Is modern Western culture the best culture? - Also, what is the West?

[Joan Nyan]

In my previous thread about colonialism I asked if it's right for the West to take over and civilize so-called "inferior" cultures. An important part of that question that I didn't ask is "Are some cultures superior to others, and if so is Western culture the best?"

Firstly, I would define the West as Europe (inc. Russia), the US, Canada, and Australia, the last 3 not counting Native peoples who maintain some level of sovereignty. We can discuss that as well. I'm torn on whether Latin America should count or not.

Anyway, I would say there are some pretty good arguments in favor of the West being the best. As far as I can tell, and I'm open to being proven wrong, the West invented the best technology, has the most effective medicine, the most scientific knowledge and innovation, the most prestigious educational facilities, the best armies and weapons, and the most rights, liberties, and freedoms for its people. Sure, the West may not be perfect, and has done some horrible things in the past. However, no culture is perfect and the best doesn't have to be perfect, just better than all the rest.

Consider also that the rest of the world has been influenced by the West more than the West has been influenced by them. For example, some weebs may think glorious empire of Japan is better than the West, but you have to consider how Westernized Japan is today. Your beloved anime began as an imitation of American animation. Their post-occupation economic prosperity began with building imitations of American ships. Their high-performing schools are imitations of Western academia. Unless they want to live in pre-Meiji Japan, weebs idolize an imitation of Western culture. That's just one example of course, but it's applicable to many other parts of the world as well.

Anyway, someone tell me why I'm wrong.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

I think that Latin america should count more than Russia does, just exclude the places with extremely large indigenous populations

I think that the only weakness of western culture is that it doesn't realize its strength and thus inferior cultures are able to conquer it (or at least Sweden and Germany)

 

[The 25th Cyberman]

One should remember that Western culture is not itself a single culture, but a mixture of uncountable different pre-existing ones, which, in my opinion, is a strong argument for immigration.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

One should remember that Western culture is not itself a single culture, but a mixture of uncountable different pre-existing ones, which, in my opinion, is a strong argument for immigration.

I will dispute that it is an argument for immigration. We should have some form of cultural exchange but it should always be done such that western culture is the one in control unlike what is happening in Europe. Although Arab culture has its strengths they will not spread to the west through an occupation

 

[Coldgrip]

Personally, if it allows me to thrive, then yes, it is the best.

 

[Watcher]

"Best" is relative. I know someone who lives in China and he tells me the ruling political party there is extremely popular with young people.

I don't even think Western culture is one homogeneous thing. It varies greatly from country to country. Ontop of that I don't think it's perfect either.

 

[QI 541]

US culture is pretty different from Europe. There's a reason why there have been 0 fascists in power in the US and plenty of fascists in Europe.

 

[Dr. Tremolo]

Japan is Westernized to a large degree, and yet not at the same time. They have a lot of values that are still alien to us to this day. It's the synergy of their culture and Western culture that made them so successful - they've always had work ethic that makes Germans look like bums for example.
Also Russia has flip-flopped between being more and less Western throughout history. And I can say from studying my own and others' history, as well as personal experiences that they have been very un-Western since the establishment of the USSR.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

When I refer to modern Western culture(s), I normally mean of the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, Greece, and other European countries west of the former Iron Curtain. It really depends on the context.

It also seems that Americans typically mean the USA when they refer to the West.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

When I refer to the West I usually include all developed countries plus countries that speak slavic, romance, or germanic languages as their indigenous language

 

[Vitriol]

If you mean liberal democracies with capitalist economies and an independent judiciary, church and state which values individual freedoms over collectivist responsibilities then yes i think that is the best form of state so far. I don't think those things are restricted to western culture though, they are just most common here.

 

[Hat]

Nah we'd be better picking berries and living in tipis.
@Asuka

 

[millais]

Nah we'd be better picking berries and living in tipis.
@Asuka

i also think i would also get more spiritual fulfillment out of disemboweling my enemies and sacrificing their beating hearts to the gods of the harvest than from western organized religion and atheism

 

[OtterParty]

i also think i would also get more spiritual fulfillment out of disemboweling my enemies and sacrificing their beating hearts to the gods of the harvest than from western organized religion and atheism

Do we count worship of the Norse pantheon as part of Western culture / organized religion?

 

[autisticdragonkin]

I actually think that Jewish culture is superior but I don't know whether to call it western

 

[Cosmos]

I would definitely never want to live in a non-Western country, that's for sure. You know, what with my vagina and all. Seriously, Western countries are the most egalitarian ones on the planet. There's still sexism and outright misogyny in places, yes, but on the whole women are perceived as being equal to men and deserving of the same opportunities. At least in Western countries, girls and women can talk to members of the opposite sex freely without worrying about being murdered for tarnishing their family's "honor."

