Manosphere Jordan Peterson - Internet Daddy Simulator, Post-modern Anti-postmodernist, Canadian Psychology Professor, Depressed

Koochiching

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The Communist Manifesto is a short propaganda pamphlet designed to get people excited about the possibilities of communism. It's an interesting historical curiosity in the vast body of Marx's copius output. If Peterson really wanted to engage with Marx's thought, but not slog through 800 pages of Das Kapital, vol 1, he should have read The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Napoleon, which is about historical analysis and which is were we get the phrase "First as tragedy, then as farce", or Friedrich Engels' Anti-Dühring, which is a basic survey of how communism is supposed to come about, function, and how it differs from socialism. Both are books one could finish easily in a weekend, and come away with a very clear understanding of the sort of thinking that Marx and Engels were writing about.

Though it was hilarious listening to Peterson basically admit that he couldn't understand Zizek's writing, and had to resort to the one book on communism that everyone's heard of.
And if Anti-Dühring is too much for him he can just read through Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, an excerpt of the former which like the Manifesto was published as a polemic meant for a large audience that has not previously read much about the topic.

Also interesting in my view (though not necessarily entirely relevant to his theories on socialism and communism) are Marx's frequent contributions to the New York Daily Tribune. They give you a little background into the politics of the day and a sense of what political context Marx was writing in. Some of them are available easily with Marx and Engels' other writings on marxists.org, including a couple articles by Zizek himself on Lenin. It shouldn't take too much digging for Peterson or any other enterprising theorist looking to analyze the writings of Marx and Engels or almost any prominent Marxist or otherwise left-wing writer to find what they need. It's one thing for Peterson to come into a debate on Marxism with little more than a normie-level understanding of what Marx was on about, but another thing entirely to come into said debate without even glancing at his interlocutor's work, with several months' time for preparation.
 

Cool kitties club

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And if Anti-Dühring is too much for him he can just read through Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, an excerpt of the former which like the Manifesto was published as a polemic meant for a large audience that has not previously read much about the topic.

Also interesting in my view (though not necessarily entirely relevant to his theories on socialism and communism) are Marx's frequent contributions to the New York Daily Tribune. They give you a little background into the politics of the day and a sense of what political context Marx was writing in. Some of them are available easily with Marx and Engels' other writings on marxists.org, including a couple articles by Zizek himself on Lenin. It shouldn't take too much digging for Peterson or any other enterprising theorist looking to analyze the writings of Marx and Engels or almost any prominent Marxist or otherwise left-wing writer to find what they need. It's one thing for Peterson to come into a debate on Marxism with little more than a normie-level understanding of what Marx was on about, but another thing entirely to come into said debate without even glancing at his interlocutor's work, with several months' time for preparation.
He could also have read The Society of the Spectacle or One Dimensional Man for a more cultural critique of capitalism. Hell if he wanted a postmodern Marxist Jean Baudrillard would do.
 

UngaWunga

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He could also have read The Society of the Spectacle or One Dimensional Man for a more cultural critique of capitalism. Hell if he wanted a postmodern Marxist Jean Baudrillard would do.
I mean, if Jorp had the genuine curiosity and intellectual honesty to sincerely study and understand Marxism as something more than "blue hair sjw trans Last Jedi fans" post about, he's probably just turn into Prissy Zizek once he realizes it's about the relationship between economic classes and power dynamics.

He doesn't really understand what Capitalism is, except that it's part of some nebulous "Western Tradition" that has to be defended from the Disney ice lesbians and the Cider Sippers. Which is weird, because things like the destruction of the working family, the commodification of our culture, the de-valuing and dehumanization of modern people, young men too sad and mopey to clean their rooms, and a lot of things he's in favor of are being destroyed by Capitalism.

Traditional families aren't dying because of campus feminism. They're dying because people are increasingly alienated from themselves and each other. Dating, sex, meeting a nice girl? That isn't PRODUCIVE! You better find a way to monetize that. And even if you did meet someone, just lol at the idea you're every going to have the time or money to have a family.

Atheism and secularism haven't been kind to Xianity (Though even among the non-religious there's been a huge backlash against the more obnoxious atheists), but religion just isn't relevant in Capitalism's endgame. The Market is god. It even has an Invisible Hand.

