If you can control thought, you can control your entire existence

RMQualtrough

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OP is an incel lol just have sex faggot
Love is the collapsing of two separate selves into one, to varying degrees. Physical attraction results in one type of display of love, closeness with a friend another.

Both parties have to be willing to essentially merge their beingness to some degree. As an AvPD sufferer, I am often unwilling to allow such closeness with any person unless drunk etc.
 

Bad Gateway

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Love is the collapsing of two separate selves into one, to varying degrees. Physical attraction results in one type of display of love, closeness with a friend another.

Both parties have to be willing to essentially merge their beingness to some degree. As an AvPD sufferer, I am often unwilling to allow such closeness with any person unless drunk etc.
hahahahaha what the fuck is this
 

RMQualtrough

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hahahahaha what the fuck is this
It is like uh, all of these things are a form of closeness. Intimacy. What does it mean to be close to someone? It's the opposite of being shut off, it's like opening up to a person, letting them in so to speak.

So you take two different people and they open up to each other and share elements of themselves or even feel so close as to feel to be one unit. Hence terms like "the other half" to describe your wife or whatever.

I legit wonder how much of reported intimacy issues are actually down to the person themselves actively not wanting to be close to anyone. So maybe incels on forums want the physical satisfaction of sex but don't want to connect with anyone. They basically want a living sex toy with zero intimacy. Which isn't possible. That would be a self imposed thing that'd be very difficult to ever even notice you are doing.
 

Bad Gateway

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It is like uh, all of these things are a form of closeness. Intimacy. What does it mean to be close to someone? It's the opposite of being shut off, it's like opening up to a person, letting them in so to speak.

So you take two different people and they open up to each other and share elements of themselves or even feel so close as to feel to be one unit. Hence terms like "the other half" to describe your wife or whatever.

I legit wonder how much of reported intimacy issues are actually down to the person themselves actively not wanting to be close to anyone. So maybe incels on forums want the physical satisfaction of sex but don't want to connect with anyone. They basically want a living sex toy with zero intimacy. Which isn't possible. That would be a self imposed thing that'd be very difficult to ever even notice you are doing.
That's a good point, it reminds me of something that just happened to me:
I went to McDonald's today and got a Filet-O-Fish combo with a bacon cheeseburger on the side. I was eating it in my vehicle in the parking lot and listening to an audiobook when I glanced up and saw the McDonald's worker I ordered outside having a cigarette.

She waved at me and I nodded and had to wait 7 minutes before she went back inside and I could eat in comfort again. I don't think that employees should be bothering or even trying to socialize with customers outside of the McDonald's restaurant or drive through, but that is another story.

I went to McDonald's for dinner tonight and got a McChicken combo with a bacon cheeseburger on the side. As I was driving to the second window the same girl was still working. She was acting somewhat obsequious and attempting small talk when she asked, 'why don't you come eat inside instead of in the parking lot where it is cold'.

That really bothered me for many reasons. First of all, I don't want my routine or actions to be tracked by a fast food employee. Secondly, she should not try to tell me how I should live my life. I do not want to eat inside because I find it less comfortable and would much rather be inside my vehicle listening to an audiobook and enjoying myself and my privacy.

Overall, I think it was very unprofessional to bring this up. I should have a clean slate with each drive through visit, not have to get the third degree because I committed some sort of faux pas. Which I don't think I did, because I often see people eating in fast food parking lots. How does she know I am not busy going to work or somewhere in a rush?

How do you feel about eating in your vehicle in the parking lot of a fast food restaurant versus eating inside the restaurant?
 

RMQualtrough

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That's a good point, it reminds me of something that just happened to me:
I went to McDonald's today and got a Filet-O-Fish combo with a bacon cheeseburger on the side. I was eating it in my vehicle in the parking lot and listening to an audiobook when I glanced up and saw the McDonald's worker I ordered outside having a cigarette.

She waved at me and I nodded and had to wait 7 minutes before she went back inside and I could eat in comfort again. I don't think that employees should be bothering or even trying to socialize with customers outside of the McDonald's restaurant or drive through, but that is another story.

