Jessica Yaniv: True & Honest Woman, Autogynephile, or Other? - Discuss JY's transness here

[stuffandthings]

I miss the good old days when an Autogynophile was called a Transvestite or Drag Queen and they made fun musical movies or did stand up comedy. If dressing like a woman gets you off, great. Tuck that dick and paint that lip. Just stay the fuck away from the hormones and scissors. In the end, you'll be 100% healthier for it.

 

[a feel]

I miss the good old days when an Autogynophile was called a Transvestite or Drag Queen and they made fun musical movies or did stand up comedy. If dressing like a woman gets you off, great. Tuck that dick and paint that lip. Just stay the fuck away from the hormones and scissors. In the end, you'll be 100% healthier for it.

Uhm. Those things are not the same.

 

[stuffandthings]

Uhm. Those things are not the same.

Unless I'm wrong an Autogynophile gets off on the idea of themselves as a woman. Not all Drag Queens and Transvestites are that way, some may be doing because they like the performance or the taboo, but you know some of them do it for the thrills of themselves as a woman. If there is a difference, please elucidate?

I'm saying that if you get off on dressing like a woman, fine, dress like a woman. But I think AGPs would be healthier appropriating a Drag identity rather than a Trans.

 

[a feel]

Unless I'm wrong an Autogynophile gets off on the idea of themselves as a woman. Not all Drag Queens and Transvestites are that way, some may be doing because they like the performance or the taboo, but you know some of them do it for the thrills of themselves as a woman. If there is a difference, please elucidate?

I'm saying that if you get off on dressing like a woman, fine, dress like a woman. But I think AGPs would be healthier appropriating a Drag identity rather than a Trans.

Drag Queens are usually flaming gay men who don't deny being flaming gay men. Drag is something very very gay and not at all like troonism. The most blatant difference is also one of the most important differences: Drag Queens love men. AGP troons are straight men who claim to be "lesbian women" because they want to sex women (and girls. Mostly girls.)

Drag gay. Playing dress-up because it's fun and a thrill and often allows really gay men to delve into their love for dresses and makeup. They don't pretend to be anything but gay dudes having a blast.

Troons "lesbian". Straight oversexualized men who are either too deviant or too ugly to find a woman who will wax their balls. For them, it's about the sexual aspect of it all, and only that. They want to bang women (with their dicks) and themselves pretending to be women they can bang (with other dicks). It's a completely fucked up power fantasy and unhealthy sexual obsession and fetish.

You can't tell an AGP to just go out in drag once a week. They are perverts deeply obsessed with their sexual deviance.

 

[stuffandthings]

Drag Queens are usually flaming gay men who don't deny being flaming gay men. Drag is something very very gay and not at all like troonism. The most blatant difference is also one of the most important differences: Drag Queens love men. AGP troons are straight men who claim to be "lesbian women" because they want to sex women (and girls. Mostly girls.)

Drag gay. Playing dress-up because it's fun and a thrill and often allows really gay men to delve into their love for dresses and makeup. They don't pretend to be anything but gay dudes having a blast.

Troons "lesbian". Straight oversexualized men who are either too deviant or too ugly to find a woman who will wax their balls. For them, it's about the sexual aspect of it all, and only that. They want to bang women (with their dicks) and themselves pretending to be women they can bang (with other dicks). It's a completely fucked up power fantasy and unhealthy sexual obsession and fetish.

You can't tell an AGP to just go out in drag once a week. They are perverts deeply obsessed with their sexual deviance.

Fair distinction. I guess I'm still in an older mindset for Drag/transvestites. Where the gays and the straights and various flavors in between were lumped together. There ARE straight and bi Drag Queens. I remember reading a Cracked article by one back when Cracked was tolerable. And while the earliest Drag Queens may have been playing straight but were really stuck in the closet, I'm guessing some were AGP too.

I guess I also thought something like Autogynophila was on a spectrum. Maybe I'm being but I figured that there were some guys who didn't use their kink as an excuse to be an abusive asshole, and could put on their lipstick and pantyhose in moderation, and not try to force themselves on chicks that aren't down with their kink.

 

[SourDiesel]

Fair distinction. I guess I'm still in an older mindset for Drag/transvestites. Where the gays and the straights and various flavors in between were lumped together. There ARE straight and bi Drag Queens. I remember reading a Cracked article by one back when Cracked was tolerable. And while the earliest Drag Queens may have been playing straight but were really stuck in the closet, I'm guessing some were AGP too.