Masculinity isn't even THAT much under threat, at least to anyone who has much of a life in the real world (Aka not online and not on campus). Most dudes are still about like they used to be. Generally more respectful towards women than they were 10 years ago in my experience. But it's very profitable to make masculinity appear under attack, because it creates an illusion of scarcity, which allows men to have their gender fears exploited by dumb advertising, and creates a whole market where you can take regular products and slap some DUDE SHIT on them and now you've got a whole new marketing gimmick. And of course, Mr. Peterson has found a lot of success with that market.

Marxism and leftists aren't the ones trying to make a bland society devoid of any meaning, value. We're SOCIALISTS. We want a robust, healthy SOCIETY that provides the most amount of security and freedom for the most people, and allows them to have interests and beliefs that aren't tainted by the present creeping need to make everything into a hustle or side gig. Leftists have a bunch fo reatded slap fights amongst themselves sure. College SJW types are annoying sure. So are college aged young republicans and Jorp fans. ALL YOUNG IDEALOGUES ARE ANNOYING.

But we aren't the ones trying to steal your identity just to sell it back to you and make you think you got a hell of a deal on it.

Also fucken lol you were able to name a Post-modern Marxist. You've already done better at a debate you weren't at than he did.

He could have learned mroe about Marx AND Zizek by watching this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpAMbpQ8J7g
 

Lemmingwise

Through a scanner smuckly
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Traditional families aren't dying because of campus feminism. They're dying because people are increasingly alienated from themselves and each other. Dating, sex, meeting a nice girl? That isn't PRODUCIVE! You better find a way to monetize that. And even if you did meet someone, just lol at the idea you're every going to have the time or money to have a family.
I agreed with your post until this part.
The idea that (campus) feminism isn't also an enemy of traditional families is completely upside down.

Feminism holds the traditional family and its gender roles as one of the primary enemies to progress.

Campus feminism, probably more than other types of feminism, affects how the educated of tomorrow are implementing feminist ideals and are part of the reason why men generally get a raw deal legally speaking from marriage, as even without children and even with a prenuptial agreement, it's possible that divorce entitles the exwife to a sizeable part of the assets of the exhusband. Technically the reverse is also possible and it does happen, but only with non-traditional family unit, so it still stands.

Every single gender studies graduate I've gotten to know was looking forward to creating very nontraditional families, whether their ideal was a polyamorous group that had multiple children and raised them as 5 equal parents, to not wanting kids, to wanting kids as a triad and already figuring out the legal requirements to have 3 legal parents (lesbian marriage while recognizing lseed donor" as a father with parental rights, not US law btw) to name a few examples.

Of any people I've met they had the fewest people interested in having kids.

The argument goes that traditional gender roles and traditional family is oppressive to women, it's part of patriarchy. And you may agree with that, I can see why people would. But that puts feminists including campus feminists against traditional family. This isn't typically denied by campus feminists either, they would argue that it's good to oppose the traditional family.
 
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UngaWunga

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I agreed with your post until this part.
The idea that (campus) feminism isn't also an enemy of traditional families is completely upside down.

Feminism holds the traditional family and its gender roles as one of the primary enemies to progress.

Campus feminism, probably more than other types of feminism, affects how the educated of tomorrow are implementing feminist ideals and are part of the reason why men generally get a raw deal legally speaking from marriage, as even without children and even with a prenuptial agreement, it's possible that divorce entitles the exwife to a sizeable part of the assets of the exhusband. Technically the reverse is also possible and it does happen, but only with non-traditional family unit, so it still stands.

Every single gender studies graduate I've gotten to know was looking forward to creating very nontraditional families, whether their ideal was a polyamorous group that had multiple children and raised them as 5 equal parents, to not wanting kids, to wanting kids as a triad and already figuring out the legal requirements to have 3 legal parents (lesbian marriage while recognizing lseed donor" as a father with parental rights, not US law btw) to name a few examples.

Of any people I've met they had the fewest people interested in having kids.
Oh god. I wish you were arguing in bad faith because you're making me do one thing I hate to do which is actually call myself a feminist. I try not to. I accept the vast majority of feminist basic ideas and tendencies of analysis (Though I didnt learn them in college. I think academia is largely a scam, and all the best writing on feminism are available either free online, or cheaper than a decade of student debt at Barnes n Nobles), but the "self identified male feminist" is one of the most sus things around.

