than leaving an old guy to suffer!

9. What popular activity do you consider immoral?
Weirdly enough, social drinking, especially the getting drunk sort. One because it's personally uncomfortable to me, but also because of how dangerous it is. I don't mean to sound like a prude, but a throbbing headache after a hangover isn't worth it! Worse if drugs are involved

10. What is popularly considered immoral, but you consider moral?
Telling someone not to chop their own dick off! I'm perfectly fine with the LGBs, but the T is what I'm concerned about

 

[Just Dont]

I'm bipolar and my morality is ever changing.

I have my core principles that stems from my parents and childhood experiences, plus what society indoctrinate into me (don't commit crimes, don't hurt others, be responsible, be proactive). Those core principles are the base that construct my entire ethos and inner self.

I also have "soft morals" which come from adult experiences and my own desires and ambitions. Those "soft morals" are based on my personality and what I believe is right.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Oh it's purely academic/entertainment type media for me, there's just more to study/interpret if human-type messiness is in the mix. Even in regular media, "perfect" characters are hardly interesting.
Anyway, I just mentioned the religious debate thing because it's too easy for these topics to fall into and focus on that.

I find the same in studying the lives and writings of christian thinkers like aquinas (as well as non christian thinkers). There is instant human messiness, if that's what you're looking for.

It seems to me that there is more at play for you than just the supposed perfection (even though I'm sure it's a factor). I may be wrong, just an instinct.

To do what you will - enjoy life in all its fullness and glory whilst remembering that one day it will be over. It is a gift to use or waste as you see fit

Interesting post overall. Surprising that you word it almost verbatim as anton lavey did.

 

[MAPK phosphatase]

I just stole most of the morality from Christianity and Stoicism and now pretend it's a conclusion I came to through reason.

 

[Just Another Apocalypse]

I am curious where people's morality derives from, if you observe any knowingly.

I find that nobody is immune from acting as moral agents, even nihilists or hedonists can be observed doing things or holding beliefs that seem to be more for moral reasons than pure selfishness.

Of course, no matter what ideals a person has, nobody is perfect in following it.

So unless you want to write an essay about how your moral framework was formed, let's ask a couple of questions to get things started:

1. What is the most virtuous endeavor a person can do?

2. What is the opposite, the most sinful?

3. What' the frequency where you examine the morality of your actions?

4.a Did you form your own opinion on morality or did it derive from an authority? 4.b Which authority?

5. If you did form your own opinion, what was the most defining moment in that development?

6a. Is there anyone you trust to have a better moral view than yourself? 6b. Why (not)?

7a. Do you think other people should follow your moral view? 7b. Do you remove people from your life that don't?

8. Do you have any experience where you were surprised for your own sense of justice or morality?

9. What popular activity do you consider immoral?

10. What is popularly considered immoral, but you consider moral?

And yes, this going into my interpol database.

1. To save a life. 'To save one life is to save all humanity's
2. Noncing
3. Wha...???
4a No. B. Jesse Duke (no relation to David)
5.
6.a No. b. Trust no one, not even your own guru.
7a No. B No
8. Again: Wha...???
9. Enabling troonery
10. Pointing out troons are mindsick.

 

[Madre Muerte]

Gypsies came and messed up my country

 

[glow]

Interesting post overall. Surprising that you word it almost verbatim as anton lavey did.

I hadn't heard of that guy, but having read about him and his group for the last 30 minutes or so, I realise that use that phrase because someone I knew in passing once used the phrase once and it stuck with me. It wouldn't surprise me if he would have been into this sort of thing or at least curious. It's a shame I never knew him better, I wouldn't know how to get into contact with him.

Thanks for the reference. This is an interesting body of work and I do see a lot of my views reflected back, at least in the lightweight reading I've done so far. I will be sure to read more.

I had just simplistically assumed it was an organisation for edgelords and attention seekers but never actually read about it. There's a lot to read about but this bit on their FAQ blew apart a load of my thoughts on the matter:

Why do Satanists worship The Devil?​

We don’t. Satanists are atheists. We see the universe as being indifferent to us, and so all morals and values are subjective human constructions.
[...]
Satan to us is a symbol of pride, liberty and individualism, and it serves as an external metaphorical projection of our highest personal potential. We do not believe in Satan as a being or person.

Do Satanists perform sacrifices?​

No. We are atheists. The only people who perform sacrifices are those who believe in supernatural beings who would consider a sacrifice to be some form of payment for a request or form of worship. Since we do not believe in supernatural beings there is no reason for a Satanist to make a sacrifice of any sort.

(source)

Honestly, I hadn't expected satanists to be so reasonable.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Honestly, I hadn't expected satanists to be so reasonable.

Most religions are pretty reasonable in the brochure. It was his diary about how sex magick requires raping children that may make him a little less reasonable.

Feminists say they're about equality, christians say it is all about being saved, scientology says it's about an interesting personality test.... and before you know it you're a member and the requirements present themselves.

Oh it's purely academic/entertainment type media for me, there's just more to study/interpret if human-type messiness is in the mix.

One more thing...

I think it's sad how little we really know about pagan practices. Nordic paganism wasn't written about until the active practice was gone for about 200 years.

 

[Cheerlead-in-Chief]

Most religions are pretty reasonable in the brochure. It was his diary about how sex magick requires raping children that may make him a little less reasonable.

Feminists say they're about equality, christians say it is all about being saved, scientology says it's about an interesting personality test.... and before you know it you're a member and the requirements present themselves.


One more thing...

I think it's sad how little we really know about pagan practices. Nordic paganism wasn't written about until the active practice was gone for about 200 years.

So how do I get into Satanism or Wicca?

 

[Kermit Jizz]

I've been noticing that lately, especially in the last year my moral compass is increasingly defined by whatever boomers/Christians from decades ago used to say. I'm not arguing that this is necessarily a good way to form morality, but considering they've been right about just about fucking everything who am I to argue?

This shit with the Blues Clues faggot parade having the pedo flag is another win for the above reasoning. I personally don't have any issues with gays, but fuck it the christ-tards were right about LGBT being a front for pedos. I now am fully in the "fags get the rope" camp.

I think I'm just at the point where I'm going to trust the wisdom of our traditions for my morals from now on. I may (or may not, take your pick) be smarter than most individual christ-tards, but they are speaking the wisdom of countless generations of humans. I just have to accept that despite my personal feelings, there is probably a damn good reason every single distinct culture throughout human history has hated faggotry, race mixing, niggers, general degenracy, female leadership/freedom, and so forth.