Is Hate Crime a Media Creation & Does it Discriminate against the Majority ?

Travoltron

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It is a made up term though & didn't exist until fairly recently.
You're right about this and I don't know exactly why you're getting ratioed.
"Hate Crime" is basically a modern invention that didn't really get implemented until the 21st century. South Park had an episode (Cartman's Silly Hate Crime 2000) about why the concept was retarded. That was back in 2000 when the topic was still being debated.
 

Rancid Flid

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You're right about this and I don't know exactly why you're getting ratioed.
"Hate Crime" is basically a modern invention that didn't really get implemented until the 21st century. South Park had an episode (Cartman's Silly Hate Crime 2000) about why the concept was exceptional. That was back in 2000 when the topic was still being debated.

Thanks. Here's a couple of examples that I hope you guys in the US never have to accept as lawful.

On 13 October 2001, Harry Hammond, an evangelist, was arrested and charged under section 5 of the Public Order Act (1986) because he had displayed to people in Bournemoutha large sign bearing the words "Jesus Gives Peace, Jesus is Alive, Stop Immorality, Stop Homosexuality, Stop Lesbianism, Jesus is Lord". In April 2002, a magistrate convicted Hammond, fined him £300, and ordered him to pay costs of £395.[14][15][16]

On 23 April 2018, Scottish YouTuber Mark Meechan of Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire was fined £800 after being found "grossly offensive" for posting a YouTube video that was viewed over 3 million times depicting him training his girlfriend's pug to respond to the phrase "Sieg Heil" by lifting his paw in a Nazi salute. [26] Tory MP Philip Davies requested a review of freedom of expression in parliament in response to the conviction.[27] Comedians Ricky Gervais and David Baddiel tweeted in support of Meechan.[28][29][30] Tom Walker, Shappi Khorsandi, and Stephen Fry defended Meechan and criticized other comedians for their silence on the issue.[31][32][33] Meechan, who plans to appeal, was sentenced to pay an £800 fine on April 23, 2018.[34][35] A crowd of about 500 people protested the move in London.[36]

In 2017, 19-year old Croxteth resident Chelsea Russell quoted a line from Snap Dogg's song "I'm Trippin'" on her Instagram page. The line, which read "Kill a snitch nigga, rob a rich nigga", was copied from a friend's page as part of a tribute to Frankie Murphy who was killed in a car accident at age 13.[37][38] Hate crime investigators were alerted to the presence of the slur and charged Russell with "sending a grossly offensive message by means of a public electronic communications network". Defence lawyer Carole Clarke stated that she received a request from one of the arresting officers that the word "nigga", the subject of the trial, not be used in court.[39] In April 2018, District Judge Jack McGarva found Russell guilty and delivered a sentence which included a £585 fine, a curfew and an ankle monitoring bracelet.[40] However, Russell's conviction was overturned by Liverpool Crown Court on 21st February 2019.[41]

At one time, just insulting somebody was considered as a hate crime by law but thankfully, our House of Lords had it amended & removed.

It just seems ridiculous that you can be sent to prison here just for offending someone who belongs to a protected class. Or actually, I don't think any one person needs to complain of being offended for something to be considered a hate crime. Clownworld.
 

ProgKing of the North

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On 23 April 2018, Scottish YouTuber Mark Meechan of Coatbridge, North Lanarkshire was fined £800 after being found "grossly offensive" for posting a YouTube video that was viewed over 3 million times depicting him training his girlfriend's pug to respond to the phrase "Sieg Heil" by lifting his paw in a Nazi salute. [26] Tory MP Philip Davies requested a review of freedom of expression in parliament in response to the conviction.[27] Comedians Ricky Gervais and David Baddiel tweeted in support of Meechan.[28][29][30] Tom Walker, Shappi Khorsandi, and Stephen Fry defended Meechan and criticized other comedians for their silence on the issue.[31][32][33] Meechan, who plans to appeal, was sentenced to pay an £800 fine on April 23, 2018.[34][35] A crowd of about 500 people protested the move in London.[36]
Confession time: I didn't know Dankula's real name (and iti din't help that I misread the date as 2008), so my first reaction to this was wondering what the fuck the deal is with you Brits and Nazi pugs
 

Rancid Flid

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Confession time: I didn't know Dankula's real name (and iti din't help that I misread the date as 2008), so my first reaction to this was wondering what the fuck the deal is with you Brits and Nazi pugs

So out of interest, do you think he should have been dragged before a court for what I'm fairly sure was just a joke ? Yes, it was probably in bad taste but honestly, you've got more chance of getting away with violently attacking someone here than you have just for having a dark sense of humour that might upset a few people.

