Is "body positivity" contributing to the trans trend? -

[Sperghetti]

These two posts were in the Jazz Jennings thread, which I didn't want to derail with my Deep Thoughts™.

I agree with you. It goes even beyond toddler age, and into puberty especially.

Bit of a power level here, but I fucking hated puberty. I hated the changes that were happening to my body. I felt fat and ugly. I didn't want hips, I didn't want thigh fat, I didn't want body odor, I didn't want a period, I didn't want boobs. I fucking HATED wearing a bra, it felt so restrictive and awful, and I wanted to go back to being a skinny, nondescript kid, running around in just a t-shirt. I even flirted with thoughts like "I wish I was a boy so I didn't have to wear a bra." Hating bras and women's clothing is also common in autistic women because of the way they itch, squeeze, pinch, and scratch. I wore men's shirts for a period of time, but didn't really want to be a man. I was at least intelligent enough to understand that my problem was not with being female, but that I didn't like the human experience in general. Having a wiener wouldn't have improved anything.

Turns out, the way I felt in puberty was really goddamned common. Many women I meet felt the same way. You get over it. Most tomboy women embrace femininity later in life. At least, you do if you don't have insane fucking parents. Thank goodness this was far before this trans-debacle, and my mother would have thumped me good and shamed the hell out of me if I ever said I was a "man in a woman's body."

RIP to the uncomfortable, weird, and autistic kids with weak-ass parents growing up now, who are too stupid to conclude that their sex isn't the issue they are having, and then have to deal with a disfigured body for the rest of their life as a result. Jaron might have been a weird fucking kid, but he didn't deserve to be transed for having quirks.

You absolutely are not alone. It's mind-blowing to see so many young women on social media transitioning, and how many of them believe what their going through is something special and unique and indicative of "dysphoria" rather than just the fact that female puberty sucks.
And shit, man, even I didn't end up liking the color pink until I was an adult just because it got shoved on me so much as a kid.

These got me thinking… do you guys think all the “love your body” and “don’t be ashamed” shit that gets pushed on teenagers and young women these days is actually making this worse?

I don’t know about you guys, but one of the major contributing factors of my discomfort at that age was the sheer amount of sources that wanted to talk at you about puberty and sex. The people who did this believed they were being nothing but helpful and educational since it’s what they wished others would have done for them as a teenager, but I didn’t want that so to me, it just felt extremely uncomfortable and almost borderline violating. (Namely because you were a captive audience to this shit about 99% of the time.)

I say that because lot of the people who are drawn to that “body positive” mentality seem to have that same motivation — they believe they’re being helpful because it’s what they want somebody to tell them, so they assume everyone else must be the same way. They fully believe that people only feel uncomfortable with their bodies because somebody else told them to feel that way, and they're very open with stating this "fact".

But that isn't the case at all. Even just from reading personal anecdotes here at the Farms, it seems like there’s a great many people who felt uncomfortable at puberty and even for years after, because puberty is just an inherently uncomfortable and awkward time.

What I’m getting at is that it’s already bad enough to be feeling miserable because of some bodily thing you have no control over, but then to be constantly bombarded with well-meaning-but-tone-deaf messages that you should enjoy it and be proud of it and show yourself off and talk openly about your bodily functions… well, it's no wonder that some of these teenagers end up feeling like something's wrong with them for being uncomfortable in the first place.

I used to be surprised that there wasn't more animosity between the body-positive types and the trans community (like there is between the trans community and feminists) because their ideals seem completely opposed: Being openly proud of your body completely as-is versus using medication and surgery to change your body so you like it more. But after thinking about it, it's a very quick step from "everyone should love their body" to "if you don't love your body, you need to change it into something you DO love".

Anyway, thoughts?

