I have a theory on the downfall of the West - I think the elites are making a very simple mistake of only looking at mathematical measured outcomes instead of the larger picture

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How should a government judge it is doing the right thing once in power?


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Syaoran Li

Oh, What a Night! Late December back in '63!
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Reagan was libertarian free market bullshit. not true conservative. and neocons are not conservative either, they're libertarian.
View attachment 2005074
And looking at this chart there was no religious resurgence in the 80s and 90s

So, basically anyone who isn't some 17th Century Puritan or wants a return to medieval feudalism isn't a "real conservative", I take it?

Also, the neocons like Reagan were only able to get as far as they did by riding the coattails of the Religious Right, which got its start as the pendulum swinging back against the New Left of the 1960's and 1970's.

Ironically, the neocons couldn't have gained power without the backing of the fundies in the early 80's but by the 90's and 2000's, the Religious Right couldn't have any actual influence without the neocons propping them up.
 

RussianParasite

Не ходи на выборы
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
So, basically anyone who isn't some 17th Century Puritan or wants a return to medieval feudalism isn't a "real conservative", I take it?
Get out of here with the Feudalism shit, libtard. Everyone knows small tribal and nomadic societies are the real conservatives.

Farming and animal husbandry will lead to the moral decay of mankind.
 

Samson Pumpkin Jr.

kiwifarms.net
So, basically anyone who isn't some 17th Century Puritan or wants a return to medieval feudalism isn't a "real conservative", I take it?

Also, the neocons like Reagan were only able to get as far as they did by riding the coattails of the Religious Right, which got its start as the pendulum swinging back against the New Left of the 1960's and 1970's.

Ironically, the neocons couldn't have gained power without the backing of the fundies in the early 80's but by the 90's and 2000's, the Religious Right couldn't have any actual influence without the neocons propping them up.
If the people who were elected make no attempt to conserve anything are they conservative? conservatives believe in security, the free market is the most unstable and liberal force to exist. if you believe in free trade or the free market you have to be really far right on other issues to make up for it
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Screenshot 2021-03-17 153009.png Here are the stats for Reagan's 1980 victory. I don't know why Reagan won in a landslide, but even if religious fundamentalists did make a plurality of the country (~30%)and they all supported him it wouldn't explain Reagan's landslide. Also, young people supported Reagan in what looks like record numbers. Does that mean young people came out as religious zealots in the 80s?
 
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Syaoran Li

Oh, What a Night! Late December back in '63!
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
If the people who were elected make no attempt to conserve anything are they conservative? conservatives believe in security, the free market is the most unstable and liberal force to exist. if you believe in free trade or the free market you have to be really far right on other issues to make up for it
edit:
View attachment 2005427 Here are the stats for Reagan's 1980 victory. I don't know why Reagan won in a landslide, but even if religious fundamentalists did make a plurality of the country (~30%)and they all supported him it wouldn't explain Reagan's landslide. Also, young people supported Reagan in what looks like record numbers. Does that mean young people came out as religious zealots in the 80s?

And here comes the "hurr durr what r we conserving?" mantra. That is like the traditionalist equivalent of "That wasn't real socialism!" cope from the Antifa crowd.

Some things are not worth conserving and even then, a lot of these leaders tried to conserve but failed miserably.
 

Samson Pumpkin Jr.

kiwifarms.net
And here comes the "hurr durr what r we conserving?" mantra. That is like the traditionalist equivalent of "That wasn't real socialism!" cope from the Antifa crowd.

Some things are not worth conserving and even then, a lot of these leaders tried to conserve but failed miserably.
people are not ants. tradition exists to increase happiness. libertarians get rid of traditions because it messes with their bottom line. Explain why so many people 18-21 voted for Reagan. Joe Rogan has a nice work life balance
 

Syaoran Li

Oh, What a Night! Late December back in '63!
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
people are not ants. tradition exists to increase happiness. libertarians get rid of traditions because it messes with their bottom line. Explain why so many people 18-21 voted for Reagan. Joe Rogan has a nice work life balance

"Tradition" does not increase happiness, that is a traditionalist cope

Contrary to what The Distributist or Nick Fuentes will tell you, the vast majority of people were extremely miserable in the heyday of your traditionalism and were often poor, but the misery manifested differently and was far less well-documented due to technological differences.

I guarantee you the majority of people were probably miserable in medieval Europe and Puritan New England and they were definitely miserable in Appalachia during the 1980's and 1990's. And yet all of these are morally conservative traditionalist societies.

Also, another reason for Reagan's landslide victories in addition to the Religious Right were the fact Carter and Mondale were seen as weak candidates and Carter presided over both a massive recession and the Iranian Revolution.
 
