How to determine what are Rights - And what are Privliges

mindlessobserver

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Fun little thought experiment that pretty much determines what are "natural rights" and what are privileges.

Pretty much every human being in this scenario has died. Maybe of the flu, maybe in a nuclear holocaust. You are, for all you know, the only living human around.

Do you have a right to be provided food, shelter, or healthcare?
Nope. Nature is not going to give you any of these things.

You do however have the right to find your own food, eat it, build your own shelter from the elements and stay in it, and to try and maintain your own body as best as possible. All these things you can do and there is nobody around to tell you otherwise.

Do you have a right to sex and reproduction?

Nope. There are no women around. If a woman does happen to wander along, she has the right to kill you in this post-civilization state of nature if she does not want you to attempt to use her body for reproduction. Nobody can stop her. If for some reason you succeed despite her objections, she also has a right to leave the baby to the elements after its born. Nothing can stop her. Now you could argue this is immoral, but that is adding a layer of control to what she could naturally do.

You could pretty much apply many different arguments using this thought experiment to sort out what is a natural inalienable right and what is a privlige or product of civilizations veneer of morality. Invariably though it boils down essentially to you have the right to your own labor, territorial space, and the integrity of your body.
 

The Shadow

I hate nerds more than I hate MAD agents!
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Right is the one not on the left side.
 

The Manglement

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The word 'right' by definition has a moral component. You're thinking of them like they're some magic rule for the universe or law of physics, when they're really just a human way of thinking about the way the universe should be. John Locke said the natural rights were 'life, liberty, and property', but some people are poor and everyone dies, so what the fuck does that idiot know.
 

Bassomatic

HOW DO I KNOW YOU'RE NOT MAKAROV
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Your rights are completely dependant on what country you're a citizen of.
Sadly this is the view many people take. Rights are inherent. Even the founding Fathers of the US said so, the Bill of Rights was written that "god" gave us these and we swear we aren't gonna fuck with em (yet that went out the window fast)
The big difference between a right and a privilege means other people willingly take part. As said, having children is a right. It is also a privilege. Because you can't do that shit on your own. Even if you pay for a surrogate, they have the right to refuse you service.
Exchanges are privileges, because you either need to use violence to force them or they happen only when it's desired. States (and statists) are more than willing to bend words to suit a need. Universal healthcare should be a right. If you want your doctor to graft fucking bird wings, give you a nose job or fix your lazy eye. I fully support you should be able to get that done. Now if your doctor says making you a bird hybrid is retarded that's his right to refuse service, and more so it ain't coming on my dime. We all should have access to services but if you are denied from every provider, that means either you can not afford the service or your desire is so disgusting literally no on in a field chooses to serve you. I really don't think it would be the fault of ALL doctors if not a single one wanted to make you into a bird man. It would kinda be you for being an idiot. Now if you want to find a bridge builder to do it... by all means, and good luck on that.

That's why in it's base form, income tax is well, theft. I'm paying for a service I may not want like or be able to use. I have no say. The old joke of I didn't sign the social contract rings true. Your rights are very wide as a human, we are taught and forced not to enjoy them or have them. Things that are basic rights have been taken and handed back in some form as a good grace and told to be thankful for only taking some of them.

Where do rights end? When you create a danger or harm to those around you. Free speech for example, the difference from hurt fee fees and threats. If this could be applied towards other rights that would be a wonderful advancement. For example, why do you HAVE to have health insurance? Car insurance, we have a legal system in place as well as insurance for uninsured drivers already. It would be dumb as fuck due to costs but if you slam into me and don't have insurance, you are a criminal as well as a civil matter. I have no insurance coverage already that's an option. So if you want to risk being liable for damages over the 30 bucks a month Geico gets that's on you. Sadly this country and many others would need oodles of tort reform. I happen to like the car insurance one as it's a clear system in place active already for the "what if someone hits you" I've been hit with someone with no insurance, and no money you can't get blood out of the stone that's correct. Making him pay legals fees kinda slows down the money he owes me and I don't think the state suffered any damages. Only my bumper.

tl;dr
your rights end where my feelings begin.
 

Hellbound Hellhound

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There is no such thing as 'natural rights' unless you're willing to subscribe to a might makes right philosophy where rights are defined as anything you're capable of doing to survive. That is the only real right that is recognized by nature, and until relatively recently when people started thinking about this stuff more philosophically, it was practically the only right that was recognized by human societies as well.

Throughout most of human history, the king or tribal elder had the right to do pretty much whatever he wanted, and everyone else had to live accordingly. Eventually, people decided that this was less than optimal for the majority of people, and so they slowly went about the task of working together to create a more free and equitable society where rights were spread more evenly. The point to take from this is that rights are simply an entitlement that we humans decide (often arbitrarily) that we ought to have, and the rights we do end up with are almost entirely dependent upon the society we happen to be a part of.

Rights have no utility outside of society, and they don't exist outside of it. If everyone but you got infected with a virus that turned them into a bunch of murderous zombies, then your right to life would no longer exist.
 

Bassomatic

HOW DO I KNOW YOU'RE NOT MAKAROV
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Rights are what a society holds as sacred. The UK gives people the right to not be offended and the US gives people the right to be free.
If we were more free here, I wouldn't have to pay for people's welfare and those dastardly ATF agents would give me back my VX gas.
 

Your Weird Fetish

Intersectional fetishist
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Natural rights as a concept can't even survive debate on a forum for stalking an autistic trannie.

Humanity has lived too long.
 

Snuckening

Go to ACP to renew XenForo
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"Natural rights" only makes sense if you're religious; without God's 'because I said so' powers, the idea of natural rights makes no sense. Apart from that, rights are only real as a certain kind of law- your rights are whatever the government says they are. Outside of that "legal rights" context, there's no differences between "rights" and "wishes" or "things I want to be true".