 

[EnemyStand]

Yeah, that write up seems pretty on point. Powerleveling a little, so bear with me, but I'm a fat fuck. I wear it better than most, but it's obvious I'm pretty overweight. I used to be a skinny bitch until I hit puberty, and yeah, I have some problems with body image. But I didn't get coddled by my family. Still don't. And I take responsibility for what I did to myself. I overeat and have issues with staying motivated to exercise.

My point, is that compared to the body positive crowd I'm...well, not happier but it weighs on my mind a little less because I accept it's my. Fucking. Fault. So there's no pride or anything, I'm just another fat geek and I don't tell people to love me for it. Now, the body positive people don't take responsibility, but still want the asspats that come with being fit and pretty. So they demand them. Call you fatphobic and a Nazi and whatever else is the insult du jour and try to delude themselves I should want to fuck them as they cram a whole pizza down their throat. In a way, a lot of them are Nice Guys and Nice Girls who blame the "pretty people" who use a treadmill as something more than a coat rack for taking all the quality (meaning sexy) men. Shame is meant to be a motivator, and since shame is now verboten in our society, it leads to lazy, unmotivated people who think everything should change but them. So they cry when they need to buy one seat per ass cheek on the plane or train, cry when their food bills are out of control because their appetite is out of control, and sue when a doctor with an ounce of ethical behavior tells them they need to drop some poundage to get healthier. They're told it's not their fault, and they want to believe that's true. If reality conflicts, the three D's come in. Deny, deny, deny.

 

[Jarolleon]

These two posts were in the Jazz Jennings thread, which I didn't want to derail with my Deep Thoughts™.




These got me thinking… do you guys think all the “love your body” and “don’t be ashamed” shit that gets pushed on teenagers and young women these days is actually making this worse?

I don’t know about you guys, but one of the major contributing factors of my discomfort at that age was the sheer amount of sources that wanted to talk at you about puberty and sex. The people who did this believed they were being nothing but helpful and educational since it’s what they wished others would have done for them as a teenager, but I didn’t want that so to me, it just felt extremely uncomfortable and almost borderline violating. (Namely because you were a captive audience to this shit about 99% of the time.)

I say that because lot of the people who are drawn to that “body positive” mentality seem to have that same motivation — they believe they’re being helpful because it’s what they want somebody to tell them, so they assume everyone else must be the same way. They fully believe that people only feel uncomfortable with their bodies because somebody else told them to feel that way, and they're very open with stating this "fact".

But that isn't the case at all. Even just from reading personal anecdotes here at the Farms, it seems like there’s a great many people who felt uncomfortable at puberty and even for years after, because puberty is just an inherently uncomfortable and awkward time.

What I’m getting at is that it’s already bad enough to be feeling miserable because of some bodily thing you have no control over, but then to be constantly bombarded with well-meaning-but-tone-deaf messages that you should enjoy it and be proud of it and show yourself off and talk openly about your bodily functions… well, it's no wonder that some of these teenagers end up feeling like something's wrong with them for being uncomfortable in the first place.

I used to be surprised that there wasn't more animosity between the body-positive types and the trans community (like there is between the trans community and feminists) because their ideals seem completely opposed: Being openly proud of your body completely as-is versus using medication and surgery to change your body so you like it more. But after thinking about it, it's a very quick step from "everyone should love their body" to "if you don't love your body, you need to change it into something you DO love".

Anyway, thoughts?

I wonder what proportion of transtrenders are FtM, the higher that portion the stronger a factor this could be. Tumblrettes do occasionally remember that "body positivity" should logically apply to men too but the main & original thrust of it was about telling girls that they don't have to look like swimsuit models, or (if you're a cynic) cratering female beauty standards so legbeard cat ladies don't get tormented by the existence of prettier women anymore.

 

[NoReturn]

But after thinking about it, it's a very quick step from "everyone should love their body" to "if you don't love your body, you need to change it into something you DO love".

Even just from reading personal anecdotes here at the Farms, it seems like there’s a great many people who felt uncomfortable at puberty and even for years after, because puberty is just an inherently uncomfortable and awkward time.