I went to McDonald's for dinner tonight and got a McChicken combo with a bacon cheeseburger on the side. As I was driving to the second window the same girl was still working. She was acting somewhat obsequious and attempting small talk when she asked, 'why don't you come eat inside instead of in the parking lot where it is cold'.

That really bothered me for many reasons. First of all, I don't want my routine or actions to be tracked by a fast food employee. Secondly, she should not try to tell me how I should live my life. I do not want to eat inside because I find it less comfortable and would much rather be inside my vehicle listening to an audiobook and enjoying myself and my privacy.

Overall, I think it was very unprofessional to bring this up. I should have a clean slate with each drive through visit, not have to get the third degree because I committed some sort of faux pas. Which I don't think I did, because I often see people eating in fast food parking lots. How does she know I am not busy going to work or somewhere in a rush?

How do you feel about eating in your vehicle in the parking lot of a fast food restaurant versus eating inside the restaurant?
She just wants to sleep with you. That would make me very uncomfortable too. I like to eat at home, being in the restaurant is no problem for me but I wouldn't like to be "known" there and feel like whenever I go there I will have to interact with a specific person. I am comfortable when people are kept at a great distance. VERY few people are let in.

This makes it impossible for me to hook up with anyone or be in a relationship because I am imposing it on myself that I refuse to allow someone that close. I have to drink quite a bit or be on MDMA before I will allow someone in to where "non-incel activities" can take place lmao.
 

Bad Gateway

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You accept that you're a walking bag of flesh and realize it means you can choose to do what you want. Sometimes it is to marry someone, sometimes it is to have a string of flings, sometimes it is to do what you want. You are born onto this earth with a body of flesh you don't choose, but you can choose what to do with it. Even if biologically our purpose is to pass on our genes, why does that make us successful? Ceaser didn't pass on his genes to a son and yet his name is burned into our brains, our culture, and our history. His policies changed the Romans forever. Is he a complete failure for not spanking his monkey into a woman properly?

If he is, why go with biology's standards of success? Are you too afraid to set your own?

Biology for most people doesn't determine our success because even if our body wants us to do one thing, we still feel empty without pursuing other things. Ask any depressed person with kids, married or not. Set your sights on things you want and that will help you love yourself more as the more you do for yourself, the more you will like yourself. Maybe it's practicing a skill every day (from origami to math), maybe it is working towards a goal (cleaning your house so your brain has peace and bugs don't invade your shit), but find some small pursuits and go for them. Choose to work for yourself.

Another topic: why are all people out to use you? Are there people you like? If you don't, why don't you like them? Do you trust no one, period, or were you hurt and won't trust people for a while?

I hang out with my friends because we make each other laugh & talk about interesting things together. It is a mutual give and take. If one of us only laughed at the other, we wouldn't be friends. Friendship is a form of love: me and my friends take care of each other because it feels good to help each other. Our bodies are programmed to do such - humans in groups are more successful than those without one. While we don't have to choose that as our initiative, it is a good thing to keep in mind on why we are programmed to want to help each other and hopefully get stuff in return. Helping others usually feels good because of it. Hell, sometimes we do it and we don't care if we get something back. What's the point of rescuing a spider from a bathtub and putting it outside? Do we get something back?

But I digress. Because we choose to help each other, our body releases a chemical that says "you did good have some happiness". This extends to ourselves, "you ate food, here's some happiness." If we go straight with biology, we should continue to do these things for ourselves and others because of it.

If you don't feel happiness from helping others, why? If you don't feel happiness from helping ourselves survive and gain success, why? That's the point where you go to a psych.

TL; DR: we aren't our biology, but if we are, we can choose to do things for ourselves because it feels good and helps us become more successful. Taking care of yourself will help you love yourself better, and taking steps to be better will help make you more successful. We don't have to have kids for our names to live on, nor does it matter since who gives a fuck about your name living on when you can enjoy yourself in the now? And we don't have to love each other, but it does help us survive if we help each other. We don't have to and we can still survive and be successful: look at Boris Johnson tossing his long time friend under the bus.