There are also other things I'm grateful to the West for, too many to list really: medicine, clean cities and towns (for the most part; at the very least there are entire departments dedicated to sanitation), safe roads, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of thought, abundant food and safe drinking water, and so on. I know that there are non-Western countries that have these things, but imo Western countries do it the best.

Whenever I hear liberal idiots talk about how gorgeous and beautiful and equal other cultures like Pakistan, India, China, etc are to the West, I'm always just like "Okay, why don't you try living there for six months and get back to me?"

 

[Asuka]

Nah we'd be better picking berries and living in tipis.
@Asuka

Haudenosaunee, Cherokee Nation, Ohio Valley/Pequoit Confederacy, Aztecs, Incas, Mayans...damn those cherry pickers are stupid.

 

[Pac]

In my previous thread about colonialism I asked if it's right for the West to take over and civilize so-called "inferior" cultures. An important part of that question that I didn't ask is "Are some cultures superior to others, and if so is Western culture the best?"

Firstly, I would define the West as Europe (inc. Russia), the US, Canada, and Australia, the last 3 not counting Native peoples who maintain some level of sovereignty. We can discuss that as well. I'm torn on whether Latin America should count or not.

Anyway, I would say there are some pretty good arguments in favor of the West being the best. As far as I can tell, and I'm open to being proven wrong, the West invented the best technology, has the most effective medicine, the most scientific knowledge and innovation, the most prestigious educational facilities, the best armies and weapons, and the most rights, liberties, and freedoms for its people. Sure, the West may not be perfect, and has done some horrible things in the past. However, no culture is perfect and the best doesn't have to be perfect, just better than all the rest.

Consider also that the rest of the world has been influenced by the West more than the West has been influenced by them. For example, some weebs may think glorious empire of Japan is better than the West, but you have to consider how Westernized Japan is today. Your beloved anime began as an imitation of American animation. Their post-occupation economic prosperity began with building imitations of American ships. Their high-performing schools are imitations of Western academia. Unless they want to live in pre-Meiji Japan, weebs idolize an imitation of Western culture. That's just one example of course, but it's applicable to many other parts of the world as well.

Anyway, someone tell me why I'm wrong.

If I may interject =)

I believe you are mixing culture, politics, and philosophy. To better answer your query:

The main contribution of western culture (Western culture as in any culture whose main origins can be traced back to the first Indo-European civilizations) is the advancement of individualism. Individualism is a philosophy that, as the name implies, places the individual of a given society (Any society), first. Thus, making the individual the basic unit of society (Like the "atoms" of a more complex system). This is what leads to the creation of things such as freedom of speech, equal rights, property and ownership, copyright protection protection, secularism, egalitarianism, capitalism, etc.

These things provides the members of a given society with the means and tools to thrive more dynamically. Since all the members of a society are considered equal, they all have the same chances and opportunities, making wealth and success a direct result of an individual's own effort. Unless there's corruption in the government, or corporations, or lack of education, or any of the modern issues that we endure on a daily basis. And all of these things, in turn, result in the development of art, technology, science, politics, etc. All the things we take for granted in the West.

In western societies, individualism thrived and developed faster than any other societies in the world. And, as Europe colonized other countries, individualism spread throughout the world; albeit, with less prominence. This is why countries where European influence was less prominent, and less extended, have a "lesser" advancement of individualistic policies. For example, Latin America is, in general and save for a few exceptions, considered part of the West. However, because of the uneven patterns of European migration, and the fact that most of latin america became independent after the 19th century, Most countries are in the "developing " countries status. Not as advanced as a developed nation (The U.S.) ,but definitely not as fucked as the third world (Africa).

Anyways, the thing about societies, and this has been proven time and time again in both, social and natural sciences, is that they first start as collectivist societies (the opposite of an individualistic society), and slowly, but surely, they start to move towards individualism.

To put it in a more simple way, an individualistic society is what any given society will eventually become or move towards. As a society matures, it starts valuing it's members more and more.

So, take for example, the case of China. This country remained a collectivist society for milenia. It wasn't until the 70's or 80's that it moved away from communism (Full on collectivism), and became more individualistic; it opened itself for trade, gave rights to women, allowed for private property, and even eliminated it's one child policy. This is because China, as a whole, stopped valuing the collective (The whole, the majority group) less, and started valuing the individual (The basic unit of society, all groups). That is, it started to become more "Liberal". It is moving towards full on individualism (Like Canada, of France). When it reaches full individualism, it will practically be the same as ny other western nation. It remains communist China in name only. The same goes for Vietnam.

Another example is Mexico, Ecuador, Perú, or Chile. These countries started - As in when they became independent - as individualistic societies (They had huge influence from Europe and the U.S.) , but, due to internal and external pressure, they remained, for most of the 20th century, in an arrested development kind of state. In the case of these Latin American societies, they considered the family as the single basic unit of society, rather than the individual itself, which, in itself is like a 2nd hand individualism. This meant that its progression towards full individualism was halted, and therefore, things such as leftist policies, socialism, anarchy, etc. Emerged. It wasn't until the end of the 20th century that this countries resumed their progression towards individualism. And this is why you see countries like Chile having Excellent quality of life today, or mexico embracing full liberal economics.