I think you're on to something if not completely nailing it. I'm one of those people for whom it was awkward and uncomfortable and scary, and looking back at it all I do think that the well-intentioned did end up making things worse. I think it would have helped more to hear someone say "Yeah, it does suck." or "It's okay to feel the way you feel. Here's what you can do to feel better." instead of pushing all this super-positive bullshit.

I'm a fat fuck.

So they cry when they need to buy one seat per ass cheek on the plane or train, cry when their food bills are out of control because their appetite is out of control, and sue when a doctor with an ounce of ethical behavior tells them they need to drop some poundage to get healthier.

But you don't do that shit, right? What do you think were some of the key factors that kept you from going down that path?

 

[Bloitzhole]

While the idea doesn't seem that far fetched from the way you argue , I don't see the actual overlap between the recipients of body positivity messages (young women) and the people actually getting surgeries, as evidenced by this table in a meta study . And if the data suggests that the crowd these messages were most targeted at is trooning far far less, it's probably not a big factor - if it is, we might see so in 5 years or whenever a more current survey is published and a ton more ftm show up.
The study notes though that females might just be better at passing so they don't bother actually transitioning. I think it's just a new kinda tomboy phase that most teenagers undergoing it will grow out of or just incorporate little traits of into their adult personality - hopefully in a healthy way.

 

[EnemyStand]

I think you're on to something if not completely nailing it. I'm one of those people for whom it was awkward and uncomfortable and scary, and looking back at it all I do think that the well-intentioned did end up making things worse. I think it would have helped more to hear someone say "Yeah, it does suck." or "It's okay to feel the way you feel. Here's what you can do to feel better." instead of pushing all this super-positive bullshit.


But you don't do that shit, right? What do you think were some of the key factors that kept you from going down that path?

Correct. And there are two reasons. First one is despite my excess bulk I happened to win the genetic lottery when it comes to fatness. I was a broad, stocky fuck even when I was fit, my heart and bones are stronger than average, and my body puts on muscle easier than most. So I can still move appropriately for a dude my age (even if I tire faster than I should) and I'm just on the cusp of not hanging over my seat too much. Plus I go through cycles where I get serious about working out for a couple months at a time, so I avoided going from fat fuck to FREEEEEEE WILLLLLLLYYYYYY!

Second is self-reflection. I know what I look like, so I have no illusions about my attractiveness. So i have two choices: either get over myself and do my best despite my failings, or REEEEEEE because I had one dozen too many Reese's Cup donuts and not be a fun guy people like to be around. I chose to be a jolly fat man, and making that choice helps me avoid being like many of these cows we enjoy laughing at believe it or not.

 

[Hambubger]

Im pretty sure some that troon out think surgeries will give them the bodies they desire

 

[Fliddaroonie]

Im pretty sure some that troon out think surgeries will give them the bodies they desire

This is so true in fat ftms. They think testosterone and looping off their tits will fix things.

 

[ExsanguinateHorizon]

It's kind of strange because you'd expect the opposite to happen. Comforting kids that it's normal to be uncomfortable is basically the 'it gets better' message to prevent youth from necking themselves over dumb highschool bullshit.

This doesn't seem to be the correlating cause though, but rather a corrupted form of the message. If a young girl thinks she's trans, the correct method should be to sit down with her and seriously go through the therapeutic process to figure out what the core of the issue is. Tell her it's alright feel different, but that most people do and let's figure out why she feels that way. Normalize and smooth it out instead of exacerbating her feelings of 'other' and tossing praise and reward for nothing.

But that's too fucking hard, so manipulative and mentally ill adults sacrifice her for social clout while screaming yaaas nonbinary trans kween on social media. Tumblr/woke art is a pretty stark reflection of this - people certainly shouldn't be 'ashamed' of being unattractive, fat, disfigured etc but tumblr fetishized those qualities. Woke art is wretchedly ugly, but that's a giant circle jerk too. They never praise actual achievements or overcoming real hardship, only that you're non-white, covered in stretch marks and are a ptsd survivor of online gaming.

