So just start with the first one and keep going up?
It's a GUNDAAAAAAAAM. Your general Gundam natter thread! -
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So just start with the first one and keep going up?
Yeah. Starting at the beginning is a radical new paradigm in watching stuff.
Indeed.Now anyone got a favorite gundam?Mine is GF13-021NG Gundam Spiegel.
Unicorn largely ended up being a massive merch-pusher while simultaneously fan wanking the earlier UC stuff super-hard (I mean, why else would they make ANOTHER Zeong when later UC series already establish MS size decreases past UC 100?). Plus, the whole thing felt like it was trying to rehash the Char/Amuro dynamic in a way bypassing their deaths in Char's Counterattack with Full Frontal littrally being a Char copy (who somehow got the idea to impersonate Char because of lingering psychoframe essences or something, I still don't get it) and Bag-kid having so much Amuro symbolism to the point even the Gundam was an Amuro reference (apparently Amuro's personal emblem included unicorn imagery for some bizarre reason).
The weird thing with all three of those series was that their overall plots...pretty much were wholesale copies of earlier UC stuff as well. SEED was largely a rehash of the original cartoon with names of suits changed around (or given hilariously stupid acronym meanings - "Zodiac Appointed Keeper of Unity" my ass), 00 was unabashedly Zeta's plot, and AGE was trying to shove the entire UC timeline from 0079 through 0093 into a single series where the bad guys were Martian communists instead of Zeon's spacenoid facists.
In fairness, though, at least you always had some clue as to what any of those series was doing - which can not be said of G-Recon-whatever. Supposedly set in the UC so far into the future that there's no reason to have made it a UC timeline instance in the first place (except maybe purge G-Savior's non-cannon existence some more), I can't even remember what the main plot of that show even was.
I disagree - Shinn wasn't really the protagonist considering he was working for the bad guys, his characterization was inconsistent with his actions, and he is probably the worst Gundam pilot of any key Gundam series in history.
Seriously, just take a step back for a moment and look at what Destiny Gundam, the titular suit of that sequel series, was packing beyond a standard rifle and shield - boomerang beam swords, a LARGER anti-ship beam sword, head vulcans, palm blasters, anti-ship BFG, and, uh, whatever the hell the glowing wings did. The Gundam wiki even mentions how the suit's own model number is intentionally incorrect regarding its maximum rated strength being a rank lower than it legally should be, so this suit is so powerful it's very existence in the show's universe is unimaginably illegal.
And what does Shinn constantly do with something that godly? He goes straight to taking out the giant sword and trying to hack all his enemies with it in close combat, often losing it in the process. Then, in his crowning moment of stupidity, he tries to catch Infinite Justice's beam sword with Destiny's hands for no reason (as opposed to, say, moving back to increase distance and then firing with his ranged weapons at the enemy suit that's NOT GOT ANY RANGED WEAPONS TO FIRE BACK WITH), getting Destiny's hands blown up and thus rendering all weapons Destiny has as inoperable beyond the head vulcans...which subsequently are also lost when IJ destroys the head entirely. I can't think of any other time a titular gundam ever was defeated by its own pilot's sheer humiliating incompetence more than the enemy having had to try defeating it.
You think 0080 is better than 08th MS Team? The latter's famous Gouf Custom fight sequence alone trumps 0080, plus 08th has characters who are likable for the most part (granted that's personal opinion but I just can't stand anybody in 0080).
I'm partial to RX-78GP-02a Gundam Physalis (the one firing nukes out of a bazooka), ASW-G-11 Gundam Gusion (the original massive green, hammer swinging version), and X80-30B Beginning 30 Gundam (out of sheer visual appeal)
Also some guy is subbing the Gaia Gear audio drama on Youtube. I still haven't really checked it out yet, though.
I dig the concept art for Mamoru Nagano's Double Zeta design, too. I love Nagano's stuff in general- Five Star Stories is probably my favorite manga. It's basically hair metal fairy tale Dune but with supermodels and giant robots, and it's fucking wonderful for it.
Think 'What if Gundam was printed in Heavy Metal Magazine?' and you kinda have the idea.
0080 definitely strikes me as being one of the better UC OVAs- it's not really like any other entry, and the focus is pretty small, so you get a really good feeling of all the characters. Hell, I thought all the cast was pretty likeable, too, or at least relatable, and the animation was almost as good as 0083's. Hell, the anti-war message of the franchise is probably best invoked in 0080, too, which is pretty neat.
Yeah, start from the beginning. Macross is actually pretty heavy on continuity- and a lot of themes and ideas from previous shows are built on by the next. Even the franchise's oddball, Macross 7, actually makes quite a bit of sense when you think about the implications of the first series.
Probably the nu Gundam, or the Victory V2.
I dig the concept art for Mamoru Nagano's Double Zeta design, too. I love Nagano's stuff in general- Five Star Stories is probably my favorite manga. It's basically hair metal fairy tale Dune but with supermodels and giant robots, and it's fucking wonderful for it.
Think 'What if Gundam was printed in Heavy Metal Magazine?' and you kinda have the idea.
It's not really that uncommon of an opinion, is it?