If nothing brings you pleasure and being friends with people seems pointless, see a shrink for help. Even if you want to keep distrusting people, they can give you tips on loving yourself and pointing out how to be more successful.

Wait, you don't already have a personality? How? You have sarcasm down already, I think you have more than you want to admit.

People call each other on their birthday as a small day to say, "hey, glad you're here," and give you a bit of extra focus for being cool. Maybe you don't care about one specific day, that's fine, it is a little pointless, but do you enjoy friends talking to you at all? Friends talk to you because they like you. Maybe you don't do anything for them other than make them laugh or engage them in conversation, but that's fine, they do the same for you. Your personality influences how you interact with people. Even bitterness can turn into something engaging, but it doesn't keep people forever and you yourself don't enjoy feeling it (and taking care of yourself means helping to mitigate it and become more successful).

I'm curious: do you feel like most interactions you have with others are fake on their part or yours?
 

The Great Chandler

"Pickleless girls don't marry virgin boys"
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Joined
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That's a good point, it reminds me of something that just happened to me:
I went to McDonald's today and got a Filet-O-Fish combo with a bacon cheeseburger on the side. I was eating it in my vehicle in the parking lot and listening to an audiobook when I glanced up and saw the McDonald's worker I ordered outside having a cigarette.

She waved at me and I nodded and had to wait 7 minutes before she went back inside and I could eat in comfort again. I don't think that employees should be bothering or even trying to socialize with customers outside of the McDonald's restaurant or drive through, but that is another story.

I went to McDonald's for dinner tonight and got a McChicken combo with a bacon cheeseburger on the side. As I was driving to the second window the same girl was still working. She was acting somewhat obsequious and attempting small talk when she asked, 'why don't you come eat inside instead of in the parking lot where it is cold'.

That really bothered me for many reasons. First of all, I don't want my routine or actions to be tracked by a fast food employee. Secondly, she should not try to tell me how I should live my life. I do not want to eat inside because I find it less comfortable and would much rather be inside my vehicle listening to an audiobook and enjoying myself and my privacy.

Overall, I think it was very unprofessional to bring this up. I should have a clean slate with each drive through visit, not have to get the third degree because I committed some sort of faux pas. Which I don't think I did, because I often see people eating in fast food parking lots. How does she know I am not busy going to work or somewhere in a rush?

How do you feel about eating in your vehicle in the parking lot of a fast food restaurant versus eating inside the restaurant?
That's an odd and interesting perspective you got there. I just think she's trying to be nice, y'know? Could be that you're not used to this sort of interaction or at least expect people to be 'professional' I guess.

Regardless, we're all funny in a way!
 

Intimate Secretary

Audi, vide, tace, si vis vivere in pace.
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A quote that always stuck with me comes from one Alexis Carrel: "To progress again, man must remake himself. And he cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble and the sculptor. In order to uncover his true visage, he must shatter his own substance with heavy blows of his hammer."

I find perception to be tied closely with an allegorical interpretation of alchemy. "Lead into gold" might as well be the transmutation of one's self through growth, maturity, and experience to become a valuable member of society. Psychedelics have a lot of merit as well - if perception is primarily fueled by our senses, a deliberate and cautious warping of them can lead to great insight into one's identity and thought processes. Some people use them as entheogens, some people use them for fun, but everyone trips tits to escape normal perception.

A lot of the pithy shit like "if you look for the bad, it's all you'll see" does actually hold some merit, both because of our inherent negativity bias and because whatever we choose to focus on is what will stick. Yeah, suffering sucks, but without a barometer to measure your shitty days, how are you going to appreciate the good ones? The breadth of human experience is what keeps life fresh and keeps us from giving a blowjob to a gun barrel due to sheer boredom.

Then again I'm daydrinking and shitposting on the internet, so what do I know.
 

