Joaquin Phoenix as the Joker - Might not be a disaster

What will the combined score of shootings blamed on "Joker" be after opening weekend?

  • 0

    Votes: 13 11.7%
  • 1-10

    Votes: 23 20.7%
  • 11-20

    Votes: 3 2.7%
  • 21-39

    Votes: 5 4.5%
  • 40+

    Votes: 67 60.4%

  • Total voters
    111
  • Poll closed .

averagejane

please pluck your nose hairs.
kiwifarms.net
i don't know what to say that hasn't already been said, but yes the movie is really good. It made me uncomfortable, in a good way?, and none of that had to do with the 'violence'.
I admit it took some time for me to get into the movie, I wasn't feeling the beginning. But once he met bruce was when the movie really kicked off for me. I was tense and at the edge of my seat throughout. And though I could see some of the plot points coming from a mile away, it was still done in a way that surprised me.

Personally? I don't think it needs a sequel or a continuation or a franchise or anything. Why can't we just keep getting one off pieces like this? That way writers and directors can spend more time on the quality? I mean I know it was pretty much confirmed sticking the Joker name on it was to get butts in seats. But still.
 

RumblyTumbly

kiwifarms.net
By the way, the violence in this movie was way over blown.

I've seen way more violent movies from decades ago, like Silence of the Lambs and the like. There was really only one scene in the movie of truly gruesome violence.

That's not to say the movie isn't tense and uncomfortable. It totally is.

But the pre-release hysteria made it sound like it was going to be a blood bath and it definitely wasn't. It wouldn't have taken too much work for an editor to cut out the violence and the F bombs and this could have been PG-13. You lose something in the process if you do that, but like I said, it wouldn't have been that hard to transform it into a PG-13 film.

I'd argue that Logan was easily a more violent movie than Joker to be honest. That movie has a kid decapitating people.

Once again, the loonies blew everything out of proportion.
 

averagejane

please pluck your nose hairs.
kiwifarms.net
By the way, the violence in this movie was way over blown.
i completely agree.

I'm honestly a bit confused by this discussion of violence I am seeing. I hate to keep bringing up MCU but that's the shit these goofballs worship so, yeah. I remember when Man of Steel came out when everyone was up in arms over the destruction, on tumblr people posted gifs praising black widow telling civilians to get somewhere safe (i mean supes did it too during one of the fights but that's besides the point). But I don't understand these arguments because... destruction still happens in MCU movies. Even if you don't see people fearing for their lives, it's still happening.
They're all jerking off to Loki getting a series, when they initially wanted a movie of him, didn't he chimp out like an entitled incel faggot during the first avengers movie? And cause what could amount to a shit ton of unnecessary deaths?
It's making me think these people need conflict to be incredibly sugarcoated and safe for them. They are actual babies that need to focus on something other than death in their capeshit.
I'm not saying they all need to be dark and gritty, but they put these comparisons on themselves when they bring up their lord and savior Tony and Co.
 

Secret Asshole

Expert in things that never, ever happened
Supervisor
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Tell me again that a white man can't have the blues.
No you see only black people can have problems. There's no such thing as the human condition. There are only races. Black people can be the only ones suffering because white people are super oppressors and the universe and reality magically bend so nothing terrible ever happens to them.

People who think like this should be unironically shot.
 

Secret Asshole

Expert in things that never, ever happened
Supervisor
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
It's the same reason they hated the recent Judge Dredd movie as well. This Joker movie has really illuminated something. These people are still children. They truly dont have a concept of what evil actually looks like in the real world. It's never some dark lord who goes about in a black Cape looking all evil and being bad because he wants to be bad. Evil can be some mentally ill loner who cares for his mother and gets kicked one too many times. Or in the case of Dredd, a beaten up former whore who has had a few screws knocked loose and doing what she thinks she has to do to survive in a society that has to eat it's own dead to function.

They simply cannot deal with Evil that is not only plausible but known to be real. And they certainly cannot deal with the confrontation of what actual violence is. Hell even the Berkley riots were just a bunch of Kids Larping at being revolutionaries. Not one of those black clad morons were actually setting out to kill someone. The more recent incident with the bike lock dude, even he probably was not actually thinking he was going to kill the dude he brained with it.