 

[Banworld]

In a more basic way it is - fat people look the same regardless of sex and so it's easier to transition when you already have tits either way along with no discernible male or female figure.

Compare Jim Sterling in his wig to the health minister of Belgium. Their fatness makes them both just look like ugly amorphous blobs. Their fat has eliminated identifying sexual characteristics.

 

[Banana Bread]

There does seem to be a bit of a double standard at play. I always took the “love yourself!” thing to just be all about preventing eating disorders and not comparing yourself to airbrushed images of models, with fat acceptance being that message taken to its logical extreme. Gender never really came into it when I was growing up as the big shift towards all this gender stuff didn’t really come about until just after I’d finished high school.

Spoiler: Powerlevel

However, I absolutely see where you’re coming from as I was raised by very left wing parents who vocally identified as feminists and always told me “being a woman is wonderful no matter how much society holds you back” but I was never much of a “girly girl” as a teen in the early 2010s, lacked interest in makeup, fashion, dating and all the other typical teenage girl things, and the idea of womanhood frankly scared me because of all the expectations that come with it. I just wanted to go on doing the same things I always had, playing video games and reading, without any of this pesky puberty stuff getting in the way, and though at that point the gender stuff hadn’t quite made it to the mainstream as it has now, I was quite active on Tumblr and was exposed to it through there. So I did take on a “non binary” identity for a year or so (keeping it to myself at school though as it was still obscure at that point and I was worried my classmates wouldn’t understand) and also thought I might have been asexual because of my fear of a real life sexual relationship even though I had many fictional and celebrity crushes, but no counsellor I saw had ever heard of any of those identities so it was just brushed off as me being awkward and a result of my low self esteem, which it was. To this day I’m not super fussed about my appearance and continue to enjoy playing vidya and tabletop games, realising that hobbies and tastes don’t determine your gender, but knowing a lot of these kids also have very left wing parents who give them the same “love yourself!” messages makes me definitely see something of my younger self in them.

So to me the “body positive” movement is hypocritical - what it’s trying to say is “if you’re a big chungus who has difficulty breathing you’re stunning and brave, don’t change a thing about yourself, BUT if you hate your sexual organs don’t be afraid to chop them off!” It really comes down to this whole intersectionality thing that’s crept into just about everything.

 

[Hankypanko]

I don't think body positivity has a lick to do with it starting them off. I think it's genuine internal hatred, at least for women who transition into men.

Spoiler: To avoid shitting the thread up

Puberty is so formative in how women look at their self-identity, and more and more in the past 10 years women have been hyper-idealised. Of course you had it before, but even 10 years ago people moaned about how companies were making bras for young girls, it was at least a little more innocent. Now, they look up to these women and want to be them desperately. Big tits, big ass, impossible photoshopped face. You think 12 year old girls care about what joe tranny schmoe who loves his fat body is ranting about? Fuck no, they're watching rich girls on YouTube with fake tits and lips, who have enough plastic in them you could melt them down and make them into a Lego set.

So what do you get? That environment, where girls see this idolised form of womanhood all over their entertainment in a way that's never been done before, and they grow up ugly and dowdy. Well shit, that's not womanly. That's not successful, or wanted. Maybe that's not what this girl is. Maybe they're not a girl. Maybe they're nonbinary (because that's a thing now), and the more they think on it perhaps they're a boy. They convince themselves, it becomes a solid idea. And in the end they transition.

Trans men I know didn't grow up with that, but all of them I know had strikingly similar teenage years. Unpopular, not pretty, masculine hobbies, bullied, and always ALWAYS saw other prettier girls being absolute little whores and not identifying with it.

