Insane Parents of "Transgender" Kids - Parents who push a transgender identity on their children

Pencilvester

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
resul
Are you trying to imply that a study of an unknown number of monkeys (with completely unknown context) that found that baby boy monkeys looked at toy balls slightly more often than they looked at toy dolls isn't a definitive masterwork that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that human gender roles are entirely innate? How could you possibly try to make fun of a study that so profoundly proves the inborn nature of gender roles by stating that baby monkeys with more "masculine" finger spacing tended to play with trucks more than baby dolls? I mean, that seems pretty damning to me, I'll say!
Your argument is that social pressure is a powerful influence on gendered behavior, so that behavior persisting even among groups who cannot possibly know about those stereotypes (literal monkeys) is strong evidence that social pressure is not the causal factor. I pointed it out as a test case that falsifies your explanation, the real reason I believe gender roles are largely innate is because it's what most normal people believe. As you say:
But they are pressed upon children from literally all of society. Parents, grandparents, aunts/uncles, babysitters, daycare providers, other children, television shows, Disney movies, literally any kind of movie, children's books, etc.
When "literally all of society" believes something, I think it's probably true.

And about the masculine finger spacing -- did you not know digit-ratios are a giveaway for trannies? Admittedly a tranny's hand typically has more obvious clues, but I thought it was common knowledge that testosterone had a big influence on the fingers.

Was there ever a follow-up to the Pasternacki paper? I'm curious if those patterns persisted into adulthood.
Here are her PubMed results, I don't see a follow-up. Congenital adrenal hyperplasia is an interesting topic; for example there was a bioethics case over whether it was it ethical to give mothers of girls with CAH a steroid to reduce the odds of the daughter becoming a lesbian. (Dreger, 2010)

What comes next? They let a horde of monkeys roam free in a house
That's a fantastic idea for a reality show
 

Sourceress

chaotic neutral
kiwifarms.net
Your argument is that social pressure is a powerful influence on gendered behavior, so that behavior persisting even among groups who cannot possibly know about those stereotypes (literal monkeys) is strong evidence that social pressure is not the causal factor. I pointed it out as a test case that falsifies your explanation, the real reason I believe gender roles are largely innate is because it's what most normal people believe.
The study you cited is absolute hogwash, though. As I tried to (jokingly) point out, your study contains no context, doesn't discuss the behavior of the female monkeys at all, and makes bizarre and erroneous conclusions without any evidence or support to bolster them. I'm supposed to believe that gender roles are innate because... some boy monkeys with longer middle fingers liked to play with trucks a little bit more than the boy monkeys with shorter middle fingers? This is the measure by which you go, "Ah yes, how rational, truly this shows that all male mammals will always choose trucks as befits their innate, inborn gender role"?

I suppose you believe that phrenology is a legitimate scientific field as well. I'm sure you could dig up a serial killer with a few funky bumps on his skull to "prove" that it's all quite legitimate.

Anyway, you show yourself with that last statement. You believe gender roles are innate because... it's what you've been told. You're not willing to think critically on the issue, and will accept anything as long as it supports your presumption, even if it is glaringly flawed. Perhaps you should try to step outside of your box a bit and consider further possibilities.

By the by, if gender roles were really innate, perhaps society wouldn't have to shove them down our throats so hard. But I suppose you actually believe that the men in charge of those old Disney princess movies were just really, really in tune with women's true natures and knew far better than any mere woman what they're like, hence their stunningly accurate depiction of the gender roles that all women are really and truly born with.

I really wonder what you're even doing in this thread. Your views line up directly with those of pediatric transition advocates who believe that children's "innate" "inborn" gender roles determine whether they are "really" a boy or a girl.
 

UnsufficentBoobage

Atleast things I wanna fuck are 3D
kiwifarms.net
I love how in any such talk feminists always rant on how women aren't naturally nurturing and accomodating. No. It's just you. Your raging narcissist ass that gives less than a single shit about anything that doesn't benefit her directly.
I am an ugly bitch with a load of hormonal issues who gets mistaken for a guy like 90% of the time. My mom, as I mentioned, tried to parent me in a "neutral" way. And yet, I love babies, I try to be helpfull when I can (even to randos), I have certain stereotypical girly behaviors as well...

