In defense of Guantanamo Bay -

[SigSauer]

Most critics say that Guantanamo Bay is a violation of due process under the fifth and fourteenth amendments even when these people are terrorists and are not US citizens, so the Constitution doesn’t even apply to these people. Prove me wrong. Come back to me when they’re torturing birthright US citizens and then (and only then) will I agree. Guantanamo is only for 9/11 conspirators, so it doesn’t apply to ISIS, which is why I disagreed with Trump’s foolish decision to move the New York truck attacker there, which in my opinion was a stupid move anyway. Also, Moussaoui wasn’t moved there anyway as he was already incarcerated three weeks prior to the attacks and was deemed “unfit” by his co-conspirators, and also because of Brinkema’s 2003 rulings to not push the death penalty due to the conflicts between the judiciary and national security branches of the US government at the time.

None of these people are Americans, in fact if they ever were, they’ve renounced their US citizenship card. Prove me wrong PROTIP: you can’t.

 

[Recoil]

"Never sell no crack where you rest at. I don't care if they want an ounce, tell 'em bounce."

If you're gonna torture people you don't do it in your own backyard. That's what south america and eastern europe is for. Nice thing about Guantanamo is that Cuba is 90 miles from the coast of florida. Much easier to torture people close to home. You can just fly 'em in, customs be damned.

 

[the autist of dojima]

Hi CIA, still being as incompetent as ever i see

 

[SigSauer]

"Never sell no crack where you rest at. I don't care if they want an ounce, tell 'em bounce."

If you're gonna torture people you don't do it in your own backyard. That's what south america and eastern europe is for.

I know torture is bad no matter what, but it’s the argument that it’s unconstitutional that I’m at disagreement with here. These people aren’t US citizens anyways, so I doubt the constitution even applies to them.

 

[Recoil]

I know torture is bad no matter what, but it’s the argument that it’s unconstitutional that I’m at disagreement with here. These people aren’t US citizens anyways, so I doubt the constitution even applies to them.

They're human beings. Fuck citizenship. If you're gonna go whole hog on the torture schtick, don't half ass it by trying to convince yourself it's any less of travesty because muh foreigners. You don't need to justify anything. Just accept how you really feel.

 

[millais]

"Never sell no crack where you rest at. I don't care if they want an ounce, tell 'em bounce."

If you're gonna torture people you don't do it in your own backyard. That's what south america and eastern europe is for. Nice thing about Guantanamo is that Cuba is 90 miles from the coast of florida. Much easier to torture people close to home. You can just fly 'em in, customs be damned.

I think they did the worst of the enhanced interrogation in overseas blacksites, places like Malaysia and Poland. Guantanamo Bay facility was just like the holding pen where they sent the enemy combatants after they had been wrung dry of useful intel.

 

[Recoil]

I think they did the worst of the enhanced interrogation in overseas blacksites, places like Malaysia and Poland. Guantanamo Bay facility was just like the holding pen where they sent the enemy combatants after they had been wrung dry of useful intel.

Not a response, but have you ever heard about the protocols for extraordinary rendition? They have these big suitcases that have arm and leg restraints in them. Agents drug the target and fly him as cargo in a fucking steamer trunk.

 

[millais]

You ever heard about the protocols for extraordinary rendition? They have these big suitcases that have arm and leg restraints in them. Agents drug the target and fly him as cargo in a fucking steamer trunk.

Huh, so the CIA guys fly commercial economy class? The "Baneposting" scene lied to us!

 

[SigSauer]

They're human beings. Fuck citizenship. If you're gonna go whole hog on the torture schtick, don't half ass it by trying to convince yourself it's any less of travesty because muh foreigners. You don't need to justify anything. Just accept how you really feel.

I’m not saying that, I’m saying it’s a faulty argument, since the Constitution applies only to US citizens last time I checked. There’s probably a million different, much better arguments (that aren’t appeals to emotion) that one could give anyways. Besides, the US government holds millions of US citizens without due process in America’s prisons already, do you want to talk about that? Gitmo is a red herring imo.