It's that insipid thought of, "is this what I'm supposed to be like?" The answer they get when they look is, "Yes, because those girls are liked and you aren't. But if you feel like this then maybe you're the one who is wrong. And those feelings are valid, even if they feel horrible and uncomfortable, because they're yours and you should come to terms with that." So they do. They find their excuses eventually and they stick with it. They're not like other girls, because they aren't a girl.

Body positivity is the result. It's a calling card for all of these uncomfortable and unhappy people to come together and forget and live completely placated by vapid platitudes and meaningless praise, where they rally against the skinnies and the cishets and the neurotypicals because they're angry that they aren't them. Maybe it draws people in, but you gotta be feeling a certain way to start looking in the first place.

Edit: spelling

 

[Mococoa]

I wonder what proportion of transtrenders are FtM, the higher that portion the stronger a factor this could be. Tumblrettes do occasionally remember that "body positivity" should logically apply to men too but the main & original thrust of it was about telling girls that they don't have to look like swimsuit models, or (if you're a cynic) cratering female beauty standards so legbeard cat ladies don't get tormented by the existence of prettier women anymore.

I do believe that there are an alarming amount of girls and women identifying as trans and non binary. I wish I could google the resources for you but when I do it just comes up with shit like “are you trans?! questioning you gender identity? how to respect non binary folx” so I can’t provide evidence. Perhaps I’ll edit and come back.

But female puberty does suck. I’m a young adult today and I often feel sorry for the younger girls going through puberty today. Is it really any surprise that they want to opt out of womanhood when to be a woman in today’s view is heavily commodified? We have plastic barbie-looking freaks who are overly displayed in pornography, photoshopped ‘models’ plastered all over social media, and everything else about women seems to be up for rent. Poor? Why not become a surrogate? Or a sex worker? It’s emPoWeRiNG as a true and honest woman to do degrading and traumatic things. So it’s no wonder more and more girls and women are choosing not to be women any more. I think they troon out not necessarily because they want to be a man, but because they don’t want to be objectified. I do know that a lot of non binary women will hack off their breasts, and will often have eating disorders to have a more ambiguous looking figure.

 

[HensKenKline]

Interesting idea, but I think it might be overcomplicating it. Some people, especially at young age, are more fragile and weak-minded than others and easily accepting of suggestions or afraid to think against the stream.

The contradiction here that you observe about the ideals of body positivity and trannydom being conflicting can in my opinion be abstracted further and looked at from a different angle. What does being fat and being a tranny have in common? It's poisonous dumb retarded garbage that destroys life if you embrace it. Those "principles" each of them proclaim to have (like "accept your body") are just red herrings - they sound kinda "wise" if you don't think about them too much but really they only serve to make you think that the people saying them are sane and "like you" and that they care about empathy and shit. Of course any normal person will agree with "accept your body", what's to disagree with? But a sane person will then also go the next step and say "I accept my body, but that doesn't mean I can't work on making and keeping it healthy and fit so it will last me longer and make me feel better".

Stuff like "accept your body" are justifications for their beliefs that will keep normal people from lynching them. If somebody asks why they believe in this stuff, they can't very well say "I hate humans and love to see them suffer". They have to pretend that their beliefs are at least based on some good intent that normal people can relate to. That way even someone who disagrees with them will at least not outright attack them. In the best case scenario (for them) people will actually feel guilty for disagreeing because they do agree with the pretend-principle. So they come up with these belief-justifications and "principles". I bet it hurts them every time they have to say it out loud because they actually do not believe in it.

That's why their ideology (or that which they pretend to be their ideology) is full of contradictions. And that is also why responding to them with reason and arguments leads nowhere - you aren't actually arguing against their true beliefs, only against their pretend-beliefs.

Note also how on one hand the tranny movement is basically all about believing in some magical thing (your "true self" if you will) that they just somehow intuit and "just know", yet they will make fun of theists for basically following the same logical route towards their faith. It is almost as if they simultaneously believe in a soul (your "true gender [=personality]") that is "caught in the wrong body", yet find the idea of a soul (if you spell it out that way) ridiculous.