RMQualtrough

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Joined
Jan 2, 2021
I'm curious: do you feel like most interactions you have with others are fake on their part or yours?
I read your entire post but cut for brevity on the page. I am able to control the suffering associated with the thoughts and feelings to some extent via practice. I can recognize these things as temporary objects arising in awareness. They are still there, but I'm not sure the point is ever to make them go away but to be at peace with whatever arises.

On this question I feel I am putting on a show constantly. I don't have bad intentions for people or whatever, but I would say social interaction feels more like a maze I'm trying to correctly navigate than actually enjoying it. Unless I'm not sober as mentioned and then I can feel normal.

I recall being around 13 and being so open socially that I remember one time realizing that I wasn't even talking for myself if that makes sense. Like the words were coming out automatically in response without even thinking. While I was in my head just enjoying the moment. That was with a good friend so maybe that's why. But still, I'd say I now feel the opposite.
 

RMQualtrough

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Are you quoting the secret?
No. Thoughts won't so much change reality. You aren't outrunning a train no matter how much you think you can. But mentally a deluded person with schizophrenia or whatever may stick to such an idea no matter how many times they fail.

So the physical manifestation is not the same as the psychological belief. But to an extent it is true because in some aspects, if you think for example "I am a likeable person" then you are more likely to be open and put yourself out there, which in turn tends to make people more likeable.

What I mean moreso is that like with a crazy person, your entire life may be tinted by an insane belief that you are Jesus or something, regardless of the amount of evidence to the contrary. Like wearing orange goggles when skiing, the snow looks orange. The snow isn't really orange, the goggles aren't changing the reality of the snow, but the view of it is different for you. Not all possible thoughts are insane or damaging of course. Some are neutral or even positive.

Some mentally ill people will tint the world in the opposite way to reality e.g. "nobody could ever want to be my friend" etc based not on actual truth.
 

SideshowBob

A f00l
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This is what has always bothered me about eastern religion. If suffering is a self imposed illusion then its existence is an obstacle to be moved around. Christianity seemed to get to the meat of the problem by simply insisting that suffering is meaningful and must be imbued with the right value in order to be good. Ether way, these are conceptual frameworks around the phenomenon.
Judaism was a lot less metaphysical. Christianity became all about oVeRtHrOw the RuLiNg ClASs
 

Cool Dog

No longer a dog, still cool
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No. Thoughts won't so much change reality. You aren't outrunning a train no matter how much you think you can. But mentally a deluded person with schizophrenia or whatever may stick to such an idea no matter how many times they fail.

So the physical manifestation is not the same as the psychological belief. But to an extent it is true because in some aspects, if you think for example "I am a likeable person" then you are more likely to be open and put yourself out there, which in turn tends to make people more likeable.

What I mean moreso is that like with a crazy person, your entire life may be tinted by an insane belief that you are Jesus or something, regardless of the amount of evidence to the contrary. Like wearing orange goggles when skiing, the snow looks orange. The snow isn't really orange, the goggles aren't changing the reality of the snow, but the view of it is different for you. Not all possible thoughts are insane or damaging of course. Some are neutral or even positive.

Some mentally ill people will tint the world in the opposite way to reality e.g. "nobody could ever want to be my friend" etc based not on actual truth.
A lot of people never make real friends, like 20% of millenials dont have any close friends, and most people who think they are likable but arent are assholes or little bitches who never realize nobody wants them around
 

Bad Gateway

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I read your entire post but cut for brevity on the page. I am able to control the suffering associated with the thoughts and feelings to some extent via practice. I can recognize these things as temporary objects arising in awareness. They are still there, but I'm not sure the point is ever to make them go away but to be at peace with whatever arises.

On this question I feel I am putting on a show constantly. I don't have bad intentions for people or whatever, but I would say social interaction feels more like a maze I'm trying to correctly navigate than actually enjoying it. Unless I'm not sober as mentioned and then I can feel normal.

I recall being around 13 and being so open socially that I remember one time realizing that I wasn't even talking for myself if that makes sense. Like the words were coming out automatically in response without even thinking. While I was in my head just enjoying the moment. That was with a good friend so maybe that's why. But still, I'd say I now feel the opposite.
I'm a 23 year old incel. That is the truth. I've never had sex, never kissed a girl and never held hands with a girl. I've been trying to get laid by swiping right on every girl on Tinder, but I only match with the most repulsive fat chicks.

