How the rest of the rest of the world could help fix the Middle East? -

[Takayuki Yagami]

What could the West, Russia, who-the-fuck-ever do to actually make the Middle East less of a shithole? I doubt balkanizing the place would fix anything, the only secular state there had to have the military purge the government twice a generation(and the Erdogen coup indicates they can't donit anymore), and the only thing that seems to bind any of the people there is that most of them hate the Jews. It's a crap intro, but I'm curious what you all would say that doesn't involve a reconquista or nukes.

 

[Cheap Sandals]

There isn't much the West can do via material means to help the working class of the Middle East. From what I understand, this is for a number of reasons. I am ready and happy to be corrected if I am misunderstanding. These opinions are based on my own background, my own religious upbringing, and my current observations.

First, because any material aid such as food or building supplies going in are distributed by the local government which feeds itself and its army before the population get a taste, and thus the status quo is preserved.

Second, cultural input is also distributed by local governments. The Middle East is insular, xenophobic and paranoid. They absolutely reject overt cultural interactions between itself and what it perceives as the Great Corrupter of Morals, or what we refer to as 'the West'. Covert cultural interaction happens, of course, but the language barrier and lack of common literacy restricts this to the intelligentsia/bourgeoisie of their respective countries (basically the rich bitches who live in cities, can afford internet and have free time to read).

Although atheist and progressive texts translated (badly) into Egyptian Arabic (the lingua franca of the Middle East) are the hottest torrents around right now (each new text drops like a bombshell), the inability of these modern concepts to penetrate the stone-wall illiteracy of the Middle Eastern blue collar means tribalism rules the roost. And the ruling ethos of this 'tribe' is Salafist Islam and its lesser strains. It does not jibe well with post-Enlightenment thought which even the hardcore conservative Westerners believe. They are alien to each other.

So both material and cultural input are going to be altered (perverted) by the local governments where the governments exist. It's going to be difficult to establish an authentic and helpful relationship with the local populace when they think you're an invading Satan who preaches Free Love and Materialism to Destroy their Eternal Souls.

But what if the government doesn't exist? Because the government doesn't exist once you leave town. Then you get to deal with local warlord. Warlords are much worse than anything you think. They're the toughest sonofabitch who rose to the top of a pile of sonofabitches, and this guy is in control because no one else can take it from him. They do things like sell slaves, force children to become soldiers (and THEN sell them as slaves) and also keep women as slaves. They like slaves, because God said they can have slaves. They also consume a lot of drugs, because if you get your soldiers high on meth they don't feel fear or pain and they'll kill a lot. So just be aware that the kickback money you pay your local warlord to leave you alone is going towards methamphetamines.

Say you want to do a public works project like a hydro-electric dam to provide power to your wartorn city. Let's say you pay off the local militias and you also have support of the local government. Well, the countryside warlords would definitely oppose you and kill your workers/scientists because that threatens their control. Good luck developing the country outside cities, you stupid idiot. The Russians did it at the expense of a lot of soldiers and money, and the past few decades have been spent blowing up all their efforts. Marvelous.

All of these are just general problems that can be generalized to a lot of disparate regions. The specific problems of specific regions (Iran vs Afghanistan vs Pakistan vs Egypt) are too numerous to list. I'm just trying to make the average webzone browser be kinda aware of the enormous obstacles facing efforts to engage with the Middle East.

edit: TL;DR: The best thing the West could possibly do for the Middle East is to stop needing oil.

 

[millais]

Trump and Putin could turn it into radioactive glass overnight. Everyone goes home happy except the petroleum companies, because fuck them.

 

[Somsnosa]

We won't help the middle-east, otherwise it'd hurt our modern lifestyle. All we can do is stop terrorism attacks in the west and let them kill eachother over there

 

[Malodorous Merkin]

Nuke Abdul, he's uncool.

 

[Ntwadumela]

-Put in competent rulers for the majority of nations
-Increase education of foreign cultures as well as human rights
-Destroy the extremist groups.
I know but this is what should be done IMO

 

[i_love_kiwifarms]

it's hard to say
i'm a muslim by blood and while i don't think islam is particularly bad or good, i still think the reason that christianity (the west) was able to reform and not islam was because of the specific anti-reformation laws in islam and the fact that education/wealth is much more accessible and distributed in the west

someone needs to come along, something needs to happen to make muslims seek widespread reformation despite the quran telling them not to do so

most american muslims who have lived here for decades have already begun doing this subconsciously thru being mixed into the american melting pot, but the ones back in islamic countries don't have any reformed melting pot society to kinda...sink into

it's much more complicated than many ppl make it out to be. there's no good or bad religion or region or anything. human behavior is all predictable when given different resources and rules to live by

 

[Vitriol]

Ignore the meiddle east, quarantine it and eventually a despot or collections of despots will bring order to the region. Then with say 150years of stability they might be ready for civilisation.

 

[Antipathy]

Just let them kill each other until an agreement is reached. Or try and educate and de-radicalize them, but that's expensive.

 

[Julius Evola]

Turn the whole region into glass

 

[AA 102]

The fact that countries feel the need to "fix" other countries is the problem. Just leave them alone. Let them kill each other. Hell, maybe they'll figure shit out on their own after a few hundred years.

