Since the IRA has been brought up recently, thought I might as well start a thread for people who have questions or want to know more.
Irish Republicanism and the IRA. -
- Thread starter ulsterscotsman
- Start date
I have a friend in norn iron, seems like the loyalists are a bunch of thugs to me. Some of the hitters on the IRA side too. Reminds me more of the mob wars we had here in the 70s and 80s. You know, hit for hit.
Didn't the IRA give warnings ahead of time and had a bunch of signs telling British troops that there was a sniper in the area?
If that's the case, say what you want about them but they at least try to be civilized.
If that's the case, say what you want about them but they at least try to be civilized.
I side with the nationalists in NI as a matter of personal loyalty to dear childhood friends who helped my own interests be furthered. That said, any sane person would prefer a peaceful referendum. Terrorism is almost never justifiable.
Haha that sounds shady as shit.. I love it.
They were terrorists, but both their demands and their actual conduct were something that could actually be resolved rationally, and eventually were. It is not an absolutely insane demand that people living on the land where they have lived for centuries should have some autonomy over their own land.
Part of being able to "negotiate with terrorists," though, involves actually having people you can talk to who will stop whatever they're doing if you reach an agreement. "Cease to exist" isn't a demand anyone can submit to. You just have to kill fuckers when that's all that will make them happy.
It's an understandable grievance. Ireland belongs to the Irish, and a foreign power came in to strip the land from its rightful owners.
Call them terrorists all you like, but if some rando broke into your house and decided he'd just live there, you'd probably kick his ass too.
It's not some terrorist group deciding taking over, it's a group of people trying to regain what's theirs by right to begin with.
The British were a blight on the land, and divided the nation. It's not radicalism to think maybe they should fuck off.
Call them terrorists all you like, but if some rando broke into your house and decided he'd just live there, you'd probably kick his ass too.
It's not some terrorist group deciding taking over, it's a group of people trying to regain what's theirs by right to begin with.
The British were a blight on the land, and divided the nation. It's not radicalism to think maybe they should fuck off.
The trick of it is, it wasn't just randos. It's the same people that lived there just as long. It's Catholics vs prods. Like the Falls was practically one side of the street vs the other.
Telephone Warnings were normally given when it came to bombings, however if the bomb was specifically targeting the British Army, Police, Loyalist or Government targets the no warning would be given.
While there may have been some sectarian individuals in the IRA, The IRA itself was not a sectarian organization and had Protestant members.
Loyalists on the other hand were very sectarian.
While the IRA was not a sectarian organization, However when it came to extreme provocation from Loyalists, Individual members did commit horrible atrocities without sanction from the Army Council and often using a false cover name like "Republican Action Force", "South Armagh Republican Action Force" and "Catholic Reaction Force".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsmill_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darkley_killings
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Reaction_Force
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Armagh_Republican_Action_Force
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As a man of direct Irish descent and someone with deep-seated Constitutional sensibilities I'm almost always on the side of people who prefer self-determination over rule under an Empire's thumb. Especially since British treatment of the Gaels is historically one of the most oppressive power relationships in human history. I think the IRA's goal is totally sympathetic.
That said they're still terrorists who kill children. Inadvertently or not. I still give them something of a pass though because unlike ISIS or al-Qaeda they'll more or less stop when they get their way. I have a sinking feeling the Minutemen probably would've acted very similarly if they were resisting the British now instead of the 18th century. I dunno man, it's tough.
The IRA never ever intentionally killed children, their deaths were the result of mistakes and gross incompetence.
However I don't believe there is a single active army in this world today that has not been responsible for killing Kids Inadvertently or not.
IRA did absolutely nothing wrong.
They worked somewhat closely with, and were seen as an example by, anti-colonial movements elsewhere in the world. There were a few rebellions in India that were directly inspired by the Easter Uprising and Annie Besant's Home Rule League set the stage for the independence movement.
Black and Tans deserved worse.
feedtheoctopus
kiwifarms.net
I've got ancestors who were in the original IRA during the war of independence. Rational or not, there's a part of me that has more than a little bit of sympathy for republicanism for that fact alone. I also can't help but respect the shit out of a guy like Bobby Sands who was willing to starve himself to death for his convictions.
By the time the troubles really kicked off though whatever was noble in the entire issue had dissipated. It became a mindless cycle of tit for tat violence, often religious/sectarian in nature, and by the end of the whole thing in the 90's had basically turned solely into groups of kneecapping thugs without any actual purpose. The most accurate film about the whole period I ever saw was Elephant. Reason? It depicts the point at which politics ceases to matter. It's just murders without context. Sooner or later any political movement based on nationalism just morphs into that shit.
More broadly, if you reach the point where you're bombing pubs and shit you need to seriously sit back and reflect on whether you're the good guy or the bad guy in this situation
By the time the troubles really kicked off though whatever was noble in the entire issue had dissipated. It became a mindless cycle of tit for tat violence, often religious/sectarian in nature, and by the end of the whole thing in the 90's had basically turned solely into groups of kneecapping thugs without any actual purpose. The most accurate film about the whole period I ever saw was Elephant. Reason? It depicts the point at which politics ceases to matter. It's just murders without context. Sooner or later any political movement based on nationalism just morphs into that shit.
More broadly, if you reach the point where you're bombing pubs and shit you need to seriously sit back and reflect on whether you're the good guy or the bad guy in this situation
That's the tricky thing, we're kinda used to supporting partisan resistance, at least philosophically. If we in the US were to suddenly be under sustained occupation, you bet your ass we'd be sniping and using IEDs.
They just want Ireland to not be ruled by England, yes? I admit that though I'm Irish and heard lots of talk around the table during my childhood I don't have much education on it beyond "Irish want freedom" and "fuck the Brits"...
my family was Catholic but American, I have no doubt some of the older, now-passed generation were supporters of the IRA. Yet I know very little about it.
watching this thread in hopes of many informational posts.
my family was Catholic but American, I have no doubt some of the older, now-passed generation were supporters of the IRA. Yet I know very little about it.
watching this thread in hopes of many informational posts.
S
SP 199
Guest
kiwifarms.net
I'm American, my grandparents were Irish as well as that whole side of the family. So I suppose I should say I was raised by Irish people? Over here we get disconnected from our roots, you know.
isn't there a photo of one of their car bombs before it went off? of people standing next to it?
That happened in Omagh, The bomb was meant to go off outside the courthouse when the area had be evacuated after a phone warning, however they couldn't find anywhere near the courthouse to park it so they had to leave it up the street.
Unfortunately the first phone call mistakenly said it was near the courthouse, a second call came in after that to tell them the correct area where the bomb was but those calls were unfortunately ignored.
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