J.K. Rowling needs to stop messing with Harry Potter - A general STFU J.K. Rowling MegaThread <3

Alto

Space Doggity
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I think the difference is that Snape is framed as 100% a polarizing anti-hero character whereas James was shaped from the beginning to be this well-loved hero that everyone spoke highly about until you find out what an asshole he was. Snape was by no means a misunderstood victim as he did his own fair share of awful shit. But the book portrays him as a nasty, flawed person that acted with courage and conviction and maybe even some redemption but was ultimately still a nasty flawed person worthy of just as much pity as contempt. It wasn't so for James because it just feels like he gets a free pass since everyone's judgments about him are colored with awe or friendship.

Snape and James were both equally horrible people. The only difference is that one is very clearly supposed to be seen that way and the other basically got rewarded with the girl and a legacy even though he didn't do that much to make up for it in the grand scheme of things.
 

iRON-mAn

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Also, didn't Snape use Sectumsempra to slash James open in one of the memories in the memory sieve? He nearly killed the him, too, and I'm fairly certain he didn't apologize for it.

Neither incident of almost-killing is okay in the slightest, but it's not like Snape was a totally innocent victim. He did nasty shit to James, too.
I believe you're thinking of Harry using it on Malfoy. To my knowledge, Snape never actually used the spell, though he did invent it. He also invented the levicorpus spell, which was subsequently used by James on Snape. I'm happy to be proven wrong though.

I think the difference is that Snape is framed as 100% a polarizing anti-hero character whereas James was shaped from the beginning to be this well-loved hero that everyone spoke highly about until you find out what an asshole he was. Snape was by no means a misunderstood victim as he did his own fair share of awful shit. But the book portrays him as a nasty, flawed person that acted with courage and conviction and maybe even some redemption but was ultimately, still, a nasty flawed person worthy of just as much pity as contempt. It wasn't so for James because it just feels like he gets a free pass since everyone's judgments about him are colored with awe or friendship.

Snape and James were both equally horrible people. The only difference is that one is very clearly supposed to be seen that way and the other basically got rewarded with the girl and a legacy even though he didn't do that much to make up for it in the grand scheme of things.
Is he though? The Order of the Phoenix is all about Harry finding out more stuff about his dad and learning that he was an obnoxious shit. The point was that James changed for the better and settled down, Snape dwelt on his anger and insecurity, which led him down a darker path. The fact that we don't know whether James completed a 12 step program or just became self-aware of how much an asshole he was, doesn't change the fact that he did change. Everyone says he was a better person later in life. Are we just supposed to dismiss that because it isn't shown?

If any one is an unrepentant bastard, it's Sirius. He's the one who tips off Snape that Remus is going to the Shrieking Shack every month and he continues to be an absolute dick to the man years later, even after he's joined the Order.
 
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Promestein

Shitposter extraordinairé
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Fuck that.
Let her keep fucking with her shitty books. Its not like she can make them any worse by saying a certain character is lgbt or some other bullshit.
 
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madethistocomment

welcome to god's mosh pit
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I believe you're thinking of Harry using it on Malfoy. To my knowledge, Snape never actually used the spell, though he did invent it. He also invented the levicorpus spell, which was subsequently used by James on Snape. I'm happy to be proven wrong though.



Is he though? The Order of the Phoenix is all about Harry finding out more stuff about his dad and learning that he was an obnoxious shit. The point was that James changed for the better and settled down, Snape dwelt on his anger and insecurity, which led him down a darker path. The fact that we don't know whether James completed a 12 step program or just became self-aware of how much an asshole he was, doesn't change the fact that he did change. Everyone says he was a better person later in life. Are we just supposed to dismiss that because it isn't shown?

If any one is an unrepentant bastard, it's Sirius. He's the one who tips off Snape that Remus is going to the Shrieking Shack every month and he continues to be an absolute dick to the man years later, even after he's joined the Order.
I wasn't sure myself, but I looked it up and every place that I checked said that he used a nonverbal version of it on James in the chapter "Snape's Worst Memory" so I busted out my book and checked, and lo and behold, yep, he did.
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Although I will stand corrected on it almost killing James. I think that's where I got it mixed up with Harry vs. Malfoy, lol. The killing intent was still there, though.

Also, yeah, as much as I love Sirius, he was quite the dick. I agree with you there.

(sidenote: the book was so goddamn thick I had to use two of my textbooks to keep the edges down while I took the picture. I forgot how much of a brick OOtP is, Jesus.)
 
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iRON-mAn

kiwifarms.net
I wasn't sure myself, but I looked it up and every place that I checked said that he used a nonverbal version of it on James in the chapter "Snape's Worst Memory" so I busted out my book a checked, and lo and behold, yep, he did.View attachment 700167
Although I will stand corrected on it almost killing James. I think that's where I got it mixed up with Harry vs. Malfoy, lol. The killing intent was still there, though.

Also, yeah, as much as I love Sirius, he was quite the dick. I agree with you there.
I stand corrected. Well done, good sir.
 

