World Japanese Aircraft Carrier Kaga wreck found - Took part in Pearl Harbor attack, got sunk at midway for revenge

PortsideDave

Concentration camp counselor
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https://news.usni.org/2019/10/18/video-wreck-discovered-of-wwii-japanese-carrier-key-to-pearl-harbor-attack

VIDEO: Wreck Discovered of WWII Japanese Carrier Key to Pearl Harbor Attack
October 18, 2019 3:04 PM

Researchers have discovered the wreck of the Imperial Japanese Navy carrier that was key to the attack on Pearl Harbor and that sank at the Battle of Midway, U.S. officials confirmed to USNI News on Friday.

IJN Kaga was found in the Papahanaumokuakea Marine National Monument off the Midway Atoll by the crew of R/V Petrel, the lead ship in the ongoing expedition funded by late Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen to find ships and aircraft that were lost in World War II.

The site was hundreds of miles off the Midway Atoll and about 18,000 feet below the surface, former director of Maritime Heritage for the National Marine Sanctuaries Program at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Jim Delgado told USNI News on Friday.

“Paul Allen had a plan, and that was to find all of these ships,” he said.

The find was part of a systemic search effort off the Northwestern Hawaiian Island, according to a story in The Associated Press that had a reporter aboard Petrel.

“Midway is one of the largest sea battles in history because everything fell – that includes ships and aircraft, not only the carriers but all of those that were shot down – they’re all down there,” Delgado said.

“The survey is ultimately going to show us every fallen warrior from the ships and the planes and provide us with a more complete map by this largely untouched and undersea battlefield.”
Kaga was originally laid down as a Tosa-class battleship in 1921 but was set to be scrapped after the Washington Naval Treaty limited the number of battleships signatories could own. After an earthquake damaged another ship hull set for conversion to an aircraft carrier, the Japanese Imperial Navy in 1923 decided to convert Kaga to a carrier instead. Kaga joined the fleet in 1929. A renaissance in Japanese carrier operation tactics in 1932 and 1933 led the navy to put Kaga back into the yard to ditch its three-tiered flight deck in favor of a longer one that could accommodate the bigger and more sophisticated aircraft the imperial navy would come to rely on for its campaigns at sea.

After coming out of the yard in 1935, Kaga was faster and more capable. The carrier took part in operations against China in the 1930s, the Pearl Harbor attack in 1941 and attacks on Australia and the Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia) in 1942.

In June 1942, four Japanese carriers – Kaga, Akagi, Soryu and Hiryu, all of which participated in the attack on Pearl Harbor – were attacked by American aircraft from the Midway Atoll and from carriers USS Enterprise (CV-6), USS Hornet (CV-8) and USS Yorktown (CV-5). Dive bombers from Enterprise caused severe damage to Kaga, and the Japanese intentionally sank the carrier to keep it from falling into enemy hands. A section of the hull had previously been discovered in 1999.

Kaga was named after the province west of Nagano and north of Kyoto. A second ship to bear that name – this one a helicopter carrier, though officially dubbed a destroyer by the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force – was commissioned in 2017. JS Kaga (DDH-184) is the second ship in the Izumo class of destroyers and is about the same length as its World War II namesake, making these DDHs the largest warships Japan has fielded since the end of World War II and its adoption of a pacifist constitution that requires a self-defense-oriented military force.

The U.S. Navy acknowledged the discovery in a Friday statement.

“On the occasion of the discovery of the Kaga, we send our thoughts and prayers to our trusted and valued friends in Japan. The terrible price of war in the Pacific was felt by all our navies. From that painful lesson, we have become the closest of allies and friends committed to maintaining a free and open Indo-Pacific,” Rear Adm. Brian Fort, commander of U.S. naval forces in Japan, said in a statement to USNI News.

The crew aboard Petrel have located numerous World War II-era wrecks. In the last two years, the team has found the wreckage of carriers USS Lexington (CV-2), USS Wasp (CV-7) and USS Hornet (CV-8); cruisers USS Juneau (CL-52) and USS Helena (CL-50); and Japanese ship IJN Hiei.
 
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Still Anonymous For This

I've never even been to Vienna.
kiwifarms.net
Does the United States still put limits on Japanese military capacity? We should just let them go crazy so they'll be ready to fight the Chinese together.
The general consensus with most administrations has been the Japanese can expand if they feel as though they need to. If the Japanese want to take more responsibility in quarantining the Norks or standing up to the Chinese, good on 'em. Unfortunately Japan is tied up by their own constitution.

I know Shinzo Abe has pushed in the past to amend it to allow the JSDF to be offensive and to allow Japan more leeway to back the US. Right now the JSDF can only be used defensively. If China attacked American warships, constitutionally Japan couldn't do fuck all until they're attacked.
 

Sackity

Yo, buddy. Still alive
kiwifarms.net
We've wanted them to re-arm for over 40 years now. They say no because they know how sweet a deal they've got now.
Their current government wants to re-arm, and start converting some LHDs into light aircraft carriers. Problem is, that's barred by their constitution, and the public appears to be against changing it to allow Japan to have carrier capability again.
 
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Pickelhaube

Ultimate♂Muscle♂Roller♂Legend
kiwifarms.net
This is just viral marketing for some upcoming Kantai Collection event, isn’t it?

“Yeah, we found a new ship. *wink wink*. Get the new limited card.”
Nah, Azur Lane is the next hot thing right now. Their anime currently airing.

Anime sperging aside, the moment when IJN lost four carriers in the Battle of Midway, Japan was forced into the defensive as the US gradually took back the islands and outgunned them too.
 