 

[Some JERK]

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit.

 

[Bassomatic]

The fact that countries feel the need to "fix" other countries is the problem. Just leave them alone. Let them kill each other. Hell, maybe they'll figure shit out on their own after a few hundred years.

Pretty much pre 1900, we've done that. It causes a lot less deaths in the west but around same barbaric behavior in the ME, for around 5000 years.

 

[Sinner's Sandwich]

Step 1: Kill Islam

 

[Arse Biscuit]

Stop selling them food.

 

[Daughter of Cernunnos]

Help Russia support the Syrian Army in fighting ISIS. Stop helping Israel and taking Saudi bribes then hypocritically complaining about other Islamic theocracies like Iran which happen to not totally suck US cock or at least didn't. Stop undermining and/or destroying the independence of many countries such as Iraq, Syria, Libya etc. Just generally stop the imperialism or else anything that happens to Americans and especially their military is justified.

 

[Cuck Norris]

 

[WireSponge]

Short term solutions are pretty much nil. There are some ways to theoretically fix it in the long run, but any reasonable solution would be a slow, painful process that would likely take hundreds of years to complete. That being said, this is more than enough of a problem that a long term solution is worth the time.

The best way to help the middle-east as I see it is to take a more discreet method that doesn't require helping the existing, backwards governments within the middle-east. My personal theory is that Europe should look to the more moderate parts (stay with me here) of the Muslim world outside of the Middle East and support them to lead by example for the rest. While no parts of the Muslim world would be considered progressive by western standards, there are countries in the Muslim world that seem open to westernization and more progressive change. Morocco is one of the only self-sufficient nations in West Africa, fond of the West, (many Moroccans like to call themselves "Southern Europeans" and Morocco has been historical friends with America) and their government has been steadily democratizing and westernizing, showing at least some openness to change. To skip to the top option, Indonesia is probably the best choice for a nation to help lead the Muslim world by example.

Attention: The parentheses are where I'm giving examples and occasionally explaining the complex issues in Indonesia that I touch upon, so if you don't care about that stuff ignore those parts. There is a lot of extra information and if you aren't interested it's probably tl;dr.

Indonesia:

- Is objectively already one of the most advanced Muslim countries both technologically and economically (from a technological standpoint they're practically modern. The only thing holding them back from being caught up there is that the country has industrialized/modernized so recently that that some rural parts of the country haven't gone through the process yet, which is why the country that at one time had the most Facebook users in the world also has people who still wipe their ass with their hand.)

-Has industrialized rapidly and effectively (see above point)

- Was founded with racial/religious diversity and acceptance as a central theme (the nation is the unifying of numerous local ethnicities, the calendar has holidays from several religions, the national motto is "Unity in diversity.")

-Are projected to likely be one of Asia's leading powers in the future. (This link goes over the basics of why)

-Are the most Muslim country in the world.

-Are already a Democracy (with presidents and everything)

-Have a highly anti-terrorist government and one of the most brutally effective anti-terrorist units in the world. (This deserves a long explanation because the answer is really interesting. Basically, the reason why everyone hates terrorism is because Indonesian anarchists and seperatists will join terrorist groups to commit anti-government crimes. Indonesian terrorism is a very domestic problem similar to American gang violence, and many Muslim Indonesians have had family or friends killed by terrorists. This has massively backfired on terrorists, as Indonesia is a Democracy and the people have now voted in staunchly anti-terrorist politicians into power. They treat terrorists and terrorist-sympathizers how Duterte treats drug addicts.
Wiki link on the subject again for the basics on terrorism in Indonesia)

-Are extremely progressive for a Muslim country, to the point where LGBT rights are currently the most hot-button issue in Indonesia. (I'm not going to paint it like Indonesia is a safe haven for gay people. Gay rights are an intensely controversial issue in the country and violence against LBGT people by conservative extremists is common. Many government officials, including the president's spokesman, have expressed anti-LGBT views and attempted to push anti-LGBT laws, and the vast majority of the population still does not find being gay acceptable.
However, organizations and movements to one day have full rights for LGBT people in Indonesia have already taken root, and the president has come out in support for the rights of LGBT citizens, stating he wants himself and other famous Indonesians to come out in support of LGBT rights and set an example for the rest of the country. It should be noted that being reelected in Indonesia is very difficult, and the president has most likely killed his chances of being in a government office ever again by taking such a controversial stance. While LGBT rights are far from good in the country, the fact that improvement of LGBT rights is being discussed at all, much less to the point where the president is risking his political career for it, is a huge step forward from the rest of the Islamic world and speaks volumes about how open Indonesia is towards change.)


If we focused our efforts on improving rights on countries that have actually shown a willingness to change, countries like Morocco and Indonesia, they could influence the Islamic world far better than Westerners are doing right now by focusing on improving countries at the heart of the problem where things are already too far gone to change without just taking everything over.

 

[Aquinas]

With a crusade

 

[El Garbage]

Support only secular leaders and slander the worst islamists with a vicious fake news campaign, treat the whole thing like a US presidential election. Also airdrop millions of tablet computers with internet connections, porn collections and Kiwi Farms accounts to the poor, that'll turn them into apathetic, useless individuals.