Alto

Space Doggity
kiwifarms.net
Remus is the only one of the Marauders that deserves any kind of credit. He wasn't outwardly dickish towards Snape like the rest of them were, remained cordial with him as adults, and had no control over his werewolf nature, nor did he have any intention of hurting anyone. He comes off the least scathed in my opinion.

But of course Rowling will probably ruin him next week by saying that he and Sirius bumped uglies a whole bunch of times sooo....
 

Bunny Tracks

Nothing equals the splendor
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Snape and James were both equally horrible people. The only difference is that one is very clearly supposed to be seen that way and the other basically got rewarded with the girl and a legacy even though he didn't do that much to make up for it in the grand scheme of things.
This, sort of. Snape and James are both terrible, and neither of them should've gotten with Lily. I must say, however, that they are not equally bad. Snape is far, far worse. Here's just some of shit he did. Forgive me for the Tumblr posts, but these really sum it up.
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James was a shithead, but at the very least he grew out of it. Snape did not and got inexcusably worse.
 
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Alto

Space Doggity
kiwifarms.net
I'm probably letting my personal fondness for Snape color my perception. I really do mean it when I say that Snape is in no way justified or a good person by any means. I guess, really, he's just more appealing than James--at least to me--because he never denies being a horrible person and goes through something of an arc to do something of good, even if it's due to his personal feelings. Snape's one of the subtler characters in Rowling's shitty writing so I have an appreciation for what he stands for. So there's that.

At the end of the day though, HP isn't the Bible nor should anyone think too hard about it. It's a simple children's book series, not the second coming. I wish Rowling and her shills realized this...
 

Kari Kamiya

"I beat her up, so I gave her a cuck-cup."
kiwifarms.net
I think the difference is that Snape is framed as 100% a polarizing anti-hero character whereas James was shaped from the beginning to be this well-loved hero that everyone spoke highly about until you find out what an asshole he was.
Weren't most of the people who praised James and what he did for Hogwarts those who were in Gryffindor? Wasn't it stated that Gryffindor and Slytherin pretty much have a deep-rooted rivalry that extents to their House members, and on top of Snape being a freak, therefore it was generally "normal" for them to be at each others' throats? Lily, being a mudblood, didn't know of this and this is why she stepped in because their behavior grossed her out.

'Course, then again, Hermione was basically the opposite of Lily in that aspect, but Malfoy was a spoiled brat with a nasty streak (but I think it was because his father pushed a lot of expectations on him?) and so she never viewed him fondly or was sympathetic toward him (which is why the Draco/Hermione ship confuses the hell out of me so much).
 

Lou Wrong

Butthurt about Buddyloids
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I think it comes down more to what the audience member personally hates. Does he hate the meanie who is generally treated with contempt by those around him, or the childhood bully who gets praise from other children while beating one particular loser up? The actual nature of their specific crimes doesn't matter, its more about which one relates to the reader's own history.
 

SteelPlatedHeart

Politics are fucking dumb
True & Honest Fan
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Kids/teens tend to be pretty shitty in general. Some grow out of it, others stick with their shittiness. All we really saw of James was some flashbacks from Snape’s memory and those ghost scenes. There’s a large gap between the scene at the lake and Voldermort killing him. A lot can change.

Rowling really needs to stop though. Just ignore woke Twitter and stop trying to pander to fanatics.
 

GethN7

True & Honest Fan
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This, sort of. Snape and James are both terrible, and neither of them should've gotten with Lily. I must say, however, that they are not equally bad. Snape is far, far worse. Here's just some of shit he did. Forgive me for the Tumblr posts, but these really sum it up.
James is a shithead, but at the very least he grew out of it. Snape did not and got inexcusably worse.
Snape and James are basically a Virgin vs. Chad meme as book characters.

Sure, Snape might have ULTIMATELY done the right thing, but not before being as much as a bitter incelish bastard prior.

James on the other hand, yeah, he was an asshole who got Mary Sued despite it, but unlike Snape his list of asshat moves is far shorter in the long run and by the time he died he was clearly the more moral of the two no matter how you look at things.
 

GreyGhost

Somedays You Just Can't Rid Of A Bomb!
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It's funny how i use love the Harry Potter series, I would read the series of books bi annually. A feel like it's a shame that Rowling is a shithead and is just pulling "Canon" out of her ass.
 

Tasty Tatty

kiwifarms.net
The main motif of HP is choices. Voldemort chose to become what he became in the same way Harry chose not to despite the many similarities between them (funny enough, this is much better explained in the fifth movie).

Both James and Snape were assholes (Sirius too, tbh) at some point. James was spoiled and rude, which eventually made him a bully. Alas, James changed when he was still in Hogwarts. How much the episode of Sirius almost killing Snape influenced on it? We might never know. The thing is, he decided to change and become the good James everybody remembers.

