Is drawn child pornography (loli) bad?

[spinch]

loli porn enables pedophiles point blank period. and the more they're enabled the deeper they get into their sick fantasy. the deeper they get into it, the more likely they are to start seeking out images of real children, and then real children.

pedophiles need intensive sex therapy, not a cheap, free, and legal way to get off.

 

[Male Idiot]

Loli is for headpats.

Loli is prepubescent girls.

It is creepy as porn.

16 year old is not loli. Lolis are flat.

 

[Sasha]

But I also recognize that a lot of people enjoy loli and shota without being pedo irl

As opposed to being an exclusively-online pedophile ?

 

[Cilleystring]

@ryu289 your thoughts?

 

[Mewtwo_Rain]

This is not a simple yes and no question as much as it may appear so.

I'll take the no option first but provide a different angle as to why. Pedophiles can easily get child porn and loli/hentai/etc. Doesn't actually effect them. However, some pedophiles keep images of such porn around them as a subtle nod to other pedophiles kind of like a signal to get it across they're part of the group.

Now if you just took people who jerked to it/looked at it, I'd say yes, because a lot of people look at stuff like this all the time and aren't pedophiles and the same concept applies to incest porn/etc. (Whether someone is incest for looking at it: No not instantly) Now if you have a bunch of incest pornographic images lying around your house I'd not be surprised to see it being a signal to other deviants who are same in this situation.

If you ignore the signaling thing then I'd argue no. The problem is it does get used for signaling other pedos quite a bit. I remember one time I met an online community who would use ascii art of lolicon to let other know they were pedophiles,. At first I didn't realize it until asking them why they would use such inappropriate imagery in their posts, and they not-so-subtly spelt it out for me.

 

[Nickolas Gurr]

Nobody cares what kind of drawn artwork you pull your pud to. If you care, fuck off and mind your own business.

Child molesters get the bullet. People trying to normalize pedophilia get the bullet. In minecraft.

Said it before and i'll say it again; there is a difference between being a degenerate in the privacy of your own home or with your degenerate friends, and advocating degeneracy.

>Czech defends child porn
Not surprised.
But actually, I agree, but the society should, without resorting to violence, be allowed to publicly shame people who do unhealthy stuff, just to motivate him to stop.

 

[SSj_Ness]

A lot of people look at stuff like this all the time and aren't pedophiles and the same concept applies to incest porn/etc. (Whether someone is incest for looking at it: No not instantly)

That's an interesting point. Incest is wrong, and I oppose it. I'd treat anyone involved in any form of it as a freak much like homosexuals, and I can't even bear the thought of doing any of that with my own family (even typing that is disturbing). Incestual behavior/thoughts are definitely a mental illness.

While I oppose homosexuality I admittedly do honestly find lesbian porn attractive. Similarly, I oppose incest but I'd be lying if I said I don't think lesbian twins are pretty hot. But I still vehemently oppose homosexuality and incest, and I am not a homosexual nor am I incestual. I suppose it's hypocrisy or something? I don't know, but I try not to look at porn at all, it's rather deviant by nature, but everyone messes up.

Still, these are all consenting adults, degenerate as they may be. Anyone viewing inappropriate images of minors doesn't have that defense at all, so it's obviously different.

If it's cartoon porn I think it's less despicable as there's no victim, and it is certainly not illegal (plus the art usually doesn't actually very accurately portray human anatomy), but even still, people into it are very much deserving of scorn, ridicule, and ostracization. Just because something isn't illegal doesn't mean society should tolerate it.

 

[Mewtwo_Rain]

That's an interesting point. Incest is wrong, and I oppose it. I'd treat anyone involved in any form of it as a freak much like homosexuals, and I can't even bear the thought of doing any of that with my own family (even typing that is disturbing). Incestual behavior/thoughts are definitely a mental illness.

While I oppose homosexuality I admittedly do honestly find lesbian porn attractive. Similarly, I oppose incest but I'd be lying if I said I don't think lesbian twins are pretty hot. But I still vehemently oppose homosexuality and incest, and I am not a homosexual nor am I incestual. I suppose it's hypocrisy or something? I don't know, but I try not to look at porn at all, it's rather deviant by nature, but everyone messes up.

Still, I these are all consenting adults, degenerate as they may be. Anyone viewing inappropriate images of minors doesn't have that defense at all, so it's obviously different.