 

[millais]

I’m not saying that, I’m saying it’s a faulty argument, since the Constitution applies only to US citizens last time I checked. There’s probably a million different, much better arguments (that aren’t appeals to emotion) that one could give anyways. Besides, the US government holds millions of US citizens without due process in America’s prisons already, do you want to talk about that? Gitmo is a red herring imo.

The other faulty part of the argument is that the US was not obliged to observe the Geneva Convention protocols for POW treatment, since the US never recognized Al-Qaeda as a wartime belligerent, and the prisoners were not captured in uniform.

 

[Recoil]

I’m not saying that, I’m saying it’s a faulty argument, since the Constitution applies only to US citizens last time I checked. There’s probably a million different, much better arguments (that aren’t appeals to emotion) that one could give anyways. Besides, the US government holds millions of US citizens without due process in America’s prisons already, do you want to talk about that? Gitmo is a red herring imo.

Do you really think that the Constitution supersedes the question of whether or not to torture a human being?

 

[SigSauer]

The other faulty part of the argument is that the US was not obliged to observe the Geneva Convention protocols for POW treatment, since the US never recognized Al-Qaeda as a wartime belligerent, and the prisoners were not captured in uniform.

I’ve heard that too. It’s basically the commies saying that the 1903 Lease agreement was based on faulty grounds (ie under threat of force), thus making it a violation of international law. Some legal scholars even agree, saying that the lease was not valid or legally binding. I don’t know the semantics involved, I’m personally more concerned about the innocent Americans who are everyday falling through the cracks of the US justice system or mentally vulnerable people who are getting tortured at mental health clinics and homeless shelters that are designated “transitional” facilities, like at the (((Rotenberg Center))) in Canton, Massachusetts. I don’t give a fuck about some Al-Qaeda terrorists who are guilty as sin. I care about US citizens.

 

[Exorbital Columnations]

Can we define torture, here? I've never heard of much worse than restraint, prolonged interrogation, sleep deprivation and waterboarding. None of that is particularly pleasant but it's not having your teeth bashed in with a Kalashnikov, either.

 

[The Great Chandler]

Is it the place from MGSV Ground Zeroes?

 

[DK 699]

Is it the place from MGSV Ground Zeroes?

I don't think they say 'Gitmo', but it basically is the place if I remember correctly.

 

[Notgoodwithusernames]

Hi Skull face are you still making vagina bombs?

 

[The best and greatest]

I dunno if I can "Prove" you wrong but I think I can form a decent challenge to your position.

If you don't believe in natural/human rights that are inherent to being then you demote your rights into state-bound temporal privileges that come from the state that (In theory) exists to protect those rights rather than them being something intrinsic to you as a person.
In effect you say your rights do not exist without the legal text of the constitution to define them for you. I can't disagree with that logically but the inevitable consequence of that is those rights only exist as long as the text outlying them exists (Or so long as they are recognized by the legitimate reigning authority of the day.)

 

[ICametoLurk]

you guys hate guantanamo? the greatest superpower earth has ever seen needs to hide it on an outside island. this is unheard off. all of human history cruel punishment and torture was simply normal. They BOILED HUMANS ALIVE in uzbekistan in 2002.

 

[Lemmingwise]

I find it hard to decide what my position on Guantanamo Bay is. On the one hand I hate the United States. On the other, I'm all for indiscriminate torture.

 

[millais]

you guys hate guantanamo? the greatest superpower earth has ever seen needs to hide it on an outside island. this is unheard off. all of human history cruel punishment and torture was simply normal. They BOILED HUMANS ALIVE in uzbekistan in 2002.

The Boomerist vision of American exceptionalism and "moral compass of the world" nonsense really gets in the way of realpolitik and getting stuff done. Before Guantanamo Bay, they used to chimp out a lot about that School of the Americas where USA trains all the Latin American countries' secret police and death squads in how to torture suspects and political prisoners.