Also, if your emotions and self-conception tell you to be a masculine badass man who slays pussy and gets shit done, they will very much invalidate and question your own emotions about this and gaslight you into thinking that this is all just a "social construct" and internalized patriarchy, yet if your emotions tell you that you are a woman in a man's body, they will unquestioningly support this. And of course this can be abstracted in the same way as the original contradiction: Being a confident man means you have agency and health and sanity and it makes you harder to control. Being delusional and wanting to cut off your dick and questioning your masculinity make you weak, puny and easy to control.

TLDR: If your body/mind is shit, ugly and weak, they will tell you to accept it. If your body/mind is great, fit, healthy, they will tell you to question it. Tear down what's good, use your own mind against you, and encourage evil and bad life choices to make you weak and docile. And if you question your own bad ways especially, make you feel bad for identifying your own errors, gaslight you with shame and guilt until you stop questioning your own bad ways, because recognizing your mistakes would lead you onto a path of bettering yourself and they don't want that.

 

[peetz cum sock]

If teenagers were encouraged to do physical activity with their bodies (sports, hiking, making things, caring for others) rather than, as you put it, "talked at" about replacing their negative focus on their bodies to a superficially positive focus on their bodies, I believe there would be more appreciation for what they can do as opposed to whether they fit whichever aesthetic is popular at the time, including the trans trend. No wonder people feel disconnected from their bodies when they live in the social media simulacrum.

edit: repeated word

 

[Sperghetti]

I guess I’m being a bit misinterpreted here, as I wasn’t primarily talking about fat people or the HAES crowd here, or how many fat people transition as opposed to skinny people. I meant the more generic “feminist” version of the message that’s more about celebrating your flaws and looking down on people who think their periods are gross. The sort of mentality that Tumblr artists take to the extreme that makes them draw people purposely ugly and hair-covered. (I’m not sure there’s really a seperate term for that that hasn’t been coopted by the HAES crowd.)

Nor was I really talking about anyone who goes through with surgery, just teenagers (particularly girls) considering themselves to be trans.

I think you're on to something if not completely nailing it. I'm one of those people for whom it was awkward and uncomfortable and scary, and looking back at it all I do think that the well-intentioned did end up making things worse. I think it would have helped more to hear someone say "Yeah, it does suck." or "It's okay to feel the way you feel. Here's what you can do to feel better." instead of pushing all this super-positive bullshit.

I think there are a lot of people who would benefit from hearing that feeling uncomfortable in your own skin is common and that it gets better with time. And that likewise, being grossed out or embarrassed by your body is also quite normal, and wanting to keep your dignity about it doesn't mean something's wrong with you. Not everyone mirrors Are You There God? It's Me Margaret.

If teenagers were encouraged to do physical activity with their bodies (sports, hiking, making things, caring for others) rather than, as you put it, "talked at" about replacing their negative focus on their bodies negatively to a superficially positive focus on their bodies, I believe there would be more appreciation for what they can do as opposed to whether they fit whichever aesthetic is popular at the time, including the trans trend. No wonder people feel disconnected from their bodies when they live in the social media simulacrum.

That's an excellent point. So much of both of the trans trend and the body positivity mentality are about shallow appearances, even though both try to pretend they're actually about some deeper truth. At the end of the day, they both revolve entirely around how you present to others, not who you internally are or what you can do. Another thing that I hear a lot of people describe is being afraid of the "expectations" of being a woman (or man), and that often translates to the fear that growing up would mean that they'd have to abandon their current interests and hobbies and general attitude. I think a lot of this fear would be quelled if, like you said, teenagers were more encouraged to focus on what they can actually go do.