I believe him when he said he did it to wind his girlfriend up, as it was her dog & the Nazi salute was quite funny IMO. Saying "Gas the Jews" was probably taking it a bit far but it's just black humour.
 

ProgKing of the North

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So out of interest, do you think he should have been dragged before a court for what I'm fairly sure was just a joke ? Yes, it was probably in bad taste but honestly, you've got more chance of getting away with violently attacking someone here than you have just for having a dark sense of humour that might upset a few people.

I believe him when he said he did it to wind his girlfriend up, as it was her dog & the Nazi salute was quite funny IMO. Saying "Gas the Jews" was probably taking it a bit far but it's just black humour.
Oh no, absolutely not, the ruling was bullshit, I was just amused that apparently making pugs do Nazi shit was apparently a thing that frequently happens over there
 

Rancid Flid

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Oh no, absolutely not, the ruling was bullshit, I was just amused that apparently making pugs do Nazi shit was apparently a thing that frequently happens over there

Well, our royals first set the standards with Nazism, so...

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Rancid Flid

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It's really not comparable to 1933. Context of what nazi and nazi salute is, was completely different.

I know buddy, it's just a minor shitpost really. But at the time, our royals were actually sympathetic to the Nazi's, three of Prince Philips sisters married high ranking Nazi officers, one even to the head of the SS. They attended funerals of Nazi's & socialised with them & as I'm sure you probably know, they have a German background & changed their name from Saxe-Coburg Gotha to the less Germanic sounding Windsor during WW1. Former palace workers allege that there's a large collection of Nazi memorabilia in Buckingham Palace too. The queen did her bit during WW2 but the fact is that they were very close to the Nazi's at one time.
 
M

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So out of interest, do you think he should have been dragged before a court for what I'm fairly sure was just a joke ? Yes, it was probably in bad taste but honestly, you've got more chance of getting away with violently attacking someone here than you have just for having a dark sense of humour that might upset a few people.

I believe him when he said he did it to wind his girlfriend up, as it was her dog & the Nazi salute was quite funny IMO. Saying "Gas the Jews" was probably taking it a bit far but it's just black humour.
I think that black humor should be allowed but actual Naziism should be outlawed as hate speech. Counting racism as free speech is unique to the First Amendment of the US Constitution and I don’t think that would work in a different culture such as British culture. As I said in another thread, Britain would be better off as a traditional autocratic monarchy because that system does not pretend to give people political freedom and as your examples from the U.K. show, the worst tyranny comes from a government pretending to give people political freedom.
 

Rancid Flid

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I think that black humor should be allowed but actual Naziism should be outlawed as hate speech. Counting racism as free speech is unique to the First Amendment of the US Constitution and I don’t think that would work in a different culture such as British culture. As I said in another thread, Britain would be better off as a traditional autocratic monarchy because that system does not pretend to give people political freedom and as your examples from the U.K. show, the worst tyranny comes from a government pretending to give people political freedom.

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure what our laws are on Nazism but neo-Nazi groups are swiftly proscribed & being a member can often mean jail just for being part of the banned group. The trouble is, if Nazism were banned, it could only follow that communism should be banned, as it's responsible for more deaths & at least as many atrocities as the Nazis were. Ironically, the cliched Che Guevara t-shirt is still popular with many of the Commie type, woke, SJW crowd, who fail to realise that he hated blacks & homos & may have murdered some too. One day, I shall troll an SJW in a Che t-shirt & see if I can make their head explode.


A FANATICAL neo-Nazi couple who named their baby son Adolf in honour of Hitler have been jailed for membership of a terrorist group.
Adam Thomas and Claudia Patatas both had a ‘long history of violent, racist beliefs’, judge Melbourne Inman QC told them during sentencing.
Thomas, 22, was jailed for six years and six months for membership of banned far-right group National Action, while Patatas, 38, was given five years.



 
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A “hate crime” is a term used by the Jewish media to label actions that they don’t approve of. It was originally created to give National Socialists longer sentences in prison, but was also picked up by the media. As for discriminating against the majority, that is some humanist bullshit.
 

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As a side note, the way UK legislation works for it to be a "Hate Crime", your target needs to be one of the protected minorities highlighted within the Equality act; That is LGBT, Muslims, Jews, Blacks, Middle Easterners and those of mixed race (far easterners don't seem to be included). If they're not listed as a protected category, it's not possible for a hate crime to have been committed thus black on white crime isn't a hate crime, but a white on black crime is initially assumed to be one.