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Samson Pumpkin Jr.

kiwifarms.net
"Tradition" does not increase happiness, that is a traditionalist cope

Contrary to what The Distributist or Nick Fuentes will tell you, the vast majority of people were extremely miserable in the heyday of your traditionalism and were often poor, but the misery manifested differently and was far less well-documented due to technological differences.

I guarantee you the majority of people were probably miserable in medieval Europe and Puritan New England and I know for a fact they were definitely miserable in Appalachia during the 1980's and 1990's. And yet all of these are morally conservative traditionalist societies.

Also, another reason for Reagan's landslide victories in addition to the Religious Right were the fact Carter and Mondale were seen as weak candidates and Carter presided over both a massive recession and the Iranian Revolution.
ok, you're pretty entrenched in your position. I can't convince, take a look at this video and maybe it will give you a little perspective:
I don't agree with Joe Rogan on this particular issue anyways
 

Syaoran Li

Oh, What a Night! Late December back in '63!
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
ok, you're pretty entrenched in your position. I can't convince, take a look at this video and maybe it will give you a little perspective:
I don't agree with Joe Rogan on this particular issue anyways

What is it with you and Joe Rogan? I honestly don't get it.
 

ToroidalBoat

Token Hispanic Friend
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
The typical modern American city really is like a machine. From the air, it looks like a circuit board. The cheap corporate-built buildings look like electronic components, and the roads look like circuit pathways. Down on the ground, there's no real society. Everyone is isolated in their homes, mechanized transport, or at places of business (remember that SpongeBob clip?).

Only technology and mechanistic routine - with an over-reliance on the vendor system - keeps things going. Even food is distributed by vendors in bullshit portions at bullshit prices from industrial processing. And to keep things running, the modern world has to have excessive rules. Many live the same.

All most people can do is work and consume, or go to school to work and consume. Modern work itself is often enough driven by "scientific management", which often enough takes place in ugly and depressing fluorescent-lit factory-like environments - or actual factories. Gone are the days where one could more or less easily make a living on their own.

What little culture is left seems to be eroding away - especially with this "New Normal". Consumerism and politics - especially now - seem to be replacing it.

Socialization normally only happens in cliques. Technology is increasingly eroding that away, with "real life" increasingly being replaced with tech.

Not everything modern is bad of course, and the past wasn't exactly pleasant. But the combination that is the modern world is a miserable hell - although media and a social life can help one cope.

And power-hungry elite who run the show want it this way. A cybernetic hive of consumer serfs. A cyberpunk dystopia.
 
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JamesFargo

saying "Oh cool" as I put the gun in my mouth
kiwifarms.net
So, basically anyone who isn't some 17th Century Puritan or wants a return to medieval feudalism isn't a "real conservative", I take it?
That's the long and short of it, yeah.

After all, paleocons started the country, and Cotton Mather is more central to their beliefs than anybody on Mount Rushmore.
 

Syaoran Li

Oh, What a Night! Late December back in '63!
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
That's the long and short of it, yeah.

After all, paleocons started the country, and Cotton Mather is more central to their beliefs than anybody on Mount Rushmore.

It's eerie and rather ironic that the modern Northern blue states were founded by Calvinist zealots while the Southern red states were founded by well-educated classically liberal rum-swilling libertines.

Prior to 1865, the Northeast was socially conservative and Bible-thumping while the South was socially liberal. Slavery was seen as more of an economic issue than a civil rights issue until 1863 with the Emancipation Proclamation,

Really, it wasn't until the destruction of the Civil War and the mess that was Reconstruction that the script was flipped. In the old days, Boston was seen as a hive of traditionalists and stuffy church ladies who were fun-hating prudes even by Puritan standards.

Hell, up until the early 20th Century, Boston was seen as a very right wing city thanks to both the old guard Anglo Puritans and the waves of hardliner trad Catholics from Ireland and Italy.

Even M*A*S*H was cracking jokes about how even Disney movies could wind up "Banned in Boston" as late as the 1970's (granted, the show was a period piece set in the early 1950's but still)
 

DeadFish

I've may have made some mistakes...
kiwifarms.net
Get out of here with the Feudalism shit, libtard. Everyone knows small tribal and nomadic societies are the real conservatives.

Farming and animal husbandry will lead to the moral decay of mankind.
I un ironically believe in this. Small societies have less systemic flaws then large ones.

Take crime for example. In current day america there is a very expensive justice system. Which barely functions or is abused.

In a tribe? Exile them. They fuck up? Show them the door.

Telling people to leave and don't come back is cheaper, more morally sound and isn't going to get gamed.
 

RussianParasite

Не ходи на выборы
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I un ironically believe in this. Small societies have less systemic flaws then large ones.

Take crime for example. In current day america there is a very expensive justice system. Which barely functions or is abused.

In a tribe? Exile them. They fuck up? Show them the door.