I won't argue that idiot parents who bother their kids with stereotypes exist...but, guess what: most of that behavior was enforced and continues to be enforced by women. A lot of men don't look after their kids nowadays cause of "all men are pedos" assumptions. If we got rid of those stereotypes, somehow, then the babies, who'll get co-parented and therefore exposed to diffirent interest vectors, would have a free choice.
 

LateNightMuffin

kiwifarms.net
When "literally all of society" believes something, I think it's probably true.
Like when people all believed in the divine right of kings? Or like when all of a Muslim society believes in Islam, or all of a Christian society believes in Christianity? Or when everyone thought the earth was the center of the universe? Or like when the Aztecs believed that the tears of children in the process of being sacrificed brought the rain?

Everyone believing something that isn't true doesn't make it true. For better or worse, reality is not determined by belief.
 

BadTakeCrucifier

They should have never gave you niggas Twitter
kiwifarms.net
I love how in any such talk feminists always rant on how women aren't naturally nurturing and accomodating. No. It's just you. Your raging narcissist ass that gives less than a single shit about anything that doesn't benefit her directly.
I am an ugly bitch with a load of hormonal issues who gets mistaken for a guy like 90% of the time. My mom, as I mentioned, tried to parent me in a "neutral" way. And yet, I love babies, I try to be helpfull when I can (even to randos), I have certain stereotypical girly behaviors as well...

I won't argue that idiot parents who bother their kids with stereotypes exist...but, guess what: most of that behavior was enforced and continues to be enforced by women. A lot of men don't look after their kids nowadays cause of "all men are pedos" assumptions. If we got rid of those stereotypes, somehow, then the babies, who'll get co-parented and therefore exposed to diffirent interest vectors, would have a free choice.
This issue relevancy is also based on whether or not you have hyper sexist or hyper conservative parents or whatever. I actually see a LOT of trans or gay people come specifically from a hyper conservative household where a role was shoved on them and their parents treated them like drones, because that's all they understood. (The church hivemind does that...) My parents were pretty normal I guess, not idiots or religious nutjobs or anything.

I learned science and biology at a young enough age that I knew exactly where babies came from and what pregnancy was. I never felt confused about biological sex.
Gender roles, though? When I was a kid, I didn't get it. I didn't at all see where they came from or why men and women had to be different. I didn't think of myself through some female lens and my parents never forced a stereotype on me, they just let me be a kid. If I wanted boy toys, I got them, if I wanted girl stuff, I got it.

As an adult, however, after hormones kicked in from puberty and several years living in society, I completely get where gender stereotypes come from. Hormones make men and women different. I feel different than when I was a kid. That's just the way it is. Adult responsibilities like work and marriage are different for men and women, it all comes down to factoring in pregnancy. Men don't get pregnant, women do. That changes a LOT and it's actually a serious issue when it comes to planning your future if you get married. Pregnancy can be debilitating, plus you have to care for the baby and breastfeed. A lot of gender roles stem from women having to stay home because they get pregnant. End of.

Now we should talk about how this relates to the trans cult, not feminism and sexism please. Unless we're talking about feminism and trans people.

INB4 SORCERESS NEGVOTES ME LOL
 

Pencilvester

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
By the by, if gender roles were really innate, perhaps society wouldn't have to shove them down our throats so hard. But I suppose you actually believe that the men in charge of those old Disney princess movies were just really, really in tune with women's true natures and knew far better than any mere woman what they're like, hence their stunningly accurate depiction of the gender roles that all women are really and truly born with.
Here in 2020 America Disney makes sure that there are plenty of Strong Women in their tentpole Stars Wars and Marvel movies. Meanwhile Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey, two of the least feminist books ever written, were huge successes that came out of nowhere. If I underestimate the strength of social pressures to conform it's because I live in the sort of liberal area where the parents make a big effort to raise their child without gender roles and then get really upset when their little boy asks for a toy gun for Christmas.

I really wonder what you're even doing in this thread. Your views line up directly with those of pediatric transition advocates who believe that children's "innate" "inborn" gender roles determine whether they are "really" a boy or a girl.
Obviously there are children who naturally defy gender roles and they should be free to be themselves, but they are the exception and even in a hypothetical society with zero cisheteronormative pressures they would remain the exception.