If it's cartoon porn I think it's less despicable as there's no victim, and it is certainly not illegal (plus the art usually doesn't actually very accurately portray human anatomy), but even still, people into it are very much deserving of scorn, ridicule, and ostracization. Just because something isn't illegal doesn't mean society should tolerate it.

Personally I think the reason incest porn is so popular along with lolicon is merely because it's part of the group known as "the forbidden fruits." Things that are taboo are often popular.

I agree with your assertion on porn being deviant and I'm not paticularly fond of it, personally I'd rather indulge myself in a fine lady than be staring at pictures of women I'll never be with or partake.

When it comes to minors I agree CP has no excuse, lolicon though due to psychological studies and more I don't see in the same frame. It's questionable and immoral but I think there's a clear distinct different. Now the one's I've heard people looking at that try to depict lolicon as anatomically correct hentai, that's when that acceptance becomes less in my mind and seems more of a how to guide to abduct and screw children. It's why many hentai sites from what I hear allow lolicon but ban the more accurate depictions due to that disturbing leap.

It's similar to furry porn and beastiality. You don't hear many people complaining about people screwing humanoid animals (easy examples: Renamon/etc.) But draw some hentai of some guy screwing a pig or cow that looks anatomically correct and you're going to have a lot of awkward stares and for good reason.

 

[SSj_Ness]

Personally I think the reason incest porn is so popular along with lolicon is merely because it's part of the group known as "the forbidden fruits." Things that are taboo are often popular.

That could be part of it, but then wouldn't people be into all variety of the "forbidden fruits"? Like necrophilia, bestiality, and such, instead of cherry picking them?

I agree with your assertion on porn being deviant and I'm not paticularly fond of it, personally I'd rather indulge myself in a fine lady than be staring at pictures of women I'll never be with or partake.

I'm glad we agree on that, I wish more people would.

When it comes to minors I agree CP has no excuse, lolicon though due to psychological studies and more I don't see in the same frame. It's questionable and immoral but I think there's a clear distinct different. Now the one's I've heard people looking at that try to depict lolicon as anatomically correct hentai, that's when that acceptance becomes less in my mind and seems more of a how to guide to abduct and screw children. It's why many hentai sites from what I hear allow lolicon but ban the more accurate depictions due to that disturbing leap.

Pretty much agree. Hyperrealistic "art" should probably just be illegal. Nobody's hurt over Sailor Moon porn, but anything realistic is crossing the boundaries of what should be allowed. It'd almost certainly be a gateway situation.

It's similar to furry porn and beastiality. You don't hear many people complaining about people screwing humanoid animals (easy examples: Renamon/etc.) But draw some hentai of some guy screwing a pig or cow that looks anatomically correct and you're going to have a lot of awkward stares and for good reason.

I don't know, I think people fapping to furry stuff deserve awkward stares lol. Anyway, even if it's realistic depictions of animals I don't think that's too bad. It's gross and immoral but it's just an animal, even if that leads someone to porking a pig it's really not a crime against humanity. Not a very significant victim there. I think when banning things we need to consider the reasons and risks. I don't see a good enough reason to ban even realistic depictions of bestiality, sick as those people are.

 

[Mewtwo_Rain]

That could be part of it, but then wouldn't people be into all variety of the "forbidden fruits"? Like necrophilia, bestiality, and such, instead of cherry picking them?

I think most people try to pretty them up. Necrophilia could be substituted for Guro and that awkward crap. Beastiality is replaced with furries/humanoid creatures (elves/etc.), and the like. Incest, guro, and loli though are the three most popular from what I understand though Guro isn't that popular just because of how disgusting it is, and necrophilia could be prettied up with humanoid/zombie porn. It's probably also why "rape hentai" and "rape fantasy" porn is so popular as well. Funny enough even troon hentai is pretty popular and all kinds of weird awkward shit like ye old "shitting dick nipples." Which I think is meant to come off as unsettling and became popular for being a parody of extreme people jerk off to, at least in my opinion.

 

[SSj_Ness]

I think most people try to pretty them up. Necrophilia could be substituted for Guro and that awkward crap. Beastiality is replaced with furries/humanoid creatures (elves/etc.), and the like. Incest, guro, and loli though are the three most popular from what I understand though Guro isn't that popular just because of how disgusting it is, and necrophilia could be prettied up with humanoid/zombie porn. It's probably also why "rape hentai" and "rape fantasy" porn is so popular as well. Funny enough even troon hentai is pretty popular and all kinds of weird awkward shit like ye old "shitting dick nipples." Which I think is meant to come off as unsettling and became popular for being a parody of extreme people jerk off to, at least in my opinion.