Now, in the case of Japan, or South Korea, countries who were heavily collectivist, they changed, and developed faster than China because they had direct foreign intervention. They literally had to suffer catastrophic wars to rebuild themselves with the aid of already developed (individualistic) countries. They are a special snowflake in a way. Lol.

Countries that are still very much collectivist are Islamic countries. For example, Afghanistan, or Iraq. Their laws are made for the majority group (Muslims), and, therefore, they have very little in terms of social rights (Women, LGBT people, non Muslims, etc. Are 2nd hand citizens) and development.

Countries that are very slowly moving away from collectivism are Iran (Snails pace. They actually regreseD since the 70's), Egypt, Saudi Arabia. They still have Sharia law and stuff like that, but are becoming increasingly capitalistic (Ironic). One step forward two steps back.

Countries that have regrese (Went from individualism to collectivism) are Venezuela, Brazil (They enjoyed the spoils while they lasted), Argentina, and Bolivia. These countries aren't full collectivist, but they sure as hell went back by a lot.

So, in conclusion, it's not that Western culture is best or more "advanced" by itself, but rather, that it was lucky enough to let individualism develop and thrive faster than other regions. The West used to be regresiva; Ancient Rome, Mesopotamia, the Greeks, Germanic tribes, Fascism, Nazis, Communism, etc. We just were lucky, really.

What is next after individualism fully matures, and eventually becomes obsolete? Well, I don't know. The extent of my knowledge is limited in that regard. What I do know, is that the next stage is either a regression to collectivism (Making the while process cyclical), or a mix of Collectivism and Individualism.

EDIT: Forgot to add: The development of successful philosophies and ideologies such as individualism/collectivism IS NOT RELATED TO RACE. So no, the "White Race Superiority" doesn't have a leg to stand on. This stage by stage progression of societies (Any society) is a natural event. It happens regardless of race, or religion. The natural sciences prove if.

You can take a colony of X species of animals and you will see that, through generations, their social and hierarchical interactions shift from collectivist to individualism. Ants, Dogs, Monkeys, humans, etc. they have all been tested and replicated in laboratories and real life.

ALSO! There is SO much more that I ommited. This is just a brief explanation of the whole Individualism and collectivism topic. But feel free to ask any questions.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

Anyways, the thing about societies, and this has been proven time and time again in both, social and natural sciences, is that they first start as collectivist societies (the opposite of an individualistic society), and slowly, but surely, they start to move towards individualism.

Please support this.

To put it in a more simple way, an individualistic society is what any given society will eventually become or move towards. As a society matures, it starts valuing it's members more and more.

How is this individualism? In western society this shift makes the west value its members less as seen in Sweden.

This is because China, as a whole, stopped valuing the collective (The whole, the majority group) less, and started valuing the individual (The basic unit of society, all groups).

You are saying now that this also involves stopping valuing something. Could this change be potentially a negative one

Countries that are very slowly moving away from collectivism are Iran (Snails pace. They actually regreseD since the 70's), Egypt, Saudi Arabia. They still have Sharia law and stuff like that, but are becoming increasingly capitalistic (Ironic). One step forward two steps back.

Countries that have regrese (Went from individualism to collectivism) are Venezuela, Brazil (They enjoyed the spoils while they lasted), Argentina, and Bolivia. These countries aren't full collectivist, but they sure as hell went back by a lot.

So, in conclusion, it's not that Western culture is best or more "advanced" by itself, but rather, that it was lucky enough to let individualism develop and thrive faster than other regions. The West used to be regresiva; Ancient Rome, Mesopotamia, the Greeks, Germanic tribes, Fascism, Nazis, Communism, etc. We just were lucky, really.

You just said that countries regress which contradicts what you said earlier

Forgot to add: The development of successful philosophies and ideologies such as individualism/collectivism IS NOT RELATED TO RACE. So no, the "White Race Superiority" doesn't have a leg to stand on. This stage by stage progression of societies (Any society) is a natural event. It happens regardless of race, or religion. The natural sciences prove if.

Please provide citations

You can take a colony of X species of animals and you will see that, through generations, their social and hierarchical interactions shift from collectivist to individualism. Ants, Dogs, Monkeys, humans, etc. they have all been tested and replicated in laboratories and real life.

I am extremely skeptical of this. It seems really ridiculous to think that humans are fundamentally behaviorally similar to ants or even dogs. And this doesn't support you

 

[Asuka]

It's a shame that these specific groupings out of the how many millions of Indians that lived on the Americas spent more time discovering that zero exists and chopping off the heads of women to appease the corn gods than they did studying medicine.

lol "Deep Thoughts".

Please be mindful when challenging someone's opinions and beliefs.