I originally came into the thread to say that Parent of Trans Kid has a lot of the same attractions as Parent of Sick Kid (Doctors! Fundraisers! Instagram!) but the Social Justice connection intensifies the attractions AND allows them to smear anyone who questions them as bigots. I think we're in the middle of a Munchausen's by Transgender boom, and it doesn't look like it's going to get better any time soon. So given all that I was curious if anyone had advice on placing a prop bet on there being a boom in serial killers in the near future.
 

Deepland Bystander

kiwifarms.net
The problems with transgenderism isn't whether gender roles are inborn or not (I believe there are both societal pressure and some biological components) but that it is a very social phenomena that purported itself as 'a scientific truth' in Western world (As much as phrenology was a science). A 'social identity' that is seen as biologically essential and has dogmatic requirement of a certain medical treatment that may not be as necessary as claimed.

And that the presence of gender nonconformity does not necessarily lead to being "trans" in modern sense. The idea of innate gender identity and transgender people being identical to opposite sex is only one manifestation. I came from a country with a sky-high rate of troonism although they can't legally change gender, however most of them see themselves as actually male (if MtF) that takes the feminine social role and more of a third gender than being a truly women, a social identity that blurs a lot with femme gay men. In fact a number of them oppose legal gender marker changes in ID cards because it doesn't reflect "reality".

Recently, my friend (from UK) went to my country and checked tinder and was shocked how they put themselves in female category, look very passing and 'pretty', in his word. Though they mention that they're not real women in profiles. This is like the opposite of hulking troons who force 'IT'S A MAAM' to everyone we're seeing here.

This is purely cultural differences in how different society dealt with gender-nonconformity. A lot of mentall illnesses that are voted in the DSM book 'to be legitimate diagnosis' show different presentation and frequency across cultures. Which means these categories are not universal. It's not that the distressful feeling isn't real, or "gender dysphoria" isn't real, people just contextualise it differently. Knowing that, supposing that questionable paper of monkey playing with gendered toys were legitimate. We couldn't really define what will be trans monkeys because trans is a cultural bound concept made dogmatic through the language of faux-science.

I don't mind people doing anything to their body, but the rationalisation behind transitioning is a very questionable with a very misleading expectation.
 
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UnsufficentBoobage

Atleast things I wanna fuck are 3D
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I came from a country with a sky-high rate of troonism although they can't legally change gender, however most of them see themselves as actually male (if MtF) that takes the feminine social role and more of a third gender than being a truly women, a social identity that blurs a lot with femme gay men.
Wanna bet this won't happen if the hang-ups about male self-expression didn't exist?
 

Corn Flakes

Part of a nutritionally balanced breakfast!
kiwifarms.net
Wanna bet this won't happen if the hang-ups about male self-expression didn't exist?
I remember a few years ago how social justice preachers tried to convince cisgender men that "the Patriarchy hurts men too!" through toxic gender roles, social expectations and curbing male self-expression. I didn't fully agree with it, but they had a couple good points.

Some people still talk about it but in general it feels like that line of argumentation fell by the wayside as men became The Enemy and you either troon out or enby up in order to escape it and avoid trouble.

(Also, where is your avatar from? The character there looks familiar but I can't place it.)
 

UnsufficentBoobage

Atleast things I wanna fuck are 3D
kiwifarms.net
Some people still talk about it but in general it feels like that line of argumentation fell by the wayside as men became The Enemy and you either troon out or enby up in order to escape it and avoid trouble.
Yup. Which is bad - the true awareness was probably this close!

(Also, where is your avatar from? The character there looks familiar but I can't place it.)
Liveman.
 
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BadTakeCrucifier

They should have never gave you niggas Twitter
kiwifarms.net
although they can't legally change gender, however most of them see themselves as actually male (if MtF) that takes the feminine social role and more of a third gender than being a truly women, a social identity that blurs a lot with femme gay men. In fact a number of them oppose legal gender marker changes in ID cards because it doesn't reflect "reality".