I guess I also thought something like Autogynophila was on a spectrum. Maybe I'm being but I figured that there were some guys who didn't use their kink as an excuse to be an abusive asshole, and could put on their lipstick and pantyhose in moderation, and not try to force themselves on chicks that aren't down with their kink.

Autogynephilia is also a term coined by Blanchard to describe one of two specific types of transexual. It actually has nothing at all to do with drag and never did. It's not even simply a dude who gets off on wearing panties either. It's a very specific fetish of being seen as and treated as identical to a woman.

It's a bit like saying houseflies are small bugs with wings and big eyes so then turning around and calling all flying insects houseflies. They have some things in common but "housefly" is a specific species.

 

[Teazel]

I miss the good old days when an Autogynophile was called a Transvestite or Drag Queen and they made fun musical movies or did stand up comedy. If dressing like a woman gets you off, great. Tuck that dick and paint that lip. Just stay the fuck away from the hormones and scissors. In the end, you'll be 100% healthier for it.

Totally not the same. Most drag queens are gay men. AGP are straight men with a fetish.

 

[fuzakeru na]

Totally not the same. Most drag queens are gay men. AGP are straight men with a fetish.

dress like a woman or act like a fag? you're a fag, the quicker people realise that they are faggots the better the world becomes because at the moment the world has been conditioned to approve of people thinking they are born the opposite gender after 20 years.

It's fucking sick. Our current community welcomes and promotes mental illness.

 

[a feel]

dress like a woman or act like a fag? you're a fag, the quicker people realise that they are faggots the better the world becomes because at the moment the world has been conditioned to approve of people thinking they are born the opposite gender after 20 years.

It's fucking sick. Our current community welcomes and promotes mental illness.

While I agree with your sentiment regarding the promotion of mental illness (see literally every troon and most "normal" trannys) I think you should lurk moar because it was literally just explained two posts ago that troons, faggots and crossdressers are entirely different things.

 

[Feline Darkmage]

I'm really baffled the misconception that AGP is some kind of "not true tranny" mark. Like Blanchars typology is fake and gay and way too simplified but he made the term and he says people with it who transition are actually trans. So I'd trust him over internet randoms.

Honestly it doesn't matter long term if JY is trans or not, because either way they've exhibited constantly awful and embarrassing behavior on levels indicating that there's something very "that boy ain't right"-tier going on far beyond Dysphoria or being a conman. Jonny is an armchair psychologist's wet dream due to being several layers of mentally disturbed mixed with a good portion of "shitty person" mixed in for good measure.

Well if he's not trans than he can't be an autogynephile. But this is a moot point anyway because everyone knows he's just gaming the system and doesn't truly believe he's a woman. But also, he meets the definition of trans regardless. Anyone who says they are a woman is a woman. Those are the rules. Anyone.

You can have a tampon fetish and not be an autogynephile though. I actually think he's just a fucking degenerate fetishist pedophile with an age of attraction around puberty aged girls.

Actually you can be. You can have it and not see yourself as trans or attempt to transition, I've encountered people like that. Aside from that yeah that's pretty spot on.

 

[SourDiesel]

I'm really baffled the misconception that AGP is some kind of "not true tranny" mark. Like Blanchars typology is fake and gay and way too simplified but he made the term and he says people with it who transition are actually trans. So I'd trust him over internet randoms.

Honestly it doesn't matter long term if JY is trans or not, because either way they've exhibited constantly awful and embarrassing behavior on levels indicating that there's something very "that boy ain't right"-tier going on far beyond Dysphoria or being a conman. Jonny is an armchair psychologist's wet dream due to being several layers of mentally disturbed mixed with a good portion of "shitty person" mixed in for good measure.



Actually you can be. You can have it and not see yourself as trans or attempt to transition, I've encountered people like that. Aside from that yeah that's pretty spot on.

The number of people I would consider "true trannies" is so low they might as well not exist tbh. Though I believe some people's disphoria can get pretty deep. I said what I did because like Blanchard or not, autogynephilia is a term he coined specifically to describe one of the two types of tranny he observed. So if you're an autogynephile, you're trans simply because you have to be to fit into his taxonomy.

But your comment raises a philosophical question that doesn't really belong in this thread, which is: is a tranny a tranny if they choose not to transition? Why or why not and what does that say about the solidity of the concept of "being trans" in the first place? Interesting but probably belongs in the philosophy thread on this board.

