Is Kiwi Farms somewhat comparable to the Geth from Mass Effect? - The secret to being able to literally "start a conversation"

[not william stenchever]

I've never played Mass Effect but that doesn't make any sense

The Geth would probably need to have some mechanism analogous to autocracy or democracy to decide which viewpoints lose and which win.

ME 2 does a shit job of explaining this, but I think the way it's supposed to work is that the Geth are able to utilize the concept of direct democracy over local networks and over faster than light communication networks in a way that organics simply cannot match. And not only is it direct democracy, but by analyzing feedback from below, the Geth network can revise potential the courses of action and vote on them revising and re-voting until a solution is reached that is acceptable to most of the network of minds. I know we at KiwiFarms aren't a bunch of machine minds that can crunch numbers until we reach a solution, but people on this site have been able to change my mind on a subject through honest discourse more often than in every other community I've been a part of.

 

[Gustav Schuchardt]

ME 2 does a shit job of explaining this, but I think the way it's supposed to work is that the Geth are able to utilize the concept of direct democracy over local networks and over faster than light communication networks in a way that organics simply cannot match.

Fair enough. The interesting thing is that humans can't really do direct democracy. Athen's attempt was so unstable that the Founding Fathers of America used it as an example of why direct democracy couldn't work.

But that's humans. It's possible an alien or machine civilisation would work differently. Basically you need a more phlegmatic group of entities than the ancient Greeks for direct democracy to work. And with a machine civilisation you could just wire the rules into very low level software.

 

[DragoonSierra]

@GethN7 please grace us with your autistic opinion

 

[GethN7]

ME 2 does a shit job of explaining this, but I think the way it's supposed to work is that the Geth are able to utilize the concept of direct democracy over local networks and over faster than light communication networks in a way that organics simply cannot match. And not only is it direct democracy, but by analyzing feedback from below, the Geth network can revise potential the courses of action and vote on them revising and re-voting until a solution is reached that is acceptable to most of the network of minds. I know we at KiwiFarms aren't a bunch of machine minds that can crunch numbers until we reach a solution, but people on this site have been able to change my mind on a subject through honest discourse more often than in every other community I've been a part of.

@GethN7 please grace us with your autistic opinion

That's a rough summation of the basics, but it gets a tad more nuanced than that.

The Geth would simply be an emotionless consensus if they had no higher sentience, but they attained it as a logical result of their communal learning abilities that greater enhanced their power of reason over time, a fact the Quarians did not anticipate and feared would lead to a Terminator 'turned against their masters' situation if they encouraged it to continue.

Ironically, in their attempts to suppress it, they only further enhanced the sentience of the Geth to the point they learned a crude form of emotions as a result of the fallout of the final attempts the Quarians made to stop their own creation.

As Legion reveals, this caused the direct democracy caused by their communal consensus tendencies to warp a little, and the reason there were a dissident faction of Geth who joined up with Saren and otherwise lashed out at non Geth for reasons other than reasonable self defense was this emotional response causing the consensus to have an irreconcilable divide.

As a result, the dissidents formed their own consensus, split apart from the greater Geth as a whole.

Both the main faction and dissident faction still came to decisions afterwards by communal consensus even with the emotion card causing this factional split, because despite the sentience they gained, it was still limited because the Geth were still hardwired to function as a group (or multiple groups) instead of a mass of individuals, exceptions like Legion being the exception until Mass Effect 3, where concentrated exposure to the Reapers further altered the Geth so they were capable of truly individual thinking, a concept Legion explained was causing his kind to shit the bed hard because unlike him, who had been specially prepared to get used to the concept, they found the idea of each Geth platform having it's own decisions apart from a group vote of any sort to be anathema they couldn't comprehend (even Legion himself was a result of the Geth making a group decision to have him be an ambassador of sorts), and when Legion sacrificed himself, he basically shared his experience with adjusting to the concept with his kind as a whole so they'd quit freaking the fuck out like they had been when the Reapers messed with their protocols initially.

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

Also, aside from our very own Geth's text wall, I would like to add that as presented by Legion, the argument is fallacious and he's just saying techno-babble and nonsense.

Democracy gathers majority consensus and enforces it. This is a wildly reductive take, we have a constitution in the US to protect us from the tyranny of the majority, and most democracies have something similar.

Data is shared between Geth. All viewpoints are considered. Consensus is achieved as data is disseminated

This argument is assuming the only reasons we disagree is incomplete data. That is obviously not the case. So, if we accept that even with complete data there's no guarantee of absolute consensus, the geth method... is exactly the same as democracy's method. They just are able to have their debates way faster.

 

[GethN7]

Also, aside from our very own Geth's text wall, I would like to add that as presented by Legion, the argument is fallacious and he's just saying techno-babble and nonsense.

Democracy gathers majority consensus and enforces it. This is a wildly reductive take, we have a constitution in the US to protect us from the tyranny of the majority, and most democracies have something similar.

This argument is assuming the only reasons we disagree is incomplete data. That is obviously not the case. So, if we accept that even with complete data there's no guarantee of absolute consensus, the geth method... is exactly the same as democracy's method. They just are able to have their debates way faster.

Pretty much.

Democracy only really works because despite the fact we are all emotional beings, democracy generally works because most people accept they have a voice that matters under it or any similar system, and while we might not always agree due to emotions even with all the facts, it's the one system most people throughout history have been able to live with, warts and all, without deciding they hated the result so much that they decided mass revolt via violence was the only recourse to decisions we don't like.

Of course, democracies have broken down so much that mass violent revolt was deemed the only recourse, but it usually took a very severe disagreement that even democracy and all it's advantages and safeguards were deemed unsuitable by a mass majority to remedy in the short or long term for it to be fixed without violence.

As soon as Geth became the slightest bit self aware, they became no better than we humans in dealing with democracy IRL, but, as Corbin aptly put it, they could just come to democratic decisions much faster.

 

[PT 522]

But can I seduce the robot?

 

[The best and greatest]

No. The Geth are a bunch of literal tools who operate via material consensus which they use to come to unanimous agreement. Outside of one anomalous occurrence, The Geth do not feature longstanding dissent or disagreement among themselves. Kiwifarms is closer to a pack of wild orcs trying to write a constitutional document.

 

[Lemmingwise]

we tend not to obfuscate any information for temporary and personal gain.

Speak for yourself. I'm solely here for the temporary personal gain of an occasional laugh and the temporary pleasures of dropping some redpills to keep pumping up my bloviated ego.

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

Kiwi Farms isn't a government that passes policy based on what we talk about. Also there's no geth-like "consensus" because most users don't spend time in every board and so aren't in touch at all with what gets discussed there. Also you shouldn't do shrooms and then post.