Recently, my friend (from UK) went to my country and checked tinder and was shocked how they put themselves in female category, look very passing and 'pretty', in his word. Though they mention that they're not real women in profiles. This is like the opposite of hulking troons who force 'IT'S A MAAM' to everyone we're seeing here.
Wanna bet this won't happen if the hang-ups about male self-expression didn't exist?
I remember a few years ago how social justice preachers tried to convince cisgender men that "the Patriarchy hurts men too!" through toxic gender roles, social expectations and curbing male self-expression.
if a person is simply gender-non-conforming, I think the pressure these days to transition is extremely high, particularly in communities who want to honestly "help" people in finding themselves. i.e. "you're not a tomboy/you're not an effeminate man--you're totally trans! Now get on drugs for the rest of your life!" There are many risks that come with medical transition. And as many who transitioned medically/surgically as teens/children found out, if you change your mind, you really can't go back on it. Essential parts of your body are changed forever.

I've noticed that there are are lot of crossdressers and people who identify with the fashion/mannerisms of the opposite sex,without actually wanting to declare themselves transgender. I've met people who are straight as a rod and are "cisgender," but they like to be androgynous (Remember when people like David Bowie or La Roux were considered interesting non-conformists/androgynous, but not labeled trans...) A lot of people actually are not hardcore "cisgender" if you will. Many women who dress like men, men who like to wear dresses, and yet still straight. The point being: Why does it seem like people (And by extension--CHILDREN) are not allowed to adopt opposite sex fashions without having it shoved down their throats that they MUST transition? They MUST get surgery and take pills? Which ultimately leave them sterile and can lead to unintended consequences.

As for people who are genuinely trans and transitioning: This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think also that the concept of third gender is actually a very useful one. I don't mean this weird "over 9000 genders exist" trend, where they are literally describing some personality trait as a "gender" either. But more that, MTF and FTM would make more sense being in a sexual class of their own, instead of, for example, this "No, they're TOTALLY a woman!!1!" vs "Biology says they're still male!!!1" argument that happens every fucking day now. Transmen and transwomen seem like a class of their own to me, and I think that's fine. Why does society seem hellbent on saying there are only genders when it comes to trans, but over 9000 genders when it comes to being androgynous?
 
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Smaug's Smokey Hole

no corona
kiwifarms.net
if a person is simply gender-non-conforming, I think the pressure these days to transition is extremely high, particularly in communities who want to honestly "help" people in finding themselves. i.e. "you're not a tomboy/you're not an effeminate man--you're totally trans! Now get on drugs for the rest of your life!"
Before all of this and not even that long ago, a similar type of pressure, but way less intense than the trans insanity, was put on effeminate men that were straight as an arrow. People, with good intentions, wanted them to come out of the closet and tried to pair them up with gay men. Before that, people with good intentions wanted naturally skinny teenage girls to admit to their eating disorder and seek help. Relative strangers like teachers hounding a girl because they find her natural body type unnatural is not good for girls that are 13-15 years old.

With the trans stuff there are clueless people with good intentions but what makes it truly insidious are the people with weird or self-serving intentions and the consequences of the "cure". I knew one of the dudes that got pressured into at least trying sucking a dick and he said it was absolutely not for him, he knew that but the pressure from those around him made him doubt himself, and to be fair, within 30 seconds of meeting him for the first time I was certain that he was gay. I've also known the girls that upped their calorie intake significantly and were still skinny, that's just how their metabolism worked at that age and it sorted itself out later in life. None of that was good for them but the the hit they took mentally from trying the 'cure' doesn't hold a candle to the lasting effects of puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones and mastectomies.

When they say that peer pressure can't make a teenager buy into being trans I always think about how good intentions successfully pushed an adult straight man to suck a dick because he might be secretly gay.
 

AnOminous

Really?
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
When they say that peer pressure can't make a teenager buy into being trans I always think about how good intentions successfully pushed an adult straight man to suck a dick because he might be secretly gay.
Always makes me think of this, from the quaint time when shit like this was just a joke, not something that actually happened:

 

Corn Flakes

Part of a nutritionally balanced breakfast!
kiwifarms.net
if a person is simply gender-non-conforming, I think the pressure these days to transition is extremely high, particularly in communities who want to honestly "help" people in finding themselves. i.e. "you're not a tomboy/you're not an effeminate man--you're totally trans! Now get on drugs for the rest of your life!" There are many risks that come with medical transition. And as many who transitioned medically/surgically as teens/children found out, if you change your mind, you really can't go back on it. Essential parts of your body are changed forever.

