Israel/Palestine

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moosesgalore

dannie "alahu snackbar ibn ubeter habab it" pham
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Israel's main enemy is internal to Palestine and is of their own making. Suppress people, never concede anything, take more, and occupy their land illegally and see if they don't turn to radical beliefs. They created the problem and refuse to solve it as a matter of maintaining a grip on military aid from the USA. Israel is one big ugly first world nation with a lot of barb-wire and police state behavior to keep the third-world detritus separated and oppressed. They are just as much whiners as their Muslim neighbors, they just have a rationale that Westerners prefer, "muh Holocaust."

Neither side has clean hands but Israel doesn't strap bomb vests to children and send them towards Palestinian soldiers so I go with Israel.
Yeah they just let settler militias- many full of non-ethnic Jewish converts from Eastern European shitholes where murder is sport- to, SURPRISE, rape and murder Palestinean kids, and the IDF just turns a blind eye to it.
 

Lugal

Fresh Prince of Bel-Ur
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Neither side has clean hands but Israel doesn't strap bomb vests to children and send them towards Palestinian soldiers so I go with Israel.
That seems like a false equivalency to me. There are no Palestinian 'soldiers', because there is no Palestinian state. Palestinians as a whole can't be held responsible for the actions of some particular groups of militants.

Israel, on the other hand, is a modern, centralized state that should most assuredly be held responsible for the actions of it's armed forces, as well as the actions of the settlers that it defends and enables.

Of course, if were talking Israelis and Palestinians as opposed to Israel and Palestine, I'm sure as a non-religious American from the Northeast, I'd get along much better with Israelis.
 

Clown Doll

His own Free Bitch
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Palestinians as a whole can't be held responsible for the actions of some particular groups of militants.
Palestinians democratically elected Hamas to represent them, and Hamas' complete opposition to a peaceful solution is one of the major stumbling blocks whenever a question of peace in the region is concerned. If Palestinians continue to vote for an organization that is Hell-bent on waging war with Israel, then they're equally accountable for the actions of Hamas as Israeli citizens are of Israel's.
 

AnOminous

I hated Woody Woodpecker and Scooby-Doo.
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I view the ethical dilemma of Israel/Palestine not as a way opposing parties can come to a reasonable solution but how a modern nation-state can ethically deal with an implacable enemy with no motive other than their utter destruction without becoming monsters themselves.
 

Lugal

Fresh Prince of Bel-Ur
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I view the ethical dilemma of Israel/Palestine not as a way opposing parties can come to a reasonable solution but how a modern nation-state can ethically deal with an implacable enemy with no motive other than their utter destruction without becoming monsters themselves.
Ok now you're just demonizing Palestinians. Israel was imposed on them, of course they want to destroy it.
 

AnOminous

I hated Woody Woodpecker and Scooby-Doo.
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Ok now you're just demonizing Palestinians. Israel was imposed on them, of course they want to destroy it.

That's fucking bullshit. Name a single other country in the world where their constitution literally says that destroying some neighboring country is their reason for existence.

Oh, also, Palestine isn't even a country. Israel is.
 

Lugal

Fresh Prince of Bel-Ur
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That's fucking bullshit. Name a single other country in the world where their constitution literally says that destroying some neighboring country is their reason for existence.

Oh, also, Palestine isn't even a country. Israel is.
Do you fail to understand why the Palestinians object to Israel existing? I don't agree with them, but I can understand it.

And that last line was just juvenile.
 

Clown Doll

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Do you fail to understand why the Palestinians object to Israel existing? I don't agree with them, but I can understand it..
They have a possibility of voting/supporting entities that would be willing to negotiate instead of demanding the destruction of Israel. Israel has no obligation to sit in the negotiation table with an entity that's unwilling to compromise and the people who support Hamas will reap what they sow when they get #TYCED by Israel as part of the actions taken in response to Hamas'. It sucks for the people on both sides who are supporting peace(or would at least be willing to negotiate for peace), but the entity that is currently in power in Palestine(Hamas) can hardly be seen as the more reasonable party in the conflict even with the dubious shit that Israel has done.
 
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Lugal

Fresh Prince of Bel-Ur
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I'm not saying the Palestinians have been reasonable, they haven't, least of all Hamas. I'm just saying that I understand why they have an unreasonable antipathy to a state that was established against their will on land that they consider their own. They're hardly the first people to act irrationally in the name of nationalism.
 

DuskEngine

watermelon seller
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Sep 27, 2014
They have a possibility of voting/supporting entities that would be willing to negotiate instead of demanding the destruction of Israel. Israel has no obligation to sit in the negotiation table with an entity that's unwilling to compromise and the people who support Hamas will reap what they sow when they get #TYCED by Israel as part of the actions taken in response to Hamas'. It sucks for the people on both sides who are supporting peace, but the entity that is currently in power in Palestine(Hamas) can hardly be seen as the more reasonable party in the conflict even with the dubious shit that Israel has done.

The bulk of the Palestinian territories in the West Bank are still governed by the pro-two-state National Authority though. Only Hamas, which controls the relatively small Gaza strip, are opposed to the existence of Israel at all.

Now, of course, the two-state solution made no solid progress in the period after the Camp David agreements, either. Netanyahu's government has demonstrated little interest in either moving the two-state solution more feasible or slowing down the settlement-building, and until either side makes some overtures towards that end, the situation is only going to worsen.