And such an uncompromising depiction of what evil actually is and what violence actually is makes them realize that if they encountered the Joker on a subway train at 1 AM, they would not be the bat man. They would just be a simple salaryman who incidentally, also does not have a gun either, or the will to use it.

And that is absolutely terrifying.
Evil rarely ever stares you down in the face. Not to mention that evil is a reflection of good and hard to tell apart. Janus, Ying-Yang and other theological questions have always dealt with this.

The best villains are villains that would be heroes or are nearly indistinguishable from them. Because that's what evil IS. People laugh at Dick Cheney and call him evil, but he's a man who loves his children, his family. Its incredibly complicated and everyone wants evil to be boiled down to some sneering dude twisting his mustaches. Why do you think they use the much copied 'Trump is Voldermort'? Because they cannot truly understand the depths of what evil actually is. The man, for all accounts, loves and cares for his family. Has many friends. The problem is his political views don't align with your own.

Once you begin talking about the 'greater good', you've lost sight of it. Because if you believe in the greater good, you are disregarding other people for a goal you see as good. You are purposefully ignoring their pain, their families, their problems, in order to solve something bigger. You've become a callous individual and are hoping that the change you make overwrites the sins you are going to commit in furtherance of that goal. I'll tell you right now, it never does. Because once you bloody your hands, that never comes off. And you have to continue to sin, continue to use people. Continue to hurt them, for your goal. And eventually, you don't see other people as people. You see them obstacles to your goal. There's no way you can see yourself objectively anymore.

These people can't take a step back and watch themselves. They believe because they believe in 'righteous' causes, their actions by default cannot be evil. Because evil is always obvious, right? And its not speech. Its actions. Its brigading some guy on Twitter because he made a joke you didn't like, trying to make him lose his job. Its making allegations decades after the fact because you convinced yourself they were true. Its throwing molotov cocktails, destroying property. Its hurting people in the name of your message, because your message is just, and these are all pawns. They don't have emotions. Cares. Feelings. Families. People they love. Dreams. They're nothing. They're alt-right. They're incels. Fuck them. They don't deserve it. We are the right ones.

Once you begin to dehumanize people, view them as objects, demons, devils or not even as people anymore, you are stepping down a road you will never be able to come back from.
 

RumblyTumbly

kiwifarms.net
I made a joke a while back that we might as well just refer to the Civil War as being fought by The Autobots and The Decepticons because the way they talk about how evil the South was, we might as well just go full on exceptional and one dimensional with it.

But that joke is looking more and more like how some people actually do view the world. White and Black, evil is obvious and not nuanced in anyway, and anyone on my side is a paragon of virtue.

Its really weird.
 
Last edited:

Manwithn0n0men

kiwifarms.net
I really need to see Man of Steel again. I saw it in theaters and I remember not hating it. I didn't love it, but I wasn't offended by it, so I was surprised by the "Worst Movie Ever" level hate that it received from some people online.

I'd like to see it again just to see what the big deal is.
It has to do with a couple of things. Biggest being Zack Snyder the edge lord doesnt know how to do Clark Kent or Small town america right and is actively dismissive of it
 

Duncan Hills Coffee

Awakes you from a thousand deaths
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Tasty Tatty

kiwifarms.net
I really need to see Man of Steel again. I saw it in theaters and I remember not hating it. I didn't love it, but I wasn't offended by it, so I was surprised by the "Worst Movie Ever" level hate that it received from some people online.

I'd like to see it again just to see what the big deal is.
That happened to me with Suicide Squad. I never figured out why people were hating it so much. I just watched it and... I enjoyed it. I honestly think that, as flawed as it is (bc it is), most of the hate for it (and Man of Stell) comes from people being told they should hate it.

Oh so the Oscars let politics impact their decisions and don't actually pick the best things to be nominated.

In other news, the sky is blue.
The movie won't cause a shooting, but a Phoenix snub will.
 
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