I've noticed that there are are lot of crossdressers and people who identify with the fashion/mannerisms of the opposite sex,without actually wanting to declare themselves transgender. I've met people who are straight as a rod and are "cisgender," but they like to be androgynous (Remember when people like David Bowie or La Roux were considered interesting non-conformists/androgynous, but not labeled trans...) A lot of people actually are not hardcore "cisgender" if you will. Many women who dress like men, men who like to wear dresses, and yet still straight. The point being: Why does it seem like people (And by extension--CHILDREN) are not allowed to adopt opposite sex fashions without having it shoved down their throats that they MUST transition? They MUST get surgery and take pills? Which ultimately leave them sterile and can lead to unintended consequences.
You will find that the standard, garden-variety SJW and the standard troon (and by extension munchie parent trooning out their kids) are very strange bedfellows indeed.

SJWs keep preaching about how gender roles are the devil and how men and women are exactly the same and that there are no differences between sexes and that everything is a social construct. But at the same time, they stand with troons (and munchie parents), who enforce gender roles and stereotypes to a literal fetishistic degree. You never see a "transgender" boy simply being referred to as a girl and having a mix of feminine and masculine interests like a lot of kids being given a gender-neutral upbringing. It's always mommy's little princess, wearing a frilly dress and buried under layers and layers of makeup the kid would never even know the name of if his mother hadn't hammered it into his head.

Also, where are the girls in this? Why is that 90% of the little kids getting trooned out and put on hormone blockers by their mothers for asspats and attention are boys, while girls start trooning out on their own when they start reaching their teens instead?
 

BadTakeCrucifier

They should have never gave you niggas Twitter
kiwifarms.net
With the trans stuff there are clueless people with good intentions but what makes it truly insidious are the people with weird or self-serving intentions and the consequences of the "cure". I knew one of the dudes that got pressured into at least trying sucking a dick and he said it was absolutely not for him, he knew that but the pressure from those around him made him doubt himself
>sucked dick even though he didn't want to
>actually straight


Your friend got date-raped.

"It was absolutely not """"for him""""" yeah it sure fucking wasn't.
 

UnsufficentBoobage

Atleast things I wanna fuck are 3D
kiwifarms.net
Many women who dress like men, men who like to wear dresses, and yet still straight
Before all of this and not even that long ago, a similar type of pressure, but way less intense than the trans insanity, was put on effeminate men that were straight as an arrow. People, with good intentions, wanted them to come out of the closet and tried to pair them up with gay men. Before that, people with good intentions wanted naturally skinny teenage girls to admit to their eating disorder and seek help. Relative strangers like teachers hounding a girl because they find her natural body type unnatural is not good for girls that are 13-15 years old.

With the trans stuff there are clueless people with good intentions but what makes it truly insidious are the people with weird or self-serving intentions and the consequences of the "cure". I knew one of the dudes that got pressured into at least trying sucking a dick and he said it was absolutely not for him, he knew that but the pressure from those around him made him doubt himself, and to be fair, within 30 seconds of meeting him for the first time I was certain that he was gay.
SJWs keep preaching about how gender roles are the devil and how men and women are exactly the same and that there are no differences between sexes and that everything is a social construct. But at the same time, they stand with troons (and munchie parents), who enforce gender roles and stereotypes to a literal fetishistic degree
>sucked dick even though he didn't want to
>actually straight


Your friend got date-raped.

"It was absolutely not """"for him""""" yeah it sure fucking wasn't.
That is where the guys I could have dated end.
Why can't people, Iunno, decide that, irregardless of sex, some people prefer to be "practical", and some to be "elegant", while, not even that much time ago, it was close to being normalised?
But then again, modern society makes everything into identity...you can't ever prefer anything, you must BE the whole package. Hence people coming up with smaller, original "packages" to describe themselves, which is awfull.