Telling people to leave and don't come back is cheaper, more morally sound and isn't going to get gamed.
Literally all modern things that people take for granted require a large amount of people/ complex supply chains to get done. People in small tribal societies would not, and do not, have access to running water, reliable food supplies, weather forecasts, automobiles, guns, phones, electricity (imagine not posting on Kiwi Farms!), medical supplies, etc.

Even the simple solution of exiling someone if they fuck up is more complicated as who gets to determine who did something wrong? You’d hope you, but maybe your tribal leader just doesn’t like you all that much and thinks you’re worthless or simply wants to fuck your spouse and get rid of you.

Life isn’t fair in any society.

If you truly believe it is then go join an existing nomadic/tribal culture (they absolutely exist) or make one of your own. No one is stopping you from dropping out of our oh-so-terrible society.
 

DeadFish

I've may have made some mistakes...
kiwifarms.net
Literally all modern things that people take for granted require a large amount of people/ complex supply chains to get done. People in small tribal societies would not, and do not, have access to running water, reliable food supplies, weather forecasts, automobiles, guns, phones, electricity (imagine not posting on Kiwi Farms!), medical supplies, etc.

Even the simple solution of exiling someone if they fuck up is more complicated as who gets to determine who did something wrong? You’d hope you, but maybe your tribal leader just doesn’t like you all that much and thinks you’re worthless or simply wants to fuck your spouse and get rid of you.

Life isn’t fair in any society.

If you truly believe it is then go join an existing nomadic/tribal culture (they absolutely exist) or make one of your own. No one is stopping you from dropping out of our oh-so-terrible society.
A "tribe" is any small group where everyone knows each other via a personal basis (and not via an abstract system). The scientific limit of individuals for this is 150.

So 150 billionaires who grew up with each other counts as a tribe.

Jews count as a tribe and they live in modern society.

Five people living as roomates could count as a tribe.

It's easier to create a small group within a large society for a specific purpose vs trying change a large one such as ours.

Yes getting exiled can happen because of a bullshit reason the leader doesn't like me. Yes the tribal justice might be flawed. So what? The costs to the evicted individual and tribe of a mistrial are minimal compared to the american justice system. Got snagged due to being framed? That time isn't time you're getting back and it will change you. For the worse.

Also the snark about running water? Got news for you. We're not going to mars. The fully gay space communism isn't going to happen. We're stuck here, america is in decline and resources to sustain technology is running out. We will eventually return to smaler societies.. don't ya worrry.
 

RussianParasite

Не ходи на выборы
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
It's easier to create a small group within a large society for a specific purpose vs trying change a large one such as ours.
So you mean we could be together with a circle of friends and family to interact with within the a larger society? That’s literally how things are right now. However, those 150 people on their own are incapable of building things like a computer. Current life requires the existence of a larger society.

The costs to the evicted individual and tribe of a mistrial are minimal compared to the american justice system.

Lol, yes being sent away forever from all of your friends and loved ones, never to see or speak to them again, is better than some jail time.

Also the snark about running water? Got news for you. We're not going to mars. The fully gay space communism isn't going to happen. We're stuck here, america is in decline and resources to sustain technology is running out. We will eventually return to smaler societies.. don't ya worrry.
I’m sorry my facts made you mad at the internet. I’d also like to inform you that gas doesn’t come from the gas pump and food doesn’t come from the grocery store.

America isn’t perfect but it isn’t bad either— go to a none western country and tell me it’s better. I don’t think we are going to Mars and I do think that Communism is awful. People have been raving about resources running out for centuries. Tell me, exactly which of these resources are we running low on? Your insight on a potential shortage could land me a fuck ton of money (no joke).

It is always the end of the world for doomposters.
 

Carlos Weston Chantor

Experienced For Barb's Pleasure
kiwifarms.net
TL;DR: Once you are in power; do you correct your policies according to the rioters, the mathematical measured outcomes, or your ideology? Or do you commit to not doing a thing, no matter how bad things get? Our politicians are using abstractions and models to decide what becomes horrible messes time and again. They will keep doing this.

The Law of God as expressed in Deuteronomy should be the only foundation of the legal system (non-Abrahamic traditional societies had very similar systems because it's all just Natural Law, but the Bible does a good job at codifying it nicely)

Removing godless laws and introducing the Law of God would introduce some immediate chaos because of how extremely "libertarian" the Law of God is compared to the slave-owning society we live in now (God allows Free Men to do anything they want, Man is like a God in his own family, free Men can travel the world as they want, buy and sell anything they want while paying in gold and silver, own any weapons they want, grow any plants they want on their land and so on. They are also free to put down any godless nerd who thinks he could come up with a better way to rule the society)

Every society ruled by godless nerds is doomed to failure because the only way to prosperity is the organic growth of mankind in accordance to the natural law. Pol Pot had a good idea when he wanted to kill all the nerds to be honest
 

DeadFish

I've may have made some mistakes...
kiwifarms.net
S).