I even tried hiring an escort to lose my virginity, but the only escort in my area hasn't texted me back. I could have never imagined how hard it would be just to deposit my dick inside of some girl's coochie. The thing is that I'm not even ugly, I'm like an average guy.

6/10ths of the male population must be incel at this point. Women evolved to only want the best looking men and before social media, the amount of men the average female were exposed to were all the men in her general area, but now she's exposed to thousands of men and due to the evolved predisposition to go for the best looking men, only the top 20% of men get any success on dating apps and social media. That leaves the bottom 80% with almost nothing except for fat chicks and the deformed (I've literally only matched with fat chicks and chicks with facial deformities). I guarantee most of you guys are also incels too, but won't admit it. I bet you don't even try and say you're not an incel. Even if you did try, you wouldn't get no poon.

Life just fucking sucks. I wish I was having sex with the hottest women, I wish I was impregnating women, but instead I'm bored as shit trolling on the internet. Nothing is fun anymore. All I lust for is to be with a beautiful woman. Touch them, cuddle with them, kiss them, taste their bodies, taste their pussies, taste their armpits, and just smell them.

It's like only being able to look at images of the most delicious and satisfying food like steak, chicken, mashed potatoes, gravy, turkey, etc, but never getting the chance to ever eat it. You crave it, you constantly think about it, it makes your mouth water, and every fiber of your being craves it, but you will never have it and instead you're stuck eating bland unappetizing white rice. That's what it's like.

It's torture. It isn't fair.
 

RMQualtrough

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I'm a 23 year old incel. That is the truth. I've never had sex, never kissed a girl and never held hands with a girl. I've been trying to get laid by swiping right on every girl on Tinder, but I only match with the most repulsive fat chicks.

I even tried hiring an escort to lose my virginity, but the only escort in my area hasn't texted me back. I could have never imagined how hard it would be just to deposit my dick inside of some girl's coochie. The thing is that I'm not even ugly, I'm like an average guy.

6/10ths of the male population must be incel at this point. Women evolved to only want the best looking men and before social media, the amount of men the average female were exposed to were all the men in her general area, but now she's exposed to thousands of men and due to the evolved predisposition to go for the best looking men, only the top 20% of men get any success on dating apps and social media. That leaves the bottom 80% with almost nothing except for fat chicks and the deformed (I've literally only matched with fat chicks and chicks with facial deformities). I guarantee most of you guys are also incels too, but won't admit it. I bet you don't even try and say you're not an incel. Even if you did try, you wouldn't get no poon.

Life just fucking sucks. I wish I was having sex with the hottest women, I wish I was impregnating women, but instead I'm bored as shit trolling on the internet. Nothing is fun anymore. All I lust for is to be with a beautiful woman. Touch them, cuddle with them, kiss them, taste their bodies, taste their pussies, taste their armpits, and just smell them.

It's like only being able to look at images of the most delicious and satisfying food like steak, chicken, mashed potatoes, gravy, turkey, etc, but never getting the chance to ever eat it. You crave it, you constantly think about it, it makes your mouth water, and every fiber of your being craves it, but you will never have it and instead you're stuck eating bland unappetizing white rice. That's what it's like.

It's torture. It isn't fair.

Dating apps etc are rigged against normal men of course, consider they want to make money and then consider what that entails. You need to be going out in real life.

Also beautiful woman is like, if you are after some supermodel Instagram star (which we are subliminally told we must attain to feel worthwhile), and look like Gunther from Friends or something, who's just normal looking, then it's not so realistic.

One should expect others to expect from them the same things they desire. If you do not want an average person, which we are basically told is a life failure via TV etc, then you cannot expect the opposite... And possibly you are Avoidant and so don't really want to be with anyone anyway and just want the sexual satisfaction and, moreso the validation.

I also bolded armpits just because lol.