Edit: NM it turns out we are on the most appropriate board for such a question. Still, I have no answer to it being that I'm exhausted currently tbh.

 

[heathercho]

dress like a woman or act like a fag? you're a fag, the quicker people realise that they are faggots the better the world becomes because at the moment the world has been conditioned to approve of people thinking they are born the opposite gender after 20 years.

It's fucking sick. Our current community welcomes and promotes mental illness.

If someone wants to live as the opposite sex to their biological gender - I'm fine with that, go ahead, regardless if it's a fetish or mental illness or biological misfire.

Just be a decent person, respect others and respect societal values. Biological sex is a reality. People like Rhys Mckinnon deny that. People like Jonathan deny that. They deny that there are differences between the biological sexes. They deny that women have had historically, a harder time than men, which they are.

They seek to eradicate biological women. That's because they're not decent people. Their intentions are bad faith.
They are the slippery slope. They are akin to pedophiles who promote trans-age shit.

There are rules in societal, standards and realities for a reason. They don't need to be changed. They are safeguards to stop predators from doing whatever they like. I mean, maybe we should do away with all rules, so then we can just kill troons. I mean I'm fine with that. But they wouldn't like that. They only want to break the realities that prevent them from doing bad faith things.

People like Jon and Rhys put people like Blaire and say... Rose of Dawn in danger. Even if you view them as girly fag men, they still are feminine and not well... 6foot tall hulks. They are more like women. I don't care if people view them as fags, I still think they need protection from perverts, because they're doing things right.

At the core of it, transgender or gay or whatever you want to view it as, isn't so much the issue, it's coz they've kinda always been then - it's something that exists as either a mental issue or a biochemical one, but it's the people who seek to totally destroy the rule of law of what makes society cohesive that is a problem.

Like you know... things who go to tribunals and want biological women to wax balls or men in dresses who demand gimmedats from rape centres.

They do totally promote and welcome mental illness as a tool to destroy social cohesion. But I don't think all trans people are by-proxy mentally ill or that in all cases that mental illness is a danger to society - something to be curbed and kept in check yes, but the real perverts are the ones that want no checks and balances.

 

[a feel]

is a tranny a tranny if they choose not to transition?

Sadly, the answer in most current legal systems is "yes, they are." All it takes is a fee fee and a declaration of "I am a True And Honest [Select Gender Of Choice] Now!" and you are - legally speaking. That's it. And it's insulting on so many levels to everyone involved.
It's insulting as fuck to natal women to watch trannies and troons yaniv about claiming they're also women (and even better women, woman 2.0) because they totes liked to play with dolls when they were little, and that's obviously what it means to be a woman. Nevermind the entire shtick of being born female, being raised female, experiencing the world through the eyes of a female and being treated by the world as a female. The horrible story of David Reimer proves this very obvious and simple fact: You are not a woman just because you dress like one.
I'm pretty certain the same goes for natal men who deal with FtM trannies. Wearing cargos and a t-shirt doesn't make you male. You can probably look the part but never experience what being male actually means if you weren't born and raised that way.

Personally, I had one of my closer online friends from 20 years or so ago troon out. She's a dude now. She was always obsessed with gay relationships and obviously deeply uncomfortable with her own body (imagine a really really tall lanky girl). Because of her body shape, she passes as a dude and lives as a gay dude now. If I had to guess I would probably assume that her body issues and her obvious fetishization of gay relationships led to this, but I never asked. The whole idea of changing one's natal gender is something completely alien to me; especially since I myself have struggled to come to terms with my birth gender. I never once believed I was anything but my birth gender, and although I don't fit many of the usual stereotypes associated with it, that's who I am. Troonism seems to be an easy way out if you don't wanna accept yourself for some people, and for other people it's just a kinky sex thing. I also suspect there often is a ton of self loathing involved. Some seem to be hellbent on destroying their own bodies and minds as much as possible.

 

[Short Stack]

Sadly, the answer in most current legal systems is "yes, they are." All it takes is a fee fee and a declaration of "I am a True And Honest [Select Gender Of Choice] Now!" and you are - legally speaking. That's it. And it's insulting on so many levels to everyone involved.
It's insulting as fuck to natal women to watch trannies and troons yaniv about claiming they're also women (and even better women, woman 2.0) because they totes liked to play with dolls when they were little, and that's obviously what it means to be a woman. Nevermind the entire shtick of being born female, being raised female, experiencing the world through the eyes of a female and being treated by the world as a female. The horrible story of David Reimer proves this very obvious and simple fact: You are not a woman just because you dress like one.
I'm pretty certain the same goes for natal men who deal with FtM trannies. Wearing cargos and a t-shirt doesn't make you male. You can probably look the part but never experience what being male actually means if you weren't born and raised that way.