0080 definitely strikes me as being one of the better UC OVAs- it's not really like any other entry, and the focus is pretty small, so you get a really good feeling of all the characters. Hell, I thought all the cast was pretty likeable, too, or at least relatable, and the animation was almost as good as 0083's. Hell, the anti-war message of the franchise is probably best invoked in 0080, too, which is pretty neat.
There's an argument that each arc of AGE represents a different era of the Gundam franchise. Flit being UC, Asemu being 90s Gundam (G, Wing, and X), and Kio's arc representing modern Gundam (SEED / Destiny and 00). It's an argument that works strongest with Kio.
A faction from Venus successfully infiltrates and pushes earth to war because they feel that humanity has stagnated and war will push humanity forward again. It wasn't that complicated.
Yes. 08th MS Team falls apart in the second half. To be fair to 08th MS Team, the director died.
I actually don't get to talk about Gundam series with a lot of people, but what few prior experiences I've had it's generally been thought 0080 kind of sucked due to flat characterization and not enough giant robot fighting (pretty much the big bad Kampfer does nothing but blow up a few GMs and cars before getting ripped apart by Gundam Alex's forearm guns in seconds) to make up for it, while 08th MS Team was good because there ALWAYS was stuff going on with the robots and both Feddies and Zeon had characters well rounded enough to show things were not black and white morality.
Granted, general consensus also was that the final episode of 08th MS team is so bizarrely unrelated and nonsensical that pretty much you can just forget it exists, given the plot kind of already ended in the second-to-last episode, while shoving that "Battle in Three Dimensions" short into the earlier half of the OVA to preserve episode count.
It's been a while since I saw 0080, though, so might bother watching it again to see if my opinions will be different.
Huh, that's...actually kind of funny in how well that works. It was already uncanny how dead-on each part of AGE reflects the UC eras it uses (AGE-1/original UC is decent, AGE-2/Zeta everybody loves, AGE-3/ZZ Gundam everybody hates for nonsensical plot and being horribly rushed, and AGE-FX/CCA kind of just...exists), but Gundam as a whole is slightly frightening given the scope.
Though it also goes to show that the 90's series were universally amazing despite being the most radical departures from established formula at the time so I'm A-OK with that, since I love me some G Gundam and After War!
...huh. I swear I kind of remembered that, but at the same time thought I was confusing it for the plot of Metal Gear Rising. Thanks for helping clarify that.
Really? Damn, didn't even know that happened.
And while I do agree the plot in the second half is weaker, as an excuse for the great robot fighting was enough for me (and the sappy love crap at least was suppressed long enough that it didn't bother me enough to ruin that.)
I also do not apologize for this, which pretty much is the only reason to watch the second half of 08th MS team.
The original series is dubbed in English and complete for free on YouTube...I think (haven't checked in a while). Worth starting there if you want to experience the original, if somewhat dated, series.
The current series is Iron Blooded Orphans, which you'll have to track down decent subs of online, but so far has been extremely good and I think the only series where the mass-produced grunt suits aren't immediately slaughtered wholesale by the main Gundam, which is extremely refreshing, personally.
Check out the 0079 movies first. Then watch Zeta, Double Zeta, and Char's Counterattack.
From there, you can basically watch the rest whenever. The only one you should see most the franchise beforehand is Turn A Gundam, since it's a pretty big celebration of the franchise up to that point..
Gundam Wing sucks balls worse than any Gundam series.
Which part? TV Wing is decent, Eternal Waltz...happened, and the side-stories just plain suck (Niel's Impulse is just mind-numbingly pointless and Frozen Teardrop is worse), at least in my opinion.
The Neo Zeong was supposed to be a superweapon, something that Zeon and Axis Zeon both had far too many of. Their standard tactical doctrine was similar to that of Germany in WWII; create exceptionally powerful, high-performance prototypes that consumed far too much manpower to construct and maintain instead of sticking with one reliable design and making modular, resource-efficient copies of it when a new variant was needed. The EFA had the GM series, then the Jegan series, both of which had countless variants and were for the most part made with interchangeable components. Zeon on the other hand was always the technological leader, cranking out prototype after prototype, pushing the envelope in the design arena while being completely outpaced in the production arena.
As for Full Frontal, the whole idea is that he is essentially a cyber-Newtype artificially implanted with Char's memories and personality in order to continue serving as a figurehead for the Neo-Zeon Remnants. As the series notes, both Anaheim Electronics and the EFA itself has a vested interest in continuing the war as long as possible to justify their budgets and make ridiculous amounts of money selling equipment to both sides. The EFA in particular benefit from having the Neo-Zeon remnants around, as it means they have a convenient scapegoat to point at whenever they need a new battleship or have to send troops into a colony.
Look at what happens to the EFA after they finally defeat the Neo-Zeon Remnants. Over the next thirty years or so they become completely technologically stagnant, still using pathetically outdated Jegans when Cosmo Babylonia comes a'knocking with their Beam Shield equipped mobile suits. By the reign of the Jupiter Empire, they're so atrophied from their Zeon-era glory that the defense of Earth is left up to a rag-tag band of colonial militia.