Gustav Schuchardt

Trans exclusionary radical feminazi.
kiwifarms.net
I know Shinzo Abe has pushed in the past to amend it to allow the JSDF to be offensive and to allow Japan more leeway to back the US. Right now the JSDF can only be used defensively. If China attacked American warships, constitutionally Japan couldn't do fuck all until they're attacked.
That's not necessarily true. The Abe government has reinterpreted the constitution as allowing Japan to come to the aid of allies.


In July 2014, instead of using Article 96 of the Japanese Constitution to amend the Constitution itself, the Japanese government approved a reinterpretation which gave more powers to the Japan Self-Defense Forces, allowing them to defend other allies in case of war being declared upon them, despite concerns and disapproval from China, South Korea and North Korea, whereas the United States supported the move. This change is considered illegitimate by some Japanese political parties and citizens, since the Prime Minister circumvented Japan's constitutional amendment procedure.[2][3][4] In September 2015, the Japanese National Diet made the reinterpretation official by enacting a series of laws allowing the Japan Self-Defense Forces to provide material support to allies engaged in combat internationally. The stated justification was that failing to defend or support an ally would weaken alliances and endanger Japan.[5]
 

Still Anonymous For This

I've never even been to Vienna.
kiwifarms.net
That's not necessarily true. The Abe government has reinterpreted the constitution as allowing Japan to come to the aid of allies.

Feel free to read this article here and your own source. Currently the JSDF can only provide material support for its allies in the case of war. Water, fuel and ammunition. Less than what Lend-Lease provided. The new changes also allow Japanese troops to defend foreign weapons platforms engaged in the defense of Japan.

Japan still cannot proactively go to war if American warships or troops are attacked by a foreign power. Mitsubishi F-2s are not going to be screaming towards Taiwan to provide cover for American destroyers any time soon.
 

Übertroon

Gotta go fast
kiwifarms.net
Nah, Azur Lane is the next hot thing right now. Their anime currently airing.

Anime sperging aside, the moment when IJN lost four carriers in the Battle of Midway, Japan was forced into the defensive as the US gradually took back the islands and outgunned them too.
I was going to mention that Akagi and Kaga in Azur Lane is far superior than their Kantai collection iterations
 

mindlessobserver

kiwifarms.net
The general consensus with most administrations has been the Japanese can expand if they feel as though they need to. If the Japanese want to take more responsibility in quarantining the Norks or standing up to the Chinese, good on 'em. Unfortunately Japan is tied up by their own constitution.

I know Shinzo Abe has pushed in the past to amend it to allow the JSDF to be offensive and to allow Japan more leeway to back the US. Right now the JSDF can only be used defensively. If China attacked American warships, constitutionally Japan couldn't do fuck all until they're attacked.
They also cheat. The modern Kaga is called a "helicopter carrier", but its large enough to be a launch platform for the F-35. Its also given a DD designation for a "destroyer" class hull. All 22,000 displacement tons of her. For comparison, the Daring class UK Destroyers have around 9.000 tons of Displacement. Its also not to cheat the international community but rather the Japanese voters that don't want to spend money on a military anymore.

Still confuses me how Japan could place all their bets on the Yamato when they were already rockin it with aircraft carriers.
The Aircraft carrier was not a known quantity when World War 2 broke out. Its application was actually an accident of international law. The Washington Naval Conference limited how much tonnage different countries could apply to their fleets based upon class of warship. The huge battleships and battlecruisers were the most restricted. Aircraft Carriers on the other hand fell under a different category as "fleet auxilliary". Same category as supply ships, troop transports and coaliers. There were no tonnage restrictions on those. So what both the United States and Japan ended up doing was repurposing Battlecruiser and Battleship hulls that had been laid down during and after World War 1 into aircraft carriers. In theory so that if a war broke out they could just take the flight deck off of them and reinstall the guns. Its why Early World War 2 carriers have that weird design where the flight deck is supported above the hull by pillars. They litterally bolted a flat surface to the hull of battleship and called it a fleet auxiliary ship.

And then it turns out naval aircraft was the shit and nobody looked back. But by then Japan had already sunk huge resources into their super battleship program, which had been started back when it was still assumed battleships were the premier warships. They had a procurement program that was literally and figuratively too big to fail.
 
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YooA

kiwifarms.net
If China attacked American warships, constitutionally Japan couldn't do fuck all until they're attacked.
Japan still cannot proactively go to war if American warships or troops are attacked by a foreign power. Mitsubishi F-2s are not going to be screaming towards Taiwan to provide cover for American destroyers any time soon.
It's impossible that Japan itself won't be attacked considering our bases are in their cities, but honestly if there was ever a full scale war in the pacific between America and China, the Japanese are going to do exactly what we tell them to do. I mean hypothetically, if they were never "directly" attacked, do you think Japan would sit that one out?

I think they'd follow the constitution to a point, like in your example, but when things really start swinging they're not going to need a direct invitation. imo.
 

millais

The Yellow Rose of Victoria, Texas
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Nah, Azur Lane is the next hot thing right now. Their anime currently airing.

Anime sperging aside, the moment when IJN lost four carriers in the Battle of Midway, Japan was forced into the defensive as the US gradually took back the islands and outgunned them too.
By that time in 1942, US production rate of new carriers and associated support vessels/aircraft was fast enough that the US would have enjoyed naval aviation numerical superiority over Japan even if USN suffered a 100% loss rate on existing carriers in the field.
 

Cedric_Eff

No secret, it's the meat. Don't skimp on the meat.
kiwifarms.net
It’s nice to hear they found the wreck of an aircraft carrier. Will they pull it out of the bottom of the sea like they did with some of the Japanese ships after WWII?
 
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