"Guro" huh? Guess I have something to search in incognito mode now.

 

[Mewtwo_Rain]

"Guro" huh? Guess I have something to search in incognito mode now.

I'd personally recommend not doing that. It's pretty gross. The tame stuff can be funny, like the eye-ball licking torture images, but the rest of guro is some degenerate stuff.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

Tldr: Fictional violence is fine, some degenerate sexual fiction might be harmless in itself but probably indicates an unwell person. There's probably an inherent difference between sex & violence which makes one okay to fantasize about but not the other.

tl;dr: "the weird thing I do and enjoy is fine, the weird thing others enjoy is probably an indicator of an unwell person"

funny how the line between fine and weird or degenerate is always 2 inches beyond where the speaker is themselves.

 

[TV's Adam West]

Some of you mother fuckers glow like the sun.

 

[SSj_Ness]

tl;dr: "the weird thing I do and enjoy is fine, the weird thing others enjoy is probably an indicator of an unwell person"

funny how the line between fine and weird or degenerate is always 2 inches beyond where the speaker is themselves.

Fictional violent media is just different than fictional sexual media. There's a reason nobody bats an eye at someone watching Saw but will feel revulsion if they catch you fapping to Dora the Explorer porn.

Yeah, I already know it's not a solid or scientific argument, but I do think it's self-evident that these inherent differences exist.

So me liking violent fiction isn't degenerate. It's probably immoral on some level but it's not at all correlated to actual violent desire, I don't want to go on a rampage like in GTA. I wouldn't trust someone fapping to Dora to babysit someone of Dora the Explorer's target age demographic.

I'm not trying to do a holier than thou thing here, it's just rational risk assessment.

 

[Slap47]

Fictional violent media is just different than fictional sexual media. There's a reason nobody bats an eye at someone watching Saw but will feel revulsion if they catch you fapping to Dora the Explorer porn.

Yeah, I already know it's not a solid or scientific argument, but I do think it's self-evident that these inherent differences exist.

So me liking violent fiction isn't degenerate. It's probably immoral on some level but it's not at all correlated to actual violent desire, I don't want to go on a rampage like in GTA. I wouldn't trust someone fapping to Dora to babysit someone of Dora the Explorer's target age demographic.

I'm not trying to do a holier than thou thing here, it's just rational risk assessment.

How would you explain that to somebody in the People's Republic of China where both are banned in regards to video games? There are also quite a few people that get repulsed by violence in video games in the West (moral majority types, certain types of communists, etc). Hell, the current argument made by people like Sarkeesian is that racism and sexism in video games leads to racism and sexism in real life that leads to violence.

 

[SSj_Ness]

How would you explain that to somebody in the People's Republic of China where both are banned in regards to video games? There are also quite a few people that get repulsed by violence in video games in the West (moral majority types, certain types of communists, etc). Hell, the current argument made by people like Sarkeesian is that racism and sexism in video games leads to racism and sexism in real life that leads to violence.

Something being legal or illegal is irrelevant in the end. The truth if whether something is good or bad, or to what degree something is bad, is more important. So whatever China bans doesn't necessarily reflect the truth.

There's some people who are repulsed by virtually anything, even including nature (like lions eating other animals). We can't ban everything based on repulsion alone, so I don't think it matters if people are repulsed by fictional violence.

Thing is, Sarkeesian can't prove that racism in games results in real life racism. If she could, she'd be right, but she's a retarded hack so she's wrong.

I get your basic point, that there's a level of subjectivity to this. And I'm not calling for the banning of anything particular (though porn in general should be better regulated). I just think that most people find immoral depictions of fictional violence to be more tolerable than immoral depictions of fictional sexuality, and I feel that's natural and good, even if it may not necessarily be objectively correct.

Regardless, do we really want to make degenerate pornography more accepted? Even if fictional violence is just as bad or actually worse, then it's better to discourage excessive violence than to de-stigmatize degenerate porn.