But, despite being (more or less) "cis" male, I've never attacked or threatened by any of the precepts of any form of feminism that any regular ass people are going to adopt. And I accept some of the more radical ideas. But in over 30 years on this dead gay planet I can count the number of chicks what's actually sincerely misandrist on more than one hand but less than two hands and my dick.

But like I said in one of my above posts, I was specifically not counting campuses as part of the real world, because they are decidedly not. I'm sure most Women's Studies types are a little goofball. I tend to avoid them, as I tend to avoid most college students. You don't find a hell of lot of them, at least who mention their degree" in the real world because that's a course of study for people who love the ivory tower (Ironically white and phallic) and will probably end up either in or adjacent to academia. Or even worse, become playwrights doing terrible one woman Fringe Festival shows.

There aren't that many of them either. A very cursory googling indicates that in 2016 there were a total of 2,677 women's studies degrees awarded. That's out of the nearly 4 million college degrees (Of all types, assosciates to phD) issued in one year in the US. It's really small. There's more annoying college feminists than that for sure, but like I said, once you're our in the real world that shit becomes far less noticeable. Shit, I live in one of the most obnoxiously wannabe woke Love Me I'm a Liberal cities in the country and I see it a little more than I used to in the Midwest, but it's still fairly uncommon.

I'm personally not interested in having kids, though the older I get and the more the opportunity recedes the more I wonder if I shouldn't. But how could I? For one, a lot of women are ambivalent about long term relationships, and at least when it comes to girls over the age of 24 it has way more to do with some shitty ex that fucked up their ability to trust anyone, or the same kind of weird ambivalence and self alienation a lot of people feel. And don't even get me started on women over 30, who are dealing wiht a lot of the same sense of premature obsolescence a lot of us early millennials feel, but get all that plus the sense that somehow being a single woman over 30 makes them a failure, and I cannot even with that. But the impossibility of finding a nice girl my age has made my dating skew lower like into the 21-24 range, and I'm pretty impressed that the majority of girls I've met are pretty solid feminists but don't have anything against masculine traits as long as you aren't some kind of careless ogre. Also, they seem a lot more self-aware than my peer group was 10 years ago. I have my own goals and things I'm about, and I prefer a partner who has her own ambitions and plans, because holy shit I have dated way too many girls who have no will of their own and need someone to tell them what we're doing and make decisions for them, and invent a sense of self worth for them to have,

And the rare ones I do meet that are about that, sometimes a little annoying sometimes full blown jerk, they tend to be academics.

Academics are basically just a specialized form of NEET, after all.

And sure they're all about their nontraditional families and polycules now, and all their weird Fetlife shit. That's good fun. Experimentation is important. Social norms and that stuff evolves. I was poly for a while. Lol that shit sucked. Most people who give that shit a go ahead don't stick with it, because holy shit is that shit tedious and annoying, and even the good parts like fucking other people usually mean fucking other POLY people which is....y'know.

But anyhow, the "Traditional atomic american family" and, particularly "family values" are largely a post WW2 development, enabled by a startling influx of national wealth and security, and a whole bunch of deeply traumatized dudes coming back from being in one of the greatest nightmares humanity has ever dreamed, who just wanted peace and tranquility and to FUCK HOLY SHIT I MISS MY GIRL I WANNA FUCK, and who were able to make so much money thanks to a robust economy and politically empowered working class so that Mom could stay home and raise the kids, instead of Mom having to go work at the textile sweatshop with your daughter. Your daughter has to work in this case because your first five kids died in a mining accident at their 6 day a week job before their balls even dropped. But who gives a shit if its two dads or two moms or an extended family. That's still a family, and I think that "Traditional family" is really a distraction from the fact that almost any family structure, especially extended families, are being eroded.

tl;dr Old Man says The Kids Are Alright.

Honestly, this is something I tell my leftist friends a lot about young right wing types and Jorp fans too. If he'd hit the scene 12 years ago my dumb young libertarian ass would have probably thought he was cool. (Not relaly though. I was a philosophy and Lit major and Jorp's lack of intellectual rigor, sloppy reasoning, and overall fusspot prissypants nature would have been annoying). ((I got out of philosophy school when I realized this is a fuckin scam and at least half this curriculum is public domain, and I didn't feel the need to get into massive debt for a piece of paper saying I'm good at reading books))

The campus feminist girl might not marry you for ideological reasons, but most of the other girls won't because the old fucks made a bajillion dollars, but good luck getting any of it off of them. How are you even gonna pay to have that baby? Your gig economy job or mechanical turk gig doesn't have any medical benefits. Babies are expensive and time consuming, and folks are working two jobs a week and still have to have a room mate.