It does get more confusing and there is a pecking order when minorities attack each other though; LGBT critique of Islam has been clarified as being a hate crime from previous court battles in the UK but at the same time extreme Islamic preaching against LGBT and westerners has been deemed permissible. Black Evangelical Christians preaching on things like Trannies have been deemed found of incitement to hatred whereas White Scottish Catholics doing it have previously been found guilty of it.
 
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Rancid Flid

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A “hate crime” is a term used by the Jewish media to label actions that they don’t approve of. It was originally created to give National Socialists longer sentences in prison, but was also picked up by the media. As for discriminating against the majority, that is some humanist bullshit.

So are you saying that the hate crime laws we have in Britain don't discriminate against white Brits ? I think @Fagatron has summed up the situation perfectly. These made up laws do not protect the majority, they oppress them & stop them from voicing legitimate concerns & criticism.
 

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@Otto1488 I don't know if it's more an American phenomenon with Jews being a super protected class beyond critique, but Jews in the Europe and especially in France and the United Kingdom get a pretty rough time.

Anti-Semitism is openly tolerated here, if not actively supported by mainstream parties like Labor. Corbyn doesn't even hide the fact receives funding from groups like Hamas and attended events led by extreme anti-zionist and anti-Semitic groups. It's illegal in most places to promote things like the Protocols of Zion as being truth or denying the Holocaust but it's a rare day (outside Germany) anyone of the protected class most often behind it actually gets in trouble for it.

When Jews say it's dangerous to openly advertise their faith in Europe they're not joking, I've seen how just being whiter than the neighbours with a big nose in the wrong migrant-dominated area will get you into trouble let alone wearing a star of david or kippah.

I'm sure you can guess which peaceful religious sect is behind most of it.
 
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ToroidalBoat

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I remember saying something like this before: I think the whole notion of "hate crime" can be divisive, dividing groups of people who weren't necessarily involved into the "oppressors" and the "marginalized." It's better to just prosecute a crime for what it is (assault, murder, etc), instead of raising identity politics.
 

nonvir_1984

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OP says "There's no such thing as a love crime". Actually, some jurisdictions do recognize such crimes. They are usually caught under the general heading of crime passionel. These are crimes - acts the law prohibits - where the defendant has as an excuse for committing the crime such as sudden anger or heartbreak. Such crimes eliminate the element of "premeditation" and can be provoked in some cases by seeing someone one loves be unfaithful, threatened or harmed (and you spring to their defense). To be sure, there are crimes passionel that do not arise out of love but anger, remorse, guilt. As well, some countries permit a defense of mercy killing, when done out of love not gain or revenge or some such.
As for the question. Trivially, yes - the term was coined by journalists - and policy advoates:
The term "hate crime" was coined in the 1980s by journalists and policy advocates who were attempting to describe a series of incidents directed at Jews, Asians and African-Americans. The Federal Bureau of Investigation defines hate crime (also known as bias crime) as "a criminal offense committed against a person, property, or society that is motivated, in whole or in part, by the offender's bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or ethnicity/national origin. https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/overview-hate-crime
But the idea of a special class of crime pertaining to unlawful treatment because of race, color, religion, or national origin appeared in 1968, when Congress passed, and President Lyndon Johnson signed into law, the first federal hate crimes statute. https://www.justice.gov/crt/hate-crime-laws
In other countries such crimes of bigotry are referred to as racial villification ocrimes - or more generally vilification crimes, because Islam is not a race.
That was then.
Now, the term is overused and is being used to silence debate and discussion and also to refer to crimes that may not be hate crimes at all - such as rape. It becomes a hate crime if the rape is motivated by the victim's ethnicity or race. "Hate crime" confuses motivation (why you act) with intent (what you want to achieve). Most crimes called "hate crimes" nowadays do not spring from hate, as a visceral emotion of disgust and loathing - a hateful motivation; but from bigotry, beliefs about groups of people and the members of the group.
In my view, we need to abandon this term or define it more carefully and focus it's use. Instead concentrate on the intent - and use the emotion as an aggravating factor.
As for whiteies having a monopoly on it, that is just nonsense. Rwanda the Balkans, Iran ("Death to America") and a mess of other places all wallow in hate crimes, but it is convenient for SJWs to blame whitey.