 

[Banana Bread]

I guess I’m being a bit misinterpreted here, as I wasn’t primarily talking about fat people or the HAES crowd here, or how many fat people transition as opposed to skinny people. I meant the more generic “feminist” version of the message that’s more about celebrating your flaws and looking down on people who think their periods are gross. The sort of mentality that Tumblr artists take to the extreme that makes them draw people purposely ugly and hair-covered. (I’m not sure there’s really a seperate term for that that hasn’t been coopted by the HAES crowd.)

I get you - when feminists are pushing female puberty as some magical exciting time and glorifying periods, to a young girl who’s shy or just not confident, all that rhetoric can be cringe inducing and make them want nothing to do with it. (This was my experience) And if hating your breasts and periods = internalised misogyny, in feminist speak, then the easiest way to avoid such accusations? Claim to not be female at all but in fact, actually male or non binary on the inside.

Though the “female bodies are beautiful and amazing!” thing might be considered “TERF” nowadays as it excludes the male troons who are envious of female puberty. It’s hard to keep up.

Another thing that I hear a lot of people describe is being afraid of the "expectations" of being a woman (or man), and that often translates to the fear that growing up would mean that they'd have to abandon their current interests and hobbies and general attitude. I think a lot of this fear would be quelled if, like you said, teenagers were more encouraged to focus on what they can actually go do.

. Rather than getting bombarded with all these messages about how body parts/functions are somehow empowering, it would do these kids good to hear that no matter what changes you undergo, the most important thing is being yourself, i.e. doing things for yourself that you enjoy, and that navigating the world of sexuality and relationships, deciding whether or not you want to have a baby, etc. can wait. And when the time comes for those things, they still don’t define who you are as a person. You’d have to sell it a certain way, though - teens think they know it all, and sometimes get a bit snippy when authority figures tell them what to do.

 

[Kosher Dill]

I don't think body positivity plays into it at all, it's more that being female has always been rough and is only getting worse. Once the suggestion has been planted, of course there's going to be the temptation to think "Maybe I'm miserable because I'm the wrong sex".

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned is that adopting a custom gender is a sort of "cheat code" for social interactions. It's quite common for teens to be celebrated for coming out as LGBTVHS, make new friends, get love-bombed by internet creeps, and so on. That's necessarily going to be a temptation for people struggling to find their footing in the new world of young adulthood. And it's a one-way ratchet - the more you build your social circle and identity on this stuff, the harder it is to say "I guess it was just a phase".

 

[Cool Dude 69]

I think when one of our Loud, Irritating Fat Grifters goes Trans, it may be... just a little bit? part of the grift. And in bigger part, a lot of cognative dissonances. You see the same thing happens when people try to actually get in shape and have to dance around eggshells in the Fat Pos community. It might be mentally less difficult to turn around and say "UMM I DONT THINK I'M THE RIGHT GENDER"

People who are very fat, sometimes mention how they experience gender. And I believe those observations do have some basis in reality and do affect how they feel about sex, sexuality and gender. Its probably just an easier path to take than a different, drastic life change. And you get to keep your grift.

 

[CobraPlissken]

I think the way both ideologies are interconnected is in the insistence of treating your body as a separate entity from your mind, and in that both are death cults that encourage people — and girls are more vulnerable to it, since a lot of their value in society depends on how attractive they are, how capable they are of attracting a mate to breed, and it's quite scary for a lot of them to realize it — to destroy their bodies so they can be "themselves".

While "body positivity" seems to suggest that you should love your body as it is, it's only on the surface. It's actually a way more passive approach to self-destruction: loving your body often means doing things that will bring you discomfort — like exercising, eating healthy meals, undergoing sometimes painful and uncomfortable medical tests regularly, and so on — but the bopo movement encourages you to do otherwise under the guise of "self-love" , "mental health" and "acceptance".

The trans trend is a more aggressive approach: it encourages you to be more proactive in your self-destruction by taking hormones that will wreak havoc in your organs and maiming your body with surgery, also under the guise of "self-love", "mental health" and "acceptance".