It is always the end of the world for doomposters.
See this is why everything is so fucked up in america. When someone says things may not turn out rosy (or by design) then they're being "negative".

The unwillingness to embrace unpleasantness is why people are going cray cray.

I didn't pick my ideas cause they'll lead to utopia or are perfect
I choose them because they are the least imperfect, most likely to arise of own accord, easy to implement and as a counter to prog ideas. As you said life isn't fair. My ideas are the best the world will allow

It's easier for me to create a gang of 150 and try to drop out of society then try to force a nation of 300 million to bend to my will.

If all the regular posters here got 150 to 300 people for a micro society and managed to break away that would affect the cathedral in no small way. it's low risk too.
 
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Haim Arlosoroff

Archpolitician June Lapercal
kiwifarms.net
Also the snark about running water? Got news for you. We're not going to mars. The fully gay space communism isn't going to happen. We're stuck here, america is in decline and resources to sustain technology is running out. We will eventually return to smaler societies.. don't ya worrry.

The Law of God as expressed in Deuteronomy should be the only foundation of the legal system (non-Abrahamic traditional societies had very similar systems because it's all just Natural Law, but the Bible does a good job at codifying it nicely)

Removing godless laws and introducing the Law of God would introduce some immediate chaos because of how extremely "libertarian" the Law of God is compared to the slave-owning society we live in now (God allows Free Men to do anything they want, Man is like a God in his own family, free Men can travel the world as they want, buy and sell anything they want while paying in gold and silver, own any weapons they want, grow any plants they want on their land and so on. They are also free to put down any godless nerd who thinks he could come up with a better way to rule the society)

Every society ruled by godless nerds is doomed to failure because the only way to prosperity is the organic growth of mankind in accordance to the natural law. Pol Pot had a good idea when he wanted to kill all the nerds to be honest
Is the Codex Justinianus good enough, or are we allowing debt-slavery by default of not banning it? If there is one freak per hundred miles, the laws can just rely on legal gun ownership and let the honest man live his life. If there are one hundred freaks per one mile, the laws can never hope to regulate us all to the same page yet bureaucrats (and their utopian thinking) will try and fail a thousand times. The real problem is the population density, there are just too many people and no one in government will even admit to understanding the problem of raising GDP at the cost of GDP per capita. If there were 100 million people (randomly, not by some elite's picking) the world would be far more sustainable. The number of wind farms and level of automation just become so much easier to manage.
 

Syaoran Li

Oh, What a Night! Late December back in '63!
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
The Law of God as expressed in Deuteronomy should be the only foundation of the legal system (non-Abrahamic traditional societies had very similar systems because it's all just Natural Law, but the Bible does a good job at codifying it nicely)

Removing godless laws and introducing the Law of God would introduce some immediate chaos because of how extremely "libertarian" the Law of God is compared to the slave-owning society we live in now (God allows Free Men to do anything they want, Man is like a God in his own family, free Men can travel the world as they want, buy and sell anything they want while paying in gold and silver, own any weapons they want, grow any plants they want on their land and so on. They are also free to put down any godless nerd who thinks he could come up with a better way to rule the society)

Every society ruled by godless nerds is doomed to failure because the only way to prosperity is the organic growth of mankind in accordance to the natural law. Pol Pot had a good idea when he wanted to kill all the nerds to be honest

There are only two kinds people who want America to become a theocracy founded on the Law of God: Hillbillies and edgy LARP'er nerds.

Something tells me you're not a hillbilly and are probably just a self-hating nerd who's trying to A-Log his fellow geeks and probably has played way too much Crusader Kings II for his own good.

I'd be willing to bet ten dollars and some beers that you're probably a burned out ex-euphoric atheist who traded his fedora and trench coat for a capotain and a cassock.

Non-Abrahamic "traditional" societies did NOT have the same laws as the hook-nosed Abrahamic societies.

"Natural Law" is a crock of hook-nosed bullshit and trust me, people were actually more miserable under traditional morality, but their misery manifested differently.

And before you try, I'm not an atheist and I hate atheists even more than I hate trads.
 

Un Platano

big blatano xDDDD
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
You can thank this generation for ruining everything:
Australopithecus-afarensis-rendering-Artist.jpg

As soon as hominids developed an upright posture it's all been downhill from there. The average chimp eats more termites and rapes more macaques than the average man in modern western society, and is far happier because of it. Meanwhile mankind has made worthless stone tools and fire under the guise of "progress," that only serve to distract him from the downfall from the glories of the society of monkey. Every time you start a fire, le happy proboscis monkey cackles and rubs his hands knowing that the Homo are doing exactly what he wants.
 
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