Joaquin Phoenix as the Joker - Might not be a disaster

What will the combined score of shootings blamed on "Joker" be after opening weekend?

  • 0

    Votes: 13 11.7%
  • 1-10

    Votes: 23 20.7%
  • 11-20

    Votes: 3 2.7%
  • 21-39

    Votes: 5 4.5%
  • 40+

    Votes: 67 60.4%

  • Total voters
    111
  • Poll closed .

Tasty Tatty

kiwifarms.net
Speed Racer, not exactly a (super) hero, came around the time of Iron Man and the message was that corporations are the enemy of the individual. Oh the iron-y.

I'll argue Thomas, while an asshole, is the scapegoat for the lower class mob in the film. He did say something stupid with the clowns quote, and treat Aurther like an asshole, he wanted to change the system for the better.
Like Drumphf? He's hated because he's politically incorrect, not because what he does is necessarily bad.

But the Joker won at the end of Dark Knight. He corrupted Harvey Dent.
He didn't corrupted him as much as he killed his girlfriend and destroyed his life and body. Batman still managed to cover it all up to save the people from finding out. The target were always the people, not Batman. I wouldn't say Batman won either, but he rather neutralized the Joker's attempts to make them lose hope (I don't know what happens in the next movie because I haven't watched it).
 

Truthboi

The True and Honest Man
kiwifarms.net
But the Joker won at the end of Dark Knight. He corrupted Harvey Dent.
I don’t think Joker really won with that as his goal was to corrupt the people and show them how society to go downhill. While Batman and Gordon failed to save Harvey, it was largely covered up so the public would still think of him as a hero till Bane exposed it in the Dark Knight Rises.


Yep! People like to act that Infinity War is the first film in super hero films that the hero doesn't wins. I argue TDK is. Joker took a symbol of the people and turned it against them. The only reason people didn't know is because Batman and Gordon hid the fact Harvey was evil.
I think people treat IW that way is because they have been so used to seeing the Avengers win at the end of every movie, and the way Thanos won was presented as a disturbing apocalyptic event so it’s more noticeable to see.
 

friedshrimp

uwuu
kiwifarms.net
As a MCU fan I very much disagree with that idea. Lot of fans respect the past.
Sorry, then. Maybe I've been hanging around way too many of the bad Disney/Marvel fans on Tumblr that waste their times shipping gay pairings and throwing venomous statements about how only the MCU does superheroes right.

To get back to the movie, I liked how there were so many allusions to Batman lore at large. I spotted The Killing Joke, The Dark Knight Returns and Batman 1989 as inspirations for certain plot points.

One thing I find that was completely blown out of the water was the violence, the scenes out of context are no more terrifying than your average gore feast you find in an R-rated horror film.
 

AnOminous

I'm not mad at anyone, honest.
True & Honest Fan
Retired Staff
kiwifarms.net
I don’t think Joker really won with that as his goal was to corrupt the people and show them how society to go downhill.
[Talking about Dark Knight.]

He didn't win, but he didn't really lose either. He didn't get the "good people" to act like the "bad people" and blow each other up, and in fact the "bad people" rose to the occasion too.

He didn't lose his shit about it or melt down, though, he was just like "fuck it I'll do it myself."
 

Duncan Hills Coffee

Awakes you from a thousand deaths
kiwifarms.net
[Talking about Dark Knight.]

He didn't win, but he didn't really lose either. He didn't get the "good people" to act like the "bad people" and blow each other up, and in fact the "bad people" rose to the occasion too.

He didn't lose his shit about it or melt down, though, he was just like "fuck it I'll do it myself."
Yes but he succeeded in corrupting Harvey Dent, the shining force of good in the city. Even if the people of Gotham didn't do what he wanted, he still managed to turn Gotham's White Knight.

What makes the ending of The Dark Knight so ingenious is that the Joker places Batman in a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't scenario. Either the truth comes out about Harvey and they lose their faith in what's good about Gotham (which is what happens in Rises), or Batman and Gordon lie about it so they can keep Harvey's legacy alive despite the evil deeds he had committed.

Even though the ferry plan failed and the truth about Harvey wouldn't come out until years later, the Joker still forced Batman to go against his own morals. So I'd say it was more of a half-victory.
 

Tasty Tatty

kiwifarms.net
The fact we're talking about whether he won or not it's a good statement of the movie. With Nolan Joker, the consequences of his actions were permanent. Harvey and Rachel were making a change to the point Wayne even considered he didn't have to be Batman anymore. Joker destroyed that. Yet, he couldn't destroy the hope that Harvey inspired on them.

In IW, Thanos won the battle, but he lost the war. He was murdered and everybody came back. And he was defeated by Time Travel, which is basically Deus ex Machina.

I'm not saying DC is better than Marvel (to me, it is, but to each their own), just that the MCU taking over the market has given people very odd expectations of what to expect from a comic book movie. Everyone is quite defined to be either good or bad. Take Magneto from X-2: he never stops being a villain even though he helps the x-men to save Xavier back. Once he's safe, he tries to kill every non-mutant. And yet, he's relatable. You don't see that with new Magneto who actually murders millions of people and they just shrug it off. And then, Superman kills one villain and everybody loses their minds.
 
Tags
None

About Us

The Kiwi Farms is about eccentric individuals and communities on the Internet. We call them lolcows because they can be milked for amusement or laughs. Our community is bizarrely diverse and spectators are encouraged to join the discussion.

We do not place intrusive ads, host malware, sell data, or run crypto miners with your browser. If you experience these things, you have a virus. If your malware system says otherwise, it is faulty.

Supporting the Forum

How to Help

The Kiwi Farms is constantly attacked by insane people and very expensive to run. It would not be here without community support.

BTC: 1DgS5RfHw7xA82Yxa5BtgZL65ngwSk6bmm
ETH: 0xc1071c60Ae27C8CC3c834E11289205f8F9C78CA5
BAT: 0xc1071c60Ae27C8CC3c834E11289205f8F9C78CA5
LTC: LSZsFCLUreXAZ9oyc9JRUiRwbhkLCsFi4q
XMR: 438fUMciiahbYemDyww6afT1atgqK3tSTX25SEmYknpmenTR6wvXDMeco1ThX2E8gBQgm9eKd1KAtEQvKzNMFrmjJJpiino