Is Reagan actually "conservative" by today's standards? - And why is he beloved?

The Last Stand

All I got was a rock.
True & Honest Fan
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Many conservatives nowadays look at Reagan as their favorite president because of his "conservative" values and love of the American people.

However, as @Chichan pointed out at one point, he's not really "conservative" as people imagine him to be. One example is giving 2.7 million undocumented immigrants amnesty in 1986. Or raising taxes in 1983 and 1986.

How would you view Reagan now?
 

Otis Boi

plushy Cow man extraordinaire
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Are you trying to seriously argue that conservatives have never spoke out of both sides of their mouths. I think people remember president for what they want them to be. It is the here and now that actually matters because out views are constantly changing. The only constant is politician's will lie to anyone because they see most as sheep
 

Krokodil Overdose

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Reagan is remembered most fondly as a Cold Warrior- "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" While his amnesty was, in hindsight, an unprecedented disaster that the United States will in all likelihood never recover from, 1) the prospect of global thermonuclear annihilation puts a different perspective on it at the time and 2) the hard left still had a hard lock on The Narrative, so observations like "demography is destiny" were politically verboten to the right despite being trivially true.
 

Marco Fucko

I'm going to drive home and do some accounting.
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His conservative reputation comes from things like reducing federal spending on welfare programs, firing striking air traffic controller union members as well as de-certifying PATCO, and starting the war on drugs. Not to mention being the administrative figurehead for the 80s economy.

No President really upholds their ideals/rhetoric when actually in office, Obama continued and expanded state powers violating citizens' rights despite liberals cultivating an anti-authority image throughout the Bush administration.
 

Syaoran Li

Clown World on PCP
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Reagan mainly gets his glowing praise from so many conservatives for two reasons.

The first was his image as a Cold War tough guy who was tough on communism abroad and tough on crime at home. The War on Drugs was a massive mistake, and while it technically started under Nixon, it didn't really take off until Reagan.

The second is because Reagan was the harbinger of the Religious Right and Neocon paradigms that dominated the GOP in the 1990's and 2000's. The Satanic Panic and the Moral Majority happened under his watch and so did the rise of mass corporatism and globalism.

It really wasn't until Trump hit the scene that the Republican Party even began to step away from the platform of "Fundies and Neocons" that started in earnest under Reagan and even then you still have neocon holdouts on the federal level and the Religious Right still has regional power in certain states, even if it is slowly waning.

It will be interesting to see what the Republican Party will look like after Trump. Much like Reagan in 1980, Trump ran as a populist, albeit on a different political platform.
 

The Last Stand

All I got was a rock.
True & Honest Fan
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Take it what you will, but Trump and Reagan have similarities between each other.

he War on Drugs was a massive mistake, and while it technically started under Nixon, it didn't really take off until Reagan.
Nixon was a corrupt politician; Reagan capitalized on the War on Drugs during the Iran War (if you believe that sort of thing.) It did hit urban youth hard, which prophesied the Black unemployment and poverty rate we see today.
 

Franjevina

kiwifarms.net
Blacks are unemployed and poor not because war on drugs but because they are fucking monkeys .

Government certainly didn't force them to use crack and be ghetto thugs .

As for Reagan and today standards ... well as someone said people who stormed beaches in Normandy 1944 would be considered nazis today by their cultural and social beliefs ,so it's rather pointless to look through " today standards " at anything .
 

Manwithn0n0men

kiwifarms.net
So when your president you can do 3 big things (not always the things of your choice) Reagan understood this.

If a policy wasnt one of his big things he'd cut a deal to keep his big things on the table
 

The best and greatest

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Government certainly didn't force them to use crack and be ghetto thugs .
Nobody said "The government FORCED young blacks to do drugs and be thugs." Doesn't mean Gov policy can't have knock-on effects with regards to the wider world. Putting young men into prison on drug charges had the effect of turning them into hardened criminals and expanding the influence of the criminal underground. Its pretty telling that when drug epidemics sweep through middle-class America today, we no longer talk of putting users in prison.
 

3119967d0c

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They may have been druggies but by-and-large they were non-violent until they went to prison which expanded criminal drug gangs by allowing them to operate and recruit out of the prison system.
Yes, the American police go around arresting a statistically random sample of black men and shaking them down for drugs, and then make sure they get sent to prison.

It certainly isn't a thing for violent thugs who may have committed anything up to and including murders to be taken down on drug charges, because drugs are hard evidence and the pigs don't need to worry about them deciding/being persuaded not to snitch come trial.
 
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The best and greatest

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Yes, the American police go around arresting a statistically random sample of black men and shaking them down for drugs, and then make sure they get sent to prison.
I don't think I said anything like that. Also its pretty rare in the US when a police officer "Makes sure you go to prison." Usually that's a judge's job.

It certainly isn't a thing for violent thugs who may have committed anything up to and including murders to be taken down on drug charges, because drugs are hard evidence and the pigs don't need to worry about them deciding/being persuaded not to snitch come trial.
Maybe that happens but that doesn't really undo the point I was making.
 

3119967d0c

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Maybe that happens but that doesn't really undo the point I was making.
About half of 'nonviolent drug offenders' have histories of convictions for violence, or other serious crimes.

And that's just the people who can actually be convicted of violent crimes with a no-snitchin' culture in the ghetto.

Obviously, there are a few drug offenders who are imprisoned without being serious shitbirds. But they are a small minority.

Letting these people roam around committing crimes is not a solution. Society has to be corrected. I mean, one could make an argument that sentences should be harsher for worse drugs like marijuana and opiates rather than less bad ones like amphetamines and cocaine, but fiddling round with sentences doesn't address the problem of why people are taking drugs in the first place.
 

Rice Is Ready

Obamanomicon
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Nobody said "The government FORCED young blacks to do drugs and be thugs." Doesn't mean Gov policy can't have knock-on effects with regards to the wider world. Putting young men into prison on drug charges had the effect of turning them into hardened criminals and expanding the influence of the criminal underground. Its pretty telling that when drug epidemics sweep through middle-class America today, we no longer talk of putting users in prison.
The average black teen behaves like a hardened criminal without ever having been in jail.
 

The best and greatest

kiwifarms.net
About half of 'nonviolent drug offenders' have histories of convictions for violence, or other serious crimes.
That's fine, many states have something akin to "Gravity score" laws which will keep those people in prison, but what about the other half? It isn't as if the US judicial system isn't robust enough to take a person's criminal history into account when sentencing so why not?


Obviously, there are a few drug offenders who are imprisoned without being serious shitbirds. But they are a small minority.
How small?
 
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