Personally, I had one of my closer online friends from 20 years or so ago troon out. She's a dude now. She was always obsessed with gay relationships and obviously deeply uncomfortable with her own body (imagine a really really tall lanky girl). Because of her body shape, she passes as a dude and lives as a gay dude now. If I had to guess I would probably assume that her body issues and her obvious fetishization of gay relationships led to this, but I never asked. The whole idea of changing one's natal gender is something completely alien to me; especially since I myself have struggled to come to terms with my birth gender. I never once believed I was anything but my birth gender, and although I don't fit many of the usual stereotypes associated with it, that's who I am. Troonism seems to be an easy way out if you don't wanna accept yourself for some people, and for other people it's just a kinky sex thing. I also suspect there often is a ton of self loathing involved. Some seem to be hellbent on destroying their own bodies and minds as much as possible.

I worked with one like that myself...FtM & lived as a gay male....that NEVER made any sense to me.....As a male, I like women also. Yet I've never had a desire to have my stuff cut off so I could use a strapon...That's just too insane IMHO

 

[Nasty Old Person]

I worked with one like that myself...FtM & lived as a gay male....that NEVER made any sense to me.....As a male, I like women also. Yet I've never had a desire to have my stuff cut off so I could use a strapon...That's just too insane IMHO

Lesbians (actual XX females) are born with all the equipment needed for sweet sweet lesbian sexitime, no dildos required. Men are the ones who buy dildos.

 

[Teazel]

But your comment raises a philosophical question that doesn't really belong in this thread, which is: is a tranny a tranny if they choose not to transition? Why or why not and what does that say about the solidity of the concept of "being trans" in the first place? Interesting but probably belongs in the philosophy thread on this board.

Since one doesn't "need" gender dysphoria to transition/"be" trans, I think there are at least two separate questions here.

I think that gender dysphoria is a real mental illness. But having gender dysphoria (disliking/discomfort with one's sex) isn't inherently being trans. Much like how someone having body dysmorphia and thinking they're obese but they're not... doesn't make someone anorexic.

I think the modern conceptualization of transgenderism is a reaction to the rollback towards looser gender roles in the 70s. A lot of people comment about how clothing was more gender neutral, women were encouraged to be scientists, be in the workforce, divorce, etc. The backlash has made those supposed differences (in roles/expression/clothing/mannerisms) more gendered. If you make womanhood and manhood strict boxes (that barely have anything to do with actual sex and more stereotypes), then less and less people are gonna feel like they fit.

Erving Goffman wrote about the codes of gender (there's a very easy to find documentary about this if you're interested) and how they've been reproduced/corrupted in modern advertising. A society saturated in those codes doesn't realize that they were probably never real, or at least very little of them were based in material reality.

Someone who might have been a "not like the other girls" in the past might drift towards a non-binary/trans identity now, instead of seeing themselves on the periphery of a wider concept of "womanhood". And the same for men.

And pharmaceutical companies like AbbVie, who have already gotten in trouble with the FDA for giving ridiculous kickbacks to psychiatrists and doctors for shilling drugs like Lupron to everything from precocious puberty to IVF patients found a convenient way to sell their drugs to people under the banner of progressiveness.

I think being "trans" in the now is about as real as those strict boxes of gender codes are. Which is to say that they're not... physically, tangibly real. But propaganda works.

 

[SourDiesel]

Since one doesn't "need" gender dysphoria to transition/"be" trans, I think there are at least two separate questions here.

I think that gender dysphoria is a real mental illness. But having gender dysphoria (disliking/discomfort with one's sex) isn't inherently being trans. Much like how someone having body dysmorphia and thinking they're obese but they're not... doesn't make someone anorexic.

I think the modern conceptualization of transgenderism is a reaction to the rollback towards looser gender roles in the 70s. A lot of people comment about how clothing was more gender neutral, women were encouraged to be scientists, be in the workforce, divorce, etc. The backlash has made those supposed differences (in roles/expression/clothing/mannerisms) more gendered. If you make womanhood and manhood strict boxes (that barely have anything to do with actual sex and more stereotypes), then less and less people are gonna feel like they fit.

