Is Murder Justifiable? -

[gr33n]

Everyone always says self-defense but what crosses the line of self-defense? I understand hurting someone so that they are no longer in a position to hurt you back but then there is a point where someone uses excessive force and instead of defending oneself becomes the aggressor.

Even in non-self-defense situations could murder be excused? A couple of examples
- Killing a dictator who ran a country into the ground
- Killing a rapist to protect the public
- Euthanasia ( Killing someone who is severely ill, with their permission, to end their pain) etc

 

[Dreamer]

The answer to your question would be case specific and preferably decided by law.
Now tell me.
Who do you want to kill and why?

 

[The best and greatest]

You can justify anything you want to if you're smart enough.

 

[gr33n]

The answer to your question would be case specific and preferably decided by law.
Now tell me.
Who do you want to kill and why?

lol a smart killer wouldn't reveal their plans on the internet. I was rewatching the anime death parade (SPOILER ) and a corrupt cop lets a guy assault a woman so he has an excuse to kill the guy. Although he shouldn't have taken the law into his own hands, was it a good enough reason for him to kill the assaulter?

 

[TFT-A9]

legal provisions already exist for justifiable homicide

though I am curious who you're planning to kill justifiably, newfriend

 

[An Account]

Murder is by definition a non-justified, pre-meditated homicide. So no, ‘murder’ cannot be justified.

As for homicide? My opinion mirrors Penn and Teller’s. It’s only justified when your life is in danger or you’re at war.

 

[Dreamer]

lol a smart killer wouldn't reveal their plans on the internet. I was rewatching the anime death parade (SPOILER ) and a corrupt cop lets a guy assault a woman so he has an excuse to kill the guy. Although he shouldn't have taken the law into his own hands, was it a good enough reason for him to kill the assaulted?

Baitng people into committing a crime so that you might kill them is equal to premeditated murder in most countries i know of, intentionally letting a crime happen is also a major breach of conduct for law enforcement.
If you want to bait somebody into going on your property so that you might shoot them in self defense, don't be like boogie and try to make it less public. Be subtile.

 

[Not Really Here]

Depends entirely on the ruleset.
Modern belief is that justifiably depends on legality.
At one time community standards applied "there was a man that needed killing" defense.
Then there are the moral standards that change depending on location and religious influences.

What standard would like to use?

 

[gr33n]

Baitng people into committing a crime so that you might kill them is equal to premeditated murder in most countries i know of, intentionally letting a crime happen is also a major breach of conduct for law enforcement.
If you want to bait somebody into going on your property so that you might shoot them in self defense, don't be like boogie and try to make it less public. Be subtile.

sorry i should have been more clear. The officer kills people the law doesn't prosecute because of obscure reasons. The murdered guy had a history of stalking multiple women. Even if the officer was not watching he would have committed the crime anyway

 

[MrJokerRager]

YES.

Yeah I am dressed up as the joker, why do you ask?

 

[Dreamer]

sorry i should have been more clear. The officer kills people the law doesn't prosecute because of obscure reasons. The murdered guy had a history of stalking multiple women. Even if the officer was not watching he would have committed the crime anyway

He should have arrested him before he did it then based on a reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing and a history of criminal activity.
Vigilante justice is rarely morally pure imo, most times its just a thinly disguised crime of passion, even in media.
I actually watched death parade and i don't remember that, what episode is this?

 

[Florence Sargent]

Socially we excuse self-defenseless murder all the time. Just look at the comment section of any child rapist being murdered on YT. Legally as the state or body of law we also agree to murder people (death penalty) without self-defense under the form of 'punishment'.

So I would say the answer is yes and always has been. It's just that now in these modern times we like are murder with a little more paperwork and stamps.

 

[Massa's Little Buckie]

We live in a society.

 

[Brahma]

Murder is by definition a non-justified, pre-meditated homicide. So no, ‘murder’ cannot be justified.

As for homicide? My opinion mirrors Penn and Teller’s. It’s only justified when your life is in danger or you’re at war.

I think there are premeditated homicides that would be prosecuted as murder that I think are justifiable.


Someone rapes and kills your kids, and you spend their time in prison planning a kidnap and execution for their release, you're going to prison for murder if you do it.


The state would be right to do so but I think your actions, while illegal, are perfectly right and natural

 

[crocodilian]

As a general rule you want to avoid cultivating a society where citizens may kill in order to rectify a grievance, as what constitutes a "murder-worthy grievance" is highly subjective. You may believe it's ideal to kill a rapist, but other people might not, and this ideological disparity will occur countless times and inevitably lead to civil unrest. This is the entire reason police forces came into existence; they are (ideally) held to a strict protocol and perform in strict accordance with the letter of the law. The law itself may be agreed upon (or changed/abolished) by the population (or more accurately their representatives) while the police do all of the heavy lifting.

 

[Sage In All Fields]

I'll assume you just mean killing rather than murder.

Everyone always says self-defense but what crosses the line of self-defense?

Self-defence is the removal of an imminent threat to your life or your property.

I understand hurting someone so that they are no longer in a position to hurt you back but then there is a point where someone uses excessive force and instead of defending oneself becomes the aggressor.

You should generally be proportional but if you defend yourself and you happen to use too much force that's still on them for endangering you.

- Killing a dictator who ran a country into the ground

If the dictator is not Muslim and they are capable of replacing him with minimal bloodshed and anarchy go for it, otherwise he is the lesser of two evils. In Arabic this is called 'khuruj al-hakim' which literally means 'removal of the ruler'.

- Killing a rapist to protect the public

So long as the justice system is functional he should be referred to it.

- Euthanasia ( Killing someone who is severely ill, with their permission, to end their pain) etc

No. People shouldn't get a choice in whether or not they die.

 

[Dreamer]

I'll assume you just mean killing rather than murder.

Self-defence is the removal of an imminent threat to your life or your property.

You should generally be proportional but if you defend yourself and you happen to use too much force that's still on them for endangering you.

If the dictator is not Muslim and they are capable of replacing him with minimal bloodshed and anarchy go for it, otherwise he is the lesser of two evils. In Arabic this is called 'khuruj al-hakim' which literally means 'removal of the ruler'.

So long as the justice system is functional he should be referred to it.

No. People shouldn't get a choice in whether or not they die.

Im kinda split on euthanasia, maybe there could be a system that you can register to if you're really feeling like letting go and then you have to come for a few scheduled visits through a period of something like a year or 2 and only then if you still want to do it the government can make that happen?
My thinking is that you should let people do whatever they want but also not let them make rash decisions they won't have a chance to regret.

 

[Clockwork_PurBle]

OP, the first two examples you give arguably qualify as self-defense.

If I killed a rapist that was walking free for some reason, I was self-defending for myself and the populace.

If I killed Kim Jong Un or whatever I would be defending the people of North Korea who can't defend themselves.

 

[toothless_banana]

Only have to justify it to yourself enough to sleep, otherwise, don't get caught.

 

[Sage In All Fields]

My thinking is that you should let people do whatever they want but also not let them make rash decisions they won't have a chance to regret.

People change their minds about things with time and with experience, you can never tell if they'll regret something before the thing has happened because the other experiences that would change your mind simply won't happen. People who try to kill themselves often report sudden regret as they reach the point of no-return (such as kicking the chair out, or letting go), your body does not want to die no matter how 'painless' you think you can make it.