OP asks "won't this breed more resentment towards the protected minorities, who seem to have more rights in law than the majority?"
Yes it is doing just that. The double standards in a range of things, including hate crimes, are in fact drawing people to extreme right ideology and fueling resentment and also validating various conspiracy theories, which inturn draw support and supporters and make matters worse.
Banning extreme right and deplatforming people is also having the same effect.
Although some on the right bemoan this, there are others who welcome it and actively campaign for it, as they see it as part of a non-violent for now accelerationist program, hastening the end of a sick system.
Enough sperging.
The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
 

Rancid Flid

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@Otto1488 I don't know if it's more an American phenomenon with Jews being a super protected class beyond critique, but Jews in the Europe and especially in France and the United Kingdom get a pretty rough time.

Anti-Semitism is openly tolerated here, if not actively supported by mainstream parties like Labor. Corbyn doesn't even hide the fact receives funding from groups like Hamas and attended events led by extreme anti-zionist and anti-Semitic groups. It's illegal in most places to promote things like the Protocols of Zion as being truth or denying the Holocaust but it's a rare day (outside Germany) anyone of the protected class most often behind it actually gets in trouble for it.

When Jews say it's dangerous to openly advertise their faith in Europe they're not joking, I've seen how just being whiter than the neighbours with a big nose in the wrong migrant-dominated area will get you into trouble let alone wearing a star of david or kippah.

I'm sure you can guess which peaceful religious sect is behind most of it.

Interesting. I agree with much of this but as far as Britain goes, I wouldn't say that anti-Semitism is tolerated here, except when it's Muslims doing it but they're allowed to get away with insulting everybody because people don't want to upset them as they're pretty much the only group who'll turn to extreme violence if you piss them off. One bloke got sent to prison for a few years after sending ex-Labour MP Luciana Burger some offensive tweets & I can think of plenty of other incidents where people have been punished.

I tried to do a bit of research into the subject a while ago but it was virtually impossible to find out what all the people who get accused of anti-Semitism have actually said but the few things I could find that had been said, did not warrant police investigation IMHO & were just silly words or even just valid criticism of Israel. Do you think I'm anti-Semitic if I say I don't think circumcision of children for religious reasons should be allowed in the UK ?

I don't much like Corbyn & really don't want to defend him but I honestly think this is a media witch hunt against him, helped along by other Labour members. Don't forget that the guy who founded Momentum, the group mainly responsible for his election to leader, was started by a Jew. I can think of a few incidents where his actions or words are very questionable but honestly don't think he hates British Jews & seems to have a good relationship with some of them.

Again, I agree with most of your points but I can see plenty of Jews on the streets of Britain but have also seen a couple of videos of them being abused, generally by Muslims but that can happen to white atheists like me as well. The situation in mainland Europe does seem a lot worse than the UK though & think we all know why.
 
M

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To be honest, I'm not entirely sure what our laws are on Nazism but neo-Nazi groups are swiftly proscribed & being a member can often mean jail just for being part of the banned group. The trouble is, if Nazism were banned, it could only follow that communism should be banned, as it's responsible for more deaths & at least as many atrocities as the Nazis were. Ironically, the cliched Che Guevara t-shirt is still popular with many of the Commie type, woke, SJW crowd, who fail to realise that he hated blacks & homos & may have murdered some too. One day, I shall troll an SJW in a Che t-shirt & see if I can make their head explode.
Of course, I support banning communism in Britain as well. There are many communists who deny atrocities such as the Holodomor, Great Leap Forward, and Cultural Revolution and denying such mass murder is as bad as denying the Holocaust.
 

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Of course, I support banning communism in Britain as well. There are many communists who deny atrocities such as the Holodomor, Great Leap Forward, and Cultural Revolution and denying such mass murder is as bad as denying the Holocaust.

I'm not too keen on banning things tbh, even if I don't like them, it's a slippery slope towards a totalitarian state when only government approved views are allowed. One thing I would ban though is Wahhabism/Salafism, in fact, if I was in charge, I'd probably ban Islam from England completely. It's the only way to prevent terror attacks, paedo rape gangs & other crime. For me, protecting Brits from rape, terror or death is far more important than upsetting a minority of people who have plenty of other Islamic shitholes for them to choose to live in.

"Holocaust denial" has turned into an umbrella term that now also covers people who just want to question the facts. I think there are only a very small number of people who could accurately be called deniers & I question the 6 million number myself, amongst a few other things. I didn't used to, I just accepted it until I spent some considerable time looking at the hard facts that are available & I think that banning questions or discussion about the Holocaust is very wrong & actually quite dangerous. There is no other historical event that's illegal to question, so why is this one ?