I believe nationalism can be a force for good against oppression and tyranny, however, it can be used for the wrong purposes like what happened in Nazi Germany and the Holocaust or Yugoslavia. Patriotism seems a lot more milder and less dogmatic.
How do you feel about nationalism and patriotism? - How does it affect nations and the relationships with other countries and its own inhabitants/people?
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It's "nationalism" if you want to slander it and "patriotism" if you want to fellate it.
What's the problem?
Answer the question.
Nationalism can be a force for good and while it's important to love your country, you should think about others and make sure to consider their needs. If we aren't careful, unresolved tensions between ethnic groups can stir up war and conflict such as the collapse of Yugoslavia after the death of Tito. Sorry I wasn't clear enough. I hope that answered your question.
And this has what to do with a bunch of dead rodents exactly?
A historical lesson (that may never be learnt) I suppose.
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DiscoRodeo
kiwifarms.net
Its pretty stupid for most people.
Saying that, I think its a natural and great concept. Why Id say that is because, I do believe everything we are, everything we live within, all we eat, all we do, etc- it comes from the sweat of others and took great societal effort to get to where we are today. I think, in a sense, we do owe a debt to our ancestors for bringin us where we are and its on us to make them proud.
I think the problem with nationalism is people want to brag about the triumphs of ancestors or their nation state, without actually paying back their own debt or duty to said nationstate that has enriched their own life.
Take it in a starship troopers way, if you want- citizens are people who have served. If you're not someone who has done their duty within their nation and know what that entails, more often than not nationalism just manifests as cope.
Saying that, I think its a natural and great concept. Why Id say that is because, I do believe everything we are, everything we live within, all we eat, all we do, etc- it comes from the sweat of others and took great societal effort to get to where we are today. I think, in a sense, we do owe a debt to our ancestors for bringin us where we are and its on us to make them proud.
I think the problem with nationalism is people want to brag about the triumphs of ancestors or their nation state, without actually paying back their own debt or duty to said nationstate that has enriched their own life.
Take it in a starship troopers way, if you want- citizens are people who have served. If you're not someone who has done their duty within their nation and know what that entails, more often than not nationalism just manifests as cope.
I've always broadly viewed having a nation (or a religion, for that matter) in the same way I view having a penis.
It's okay to have one. And it's quite okay to be proud of it! But you shouldn't wave it in other people's faces - and you certainly shouldn't shove it down their children's throats.
It's okay to have one. And it's quite okay to be proud of it! But you shouldn't wave it in other people's faces - and you certainly shouldn't shove it down their children's throats.
raspberry mocha
kiwifarms.net
Nationalism is just the original identity politics, and more organic so probably it's healthier. At least compared to globalism, which is genetically modified to hell and unnaturally pink.
FaramirG
kiwifarms.net
Patriotism and the interests of you and your neighbors don't always go hand in hand, though. Your nation's leaders might do something that's great for the nation as a whole (short-term or long-term), but is utterly shit for you and your neighbors, and maybe your entire town, or even your entire state/province.
EDIT: Like for example during the Second Punic War, after Hannibal decimated two massive Roman armies, the new Roman strategy became "stay out of his way, tire his army out, if his army comes your way, burn your crops, and run for the nearest fortified city". If you're a farmer in a small village in Hannibal's path, you're essentially being ordered to burn or at least abandon your home, and become a beggar in the nearest city. That is not in your interest, or your neighbor's interest. Hannibal's strategy revolved around getting people like you onto his side, on the promise that he'd just be asking you to supply what you supplied Rome. But it's for the good of Rome, and you're a patriot so you do it. And then you starve to death in a gutter for your trouble.
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I agree to an extent.
When I think of patriotism though, I don't think of my government. Much less my federal government hundreds of miles away.
I think of my countrymen, those who spilled blood, including their own, for this land.
I think of the times and memories spent here. A land that watched me come into this world and grow, and all that jazz.
For example, the federal government is trying their damnest to make coloreds a protected class, yet my neighbors and social group completely ignore that shit and treat ourselves the same as always. Fuck the government's idea of neo-tribalism; integration & assimilation.
What about retronationalism?
Manifest destiny, bitches!
Manifest destiny, bitches!
It all depends on whether or not your being sensible about it.
For example, I am proud to be an American. But I don't let that blind me to current societal and economic issues our great country suffers from. The fact that I love America is WHY I care about those issues and want things to improve.
Someone who has no pride as an American will simply revel in the issues in an almost perverse act of infantile rebellion. Praying and hoping or even actively participating so more things go wrong so they can justify bitching and moaning more.
Someone who has too much pride won't even accept America has problems and will adamantly refuse to acknowledge them as the cracks escalate into bigger and bigger issues.
For example, I am proud to be an American. But I don't let that blind me to current societal and economic issues our great country suffers from. The fact that I love America is WHY I care about those issues and want things to improve.
Someone who has no pride as an American will simply revel in the issues in an almost perverse act of infantile rebellion. Praying and hoping or even actively participating so more things go wrong so they can justify bitching and moaning more.
Someone who has too much pride won't even accept America has problems and will adamantly refuse to acknowledge them as the cracks escalate into bigger and bigger issues.
I think Orwell said it in a way that resonates with my way of thinking.
"Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By ‘patriotism’ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
I am very glad to be Australian, and would not particularly want to be a citizen of any other country, but my interest stops at the coastline, and I'd much prefer that we focussed all our attention on improving the lives of our people, rather than getting involved in the rest of the world..
"Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By ‘patriotism’ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality."
I am very glad to be Australian, and would not particularly want to be a citizen of any other country, but my interest stops at the coastline, and I'd much prefer that we focussed all our attention on improving the lives of our people, rather than getting involved in the rest of the world..
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