Snape is a different case. When they're both presented together before Hogwarts, Snape seemed to be a much nicer person than James. Looks like his friendship with Lily kept him with the feet on the ground. If we take Slytherin house as a metaphor for embracing evil (which it is), then Sirius was right when he said Snape always had a fascination for the Dark Arts and he chose to embrace them (while Sirius rejected them by being sorted to Gryffindor, unlike everybody in his family). James being a bully was probably just an accelerator and a excuse, but not a cause. Snape decided to join a cult that was killing people because they were different and he only stopped when he realised Lily could have been personally targeted. He didn't care the same could have happened to Alice Longbottom or any other woman. Also, his alleged love for Lily was equally selfish because he didn't mind either that James or Harry were hurt on the process. He was not remotely a good person. He never cared about anyone but his own childhood crush being fulfilled. He's not a tragic hero or anything remotely similar to it. People tend to side with him because he was a victim of bullying, but victims can also be cruel assholes.

If any one is an unrepentant bastard, it's Sirius. He's the one who tips off Snape that Remus is going to the Shrieking Shack every month and he continues to be an absolute dick to the man years later, even after he's joined the Order.
Sirius had nothing to repent for. We don't know w hat happened in that incident. He could have, indeed, planned it all to get Snape killed or simply got fed up and yell at him something like "if you want to know what we do why don't you just go and find out?" and never realised Snape would actually do so. Honestly, Sirius seems to be too smart to actually plan to get Snape killed knowing Remus would be the one doing the killing.

Now, if him being a dick is his behavior in Order of the Phoenix, this happened after Snape could have gotten James (Sectusempra in the memory, which was before the SS incident), Remus, and himself (Azkaban) killed. Snape tried to get Sirius and Remus kissed by a Dementor, later made Remus lose his only job because he was mad at him being both innocent, and was overall quite abusive towards Harry for the only crime of looking like James. Sirius was right when he said he didn't trust Snape: Snape told Voldemort about the prophecy, which made Voldemort target the Potters and Snape only wanted to save Lily, not James or Harry. I think Sirius had every right to be a dick at him.
 
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HeyYou

seriousposter
True & Honest Fan
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Lupin is probably the best character in the books, to be honest. It always infuriated me that Rowling wrote the books so that Harry got closer to Sirius, probably the one out of him, Lupin and James that remained the most dickish, after PoA. Lupin, meanwhile, was far and away the best teacher Harry ever had and Lupin's discussions with him were the best written parts of PoA, if not the series. I always wish Rowling had given him an equal role in mentoring Harry, but he kind of just dropped out of the spotlight after PoA.
 

GethN7

True & Honest Fan
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Lupin is probably the best character in the books, to be honest. It always infuriated me that Rowling wrote the books so that Harry got closer to Sirius, probably the one out of him, Lupin and James that remained the most dickish, after PoA. Lupin, meanwhile, was far and away the best teacher Harry ever had and Lupin's discussions with him were the best written parts of PoA, if not the series. I always wish Rowling had given him an equal role in mentoring Harry, but he kind of just dropped out of the spotlight after PoA.
It was a small part of the series, but one thing I liked that de Mary Sued Sirius somewhat is when Harry was told Sirius being a dick to Kreacher was just making things worse and Harry got a lot farther in gaining Kreacher's respect when he actually showed Kreacher some basic decency that Sirius never bothered to.

Given how Rowling kept blowing glitter up Sirius' ass otherwise, nice to see him knocked off his rather undeserved pedestal a little.
 

iRON-mAn

kiwifarms.net
Sirius had nothing to repent for. We don't know w hat happened in that incident. He could have, indeed, planned it all to get Snape killed or simply got fed up and yell at him something like "if you want to know what we do why don't you just go and find out?" and never realised Snape would actually do so. Honestly, Sirius seems to be too smart to actually plan to get Snape killed knowing Remus would be the one doing the killing.
From chapter 18 or Prisoner of Azkaban:
(Lupin speaking) ...Sirius here played a trick on him which nearly killed him, a trick which involved me --"

Black made a derisive noise.

"It served him right," he sneered. "Sneaking around, trying to find out what we were up to. . . hoping he could get us expelled. . . . "

"Severus was very interested in where I went every month. " Lupin told Harry, Ron, and Hermione. "We were in the same year, you know, and we -- er -- didn't like each other very much. He especially disliked James. Jealous, I think, of James's talent on the Quidditch field. . . anyway Snape had seen me crossing the grounds with Madam Pomfrey one evening as she led me toward the Whomping Willow to transform. Sirius thought it would be -- er -- amusing, to tell Snape all he had to do was prod the knot on the tree trunk with a long stick, and he'd be able to get in after me. Well, of course, Snape tried it -- if he'd got as far as this house, he'd have met a fully grown werewolf -- but your father, who'd heard what Sirius had done, went after Snape and pulled him back, at great risk to his life. . .

This incident is one of the view we have more details about and one that Black is right there to contradict, if he so pleases. But he doesn't argue with anything that Lupin says. He thought it would be just and amusing that a nosy student stumble upon a werewolf at the height of the moon. He goes so far as to tell Snape exactly how to get past the Whomping Willow. He never has a change of heart, not then, and not years later as shown by his statements here, it's only because James realises the danger, not Sirius that Snape is saved.
 
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