Erving Goffman wrote about the codes of gender (there's a very easy to find documentary about this if you're interested) and how they've been reproduced/corrupted in modern advertising. A society saturated in those codes doesn't realize that they were probably never real, or at least very little of them were based in material reality.

Someone who might have been a "not like the other girls" in the past might drift towards a non-binary/trans identity now, instead of seeing themselves on the periphery of a wider concept of "womanhood". And the same for men.

And pharmaceutical companies like AbbVie, who have already gotten in trouble with the FDA for giving ridiculous kickbacks to psychiatrists and doctors for shilling drugs like Lupron to everything from precocious puberty to IVF patients found a convenient way to sell their drugs to people under the banner of progressiveness.

I think being "trans" in the now is about as real as those strict boxes of gender codes are. Which is to say that they're not... physically, tangibly real. But propaganda works.

I agree with this in its entirety. But if you can think of the names of the Erving Goffman writings on this topic, I would love to hear it. In case I can't find it on my own. I'm quite a fan of his book 'Asylums: on the social situation of mental patients and other inmates' but I've never read his work on gender He's really a great thinker. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[Teazel]

I agree with this in its entirety. But if you can think of the names of the Erving Goffman writings on this topic, I would love to hear it. In case I can't find it on my own. I'm quite a fan of his book 'Asylums: on the social situation of mental patients and other inmates' but I've never read his work on gender He's really a great thinker. Thanks for the recommendation.

Shit, the Goffman book is called Gender Advertisements. This appears to be a pdf? https://www.academia.edu/16756770/Erving_Goffman-Gender_Advertisements_1988_ (I just gave it a very cursory look.) The documentary based on it is by Sut Jhally and it's called The Codes of Gender.

 

[SourDiesel]

Shit, the Goffman book is called Gender Advertisements. This appears to be a pdf? https://www.academia.edu/16756770/Erving_Goffman-Gender_Advertisements_1988_ (I just gave it a very cursory look.) The documentary based on it is by Sut Jhally and it's called The Codes of Gender.

Hey thanks so much! I'll have to give it a read when I get a chance.

 

[Dimetrod0n]

People like Jon and Rhys put people like Blaire and say... Rose of Dawn in danger. Even if you view them as girly fag men, they still are feminine and not well... 6foot tall hulks. They are more like women. I don't care if people view them as fags, I still think they need protection from perverts, because they're doing things right.
Like you know... things who go to tribunals and want biological women to wax balls or men in dresses who demand gimmedats from rape centres.

I honestly agree with everything you said and especially this part, even if it isn’t the most popular take on here. Regardless of the other shit Blaire and trans women like her do, whether you think they’re cringe or not, the fact that they’re willing to admit that there should be a bar of entry, that trans people who don’t transition aren’t same as fully transitioned people and shouldn’t be afforded the same luxuries or privileges makes her so much easier to take seriously. I once heard her say that she wouldn’t go into a changing room where she would have to strip completely naked because she wouldn’t want to make the biological women in there uncomfortable at the sight of her peen and that’s just so much more respectable than people who cry that cis women who are a bothered by seeing a penis are filthy bigots and that there’s no such thing as biological sex. Trans people and the trans movement nowadays is so fucking ugly, it’s all about people being able to do whatever the fuck they want and for no one to question them, regardless of how many people they make uncomfortable.

Most troons nowadays are just doing nothing to pass and are fucking lazy or they’re “they/them”s so of course they argue that. EVERYONE is valid and anyone who says they’re trans is trans, otherwise they would have been kicked from the movement long ago because they’re not actually trans.

And even if Blaire and people like her are still clockable, they’re still clearly dedicated to trying to pass as actual women and they don’t do weird pervy shit towards women so I have a way easier time accepting that they are women or at least closer to natural women than someone like Yaniv is.

When I see troons arguing that “uwu bigots” aka people with brains who oppose troon viewpoints have a poor understanding of biology I absolutely gawk. It’s the stupidest reverse uno card I’ve ever seen pulled. The whole lady brain vs man brain thing has been debunked multiple times, and that’s the only thing supporting their ideals. No honest doctor would tell you sex is a social construct, when even things like heart disease varies between women and men. And no one who knows anything about human behavior would deny that we act differently around women and men and that we are hard wired to recognize sex, especially considering all other mammals are also hard wired to recognize it - it’s lunacy.