Apologies for the length of this, but stimulants make my fingers dance.

Also lol this is a better "debate" than Jorp vs Zizzy

Edit: I could have structured this post better with your quotes but....I didn't. Apologies.

Of any people I've met they had the fewest people interested in having kids.
Addendum, and this is probably a low blow but...


It's not like you'd want to have kids with them anyways.

(I don't generally find them sexually desirable)
 
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Lemmingwise

Through a scanner smuckly
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If he'd hit the scene 12 years ago my dumb young libertarian ass would have probably thought he was cool.
He did hit the scene (almost) 12 years old wearing his dainty little fedora:


But the time wasn't right and he tried again in 2016 with a frog's hat.


As for your essay; I'm not saying capitalism isn't eroding traditional families, whether as nuclear family or extended families or whatever. I have no doubt that it is. And yes, the alienation from meatspace is part of that. So is practically every part of feminism on attack against traditional families. Again, people might disagree whether that's good or bad.

In your entire stimulant driven essay, I have read nothing that would cause me to reconsider that and I doubt it could even really cause anyone to reconsider that. Which is a shame, because I'm always on the lookout to have my mind changed.

I did enjoy getting a slice of life though.
 

UngaWunga

Time Vapire
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He did hit the scene (almost) 12 years old wearing his dainty little fedora:


But the time wasn't right and he tried again in 2016 with a frog's hat.

WELP! I was trying to give the guy some credit but yowzers. On the other hand...it makes total sense that Jorp was the original of the species.

I did try to stress that those are just from my experiences. If there's one thing Robert Anton Wilson taught me it's to always be hella supicious of the universality of your experiences, and your perception of reality.

That said, really we don't seem to disagree on much in too much of that apart from the scope of the issue. I'm not much of a poster here for (essay redacted) but I've noticed most people who've taken the time to respond to me have done so sincerely in good faith, and that we are collectively vexed by many of the same problems and deprivations, even annoyances about culture. We take different approaches to critique and have a lot of differences which it would be stupid to gloss over, but for now, particularly in honor of this piece of Ideological Philosotainment, I'm more interested in seeing what commonalities we can establish.

Also, the stereotype of the Left as pearl clutching man hating austistic screeching babies pisses me off. I do know those people exist, but that's so over-represented, much like I suspect "Incel fedora I guess my "Alcoholic drug weirdo" persona isn't the best representation either but eh fuck it. At least half y'all are drunk fat drug weirdos too.

I'd explain feminism more but nothing says "This man is a probably rapist and overall dink and maybe The Wicker Man was a good idea" than male feminists mansplaining feminism at length, and I've gone long enough I'm, Dr. Strangelove-like, slapping my arm down as it reaches for my phone to send some Tinder messages about how strong and cool and tough Captain Marvel is and how Black Panther should have been played by a white woman.
 

Lemmingwise

Through a scanner smuckly
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Also, the stereotype of the Left as pearl clutching man hating austistic screeching babies pisses me off. I do know those people exist, but that's so over-represented, much like I suspect "Incel fedora I guess my "Alcoholic drug weirdo" persona isn't the best representation either but eh fuck it. At least half y'all are drunk fat drug weirdos too.
Why would saying feminism opposes the traditional family cause you to think of the left as pearl clutching man hating screeching babies? I think very few, if any, feminists would disagree with me when I write that feminism opposes the traditional family.
 

UngaWunga

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Why would saying feminism opposes the traditional family cause you to think of the left as pearl clutching man hating screeching babies? I think very few, if any, feminists would disagree with me when I write that feminism opposes the traditional family.
Fair enough. I’m making some unfair assumptions about other folks views there.

I’m not really a big fan of traditional gender roles myself, and like I said I view the traditional family as a mostly recent not especially traditional innovation anyways and my use of it in the original post wasn’t quite what I meant. More than the mom and dad and kids atomic family, I should have described overall families in general. Especially the extended family, which absolutely has got its shit wrecked by Capitalism. Old folks aren’t useful to you any more? There’s a whole industry dedicated to keeping those troublesome
Old bags oit Of your business.

We probably are going to be experiencing some population decrease from that and a bunch of other weird dysfunctions of a dying society. Overpopulation