 

[thegooddoctor]

Of course It is, what an absolutely fucking horrible and retarded question, look the US Law constitutes than even art or any drawn visual representations of underage boys and girls counts as child pornography, and the distribution of said is a federal offense. There can be some grey area with art of non human characters and imagery that are fantastical enough that they are removed from human anatomy. But that is simply splitting hairs and anybody who seriously enjoys underage explorative art of minors should be locked up or fried appropriately. End of.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

If you're jerking off to clips of Mortal Kombat fatalities and Doom yeah there's something fucked up in your head and watching those clips isn't doing you or anyone else any good. Pedos jerk off to drawn CP. It doesn't do them or anyone else any good. It's still indulging in the fantasy and pedo fantasies shouldn't be indulged in any way.

I don't agree that there's something wrong with a person for liking excessive violence; I DO like seeing virtual people dismembered (and tortured, and destroyed, etc).

I'm not a lunatic just because I like torturing and/or mutilating NPCs in video games. I can distinguish between reality and fantasy, and while I do question the morality of fictional violence I don't think it at all correlates with actual violence. Maybe it can encourage people who already have violent thoughts or tendencies, especially young or mentally ill people, but I have no interest in committing actual atrocities in real life.

To me, one of the best parts of Skyrim was racking up my kill count in the most violent ways. Beheading people was a blast, as was building corpse piles. I was disappointed I couldn't kill the kid NPC kids, too.

MGS2 let you torture enemies. There wasn't much variety in how to do so, but it was among my favorite features. I was hoping it'd be expanded in MGS3, but they really didn't change much aside from adding a more useful interrogation element.

Even in less realistic games such as Soulcalibur, after I win I attack my defeated enemy as much as possible. It's just fun to fuck (virtual) people up.

Then there's suicide, too. I'm not [strike]that[/strike] suicidal because I kill myself in video games. I like to see the different death screens and check out the physics as I hurl myself off a cliff or something.

Anyway, this isn't in defense of anything, just disagreement specifically with what you said pertaining to violence. I don't care if people won't think what I play or how I play is normal, I play games how I want.

Now, as to the porn thing, maybe there's an inherent difference between depictions of sex and violence in media. Just because it's normal to enjoy killing, torture, and suicide in games doesn't mean abnormal sex media is normal. Maybe some people who indulge in rape fantasy or underage cartoon porn do want to act those things out in reality with real victims, I just don't know. Probably better safe than sorry though.

With fiction, text or cartoon specifically, it's probably technically harmless since it's just words in a page or ink on paper, nobody is actually being violated. It's still a sick person though and I wouldn't want someone deep into rape fantasies anywhere around my family, just to be safe.

Tldr: Fictional violence is fine, some degenerate sexual fiction might be harmless in itself but probably indicates an unwell person. There's probably an inherent difference between sex & violence which makes one okay to fantasize about but not the other.

loli porn enables pedophiles point blank period. and the more they're enabled the deeper they get into their sick fantasy. the deeper they get into it, the more likely they are to start seeking out images of real children, and then real children.

pedophiles need intensive sex therapy, not a cheap, free, and legal way to get off.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: There is no scientific link between lolicon/shotacon and actual pedophilia. Watching this stuff doesn't create pedophiles, or make one a pedophile, or increase pedophilic tendencies anymore than watching a slasher film will make one a serial killer. Its fantasy, FICTION, and doesn't reflect real life. People who engage in it are not necessarily pedophiles anymore than a woman who has rape fantasies actually wants to get raped in real life (and many women have rape fantasies; they are actually one of the most common fantasies among women). Pedos are pedos because of something messed up in their heads; maybe its childhood trauma, maybe its brain chemistry, but its much greater than simply watching Boku no Pico one too many times.

Of course It is, what an absolutely fucking horrible and exceptional question, look the US Law constitutes than even art or any drawn visual representations of underage boys and girls counts as child pornography, and the distribution of said is a federal offense. There can be some grey area with art of non human characters and imagery that are fantastical enough that they are removed from human anatomy. But that is simply splitting hairs and anybody who seriously enjoys underage explorative art of minors should be locked up or fried appropriately. End of.

We've had discussions about this in other threads, but the long and short of it is this: nobody in the U.S. is going to come after you for loli or shota, period. Those "crimes" are more charges they use to tack on to pedophiles if they get caught with the stuff so they can tack on more years to their other charges. Only one person has ever been charged for having lolicon manga itself, and he would have gotten off had his first lawyer not had him plead guilty to the charges, something the judge in the case outright admitted. The feds are too busy chasing actual pedophiles to give a fuck about comics and cartoons. Also, you come off tryhard and unhinged with the "locked up or fried" remark. Maybe don't do that.

 

[Darsheel]

Is kissing a car against the law