If I had to pick a bone with Unicorn, it's that I don't like the way it constantly questions the obvious. The final episode spends about ten minutes philosophizing over whether or not Newtypes actually exist, while arguably the most powerful Newtype who ever lived is busy fighting alongside another Newtype, against a Newtype whose existence is made possible by the Newtype-reactive material his cockpit is lined with. It's only one character, but the argument is so ridiculous that it just doesn't make any contextual sense at all.
Besides that, I really liked Banagher. He was everything somebody like Kamille should've been; humble, meek, determined, inventive and willing to do what had to be done while never losing the ability to search for alternatives. His entire argument to Neo Zeon is essentially that they always have a choice, and that clinging to old atrocities and committing new ones in the name of avenging long-dead comrades simply perpetuates the pointless cycle of violence. Full Frontal represents the worst aspects of the war; the nihilistic, cynical and completely goal-oriented mindset of people who view soldiers as statistics and embody 'the ends justify the means'. Banagher is his perfect counterpoint, representing a person who was put through the worst war has to offer and still managing to cling to his humanity.
SEED certainly started out as a retread of the original series, there can be no argument about that. But the plot diverged about halfway through, and became its own story. It doesn't hesitate to portray both sides of the war as morally bankrupt extremists, and the conclusion to the first series is extremely bittersweet. SEED doesn't try and pretend to be heroic, and everyone in it reacts appropriately to the unmitigated trauma they endure. But that doesn't include Destiny, which I'll get to in a minute.
As for 00, only the second season is an unashamed retread of Zeta. The first season is a complex political drama, one that doesn't hesitate to explore the idea behind Celestial Being. It sets up the idea of eliminating war via stomping heavily on anybody who lifts a gun, then spends most of the last ten episodes gleefully smashing the concept to pieces with a mallet. Indeed, it's heavily implied that creating the One World Order by giving the nations a threat as dangerous as Celestial Being to unite against was actually the original plan until it was sabotaged from within. The second season is where things dive into rehash territory. My personal opinion is that Season 2 of 00 is still good, but it has a lot of wasted potential. It's good for what it is, but not good compared to what it could've been had the original themes been kept and further expounded upon.
Let me preface the following statements by agreeing with the above quote in principle. There's no denying that Shinn does all these things, and that the Destiny Gundam itself is seriously underutilized.
However, I also don't find these issues to be as extreme as others do because I think the one thing Destiny did well was establish exactly why Shinn acts like he does. Shinn is a broken man, having witnessed the horrific deaths of his entire family while on the run from a battle the Earth Alliance started solely in order to gain control of a Mass Driver. Since said Mass Driver ended up being self-detonated by Orb at the end of the battle anyway, it essentially means that Shinn's family died for nothing; they were tragic victims of an ultimately meaningless engagement initiated by a corrupt military organisation lead by a cheerfully insane fascist. As a result, he joins ZAFT and spends the next few years being psychologically manipulated by both his immediate mentor and his best friend. He never receives the psychiatric counselling that he desperately needs in order to function like a proper human being again, and the people around him take advantage of his weaknesses time and again in order to exploit his piloting abilities.
Unfortunately, Shinn's piloting skills are degraded by his progressively worsening mental state. His relationship with Stella ends tragically with her dying in his arms after being stuffed into the cockpit of a WMD, and the first thing he does after acquiring the Destiny Gundam is shoot down an MS containing another member of his squadron and his love interest's little sister. His supposed allies and compatriots consistently encourage him to act out his revenge fantasies and indulge in the absolute worst aspects of his personality. As the series progresses Shinn becomes ever-more hate filled, mentally unbalanced and ensnared in Durendal's psychological webs. His attempts at revenge against Kira and the Earth Alliance only stoke his madness, and in the final battle he's degraded to the point of literally suffering from hallucinations.
In conclusion, I don't like Shinn because he's a good character, I like him because he's an excellent example of how to properly write somebody's descent into pitiful madness.
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Wing is pretty shitty, but I would say SEED Destiny is still way worse. Just the insane amount of stock footage alone is unacceptable.
Yeah, I never really cared much about the series, and find it really hard to take seriously. Even with the original version or the uncut dub, it's still got a lot of problems. Mainly with the animation and lack of characterization of the main characters sans Duo and maybe Quatre. Never gave any attention to the other entries in that part of the franchise either, so my opinions are mostly based upon the initial TV series only.
The only Gundams I've ever seen in their entirety are 00 and G Gundam. Been meaning to check out some other incarnations and I tried the F91 movie but I really couldn't get into it.
Oh and I just finished laughing my ass off at this gem I found on youtube and now I want to share it with fucking everybody:
Oh and I just finished laughing my ass off at this gem I found on youtube and now I want to share it with fucking everybody:
F91 is a crudely hacked-up abortion of the first dozen or so episodes that would've been the Gundam F91 show. The F91 doesn't even appear until 35 minutes in. It's pretty damn poor, really.
That'd be Crossbone Gundam, not F91. Crossbone is actually a manga, not an animated feature. It's also considered by most to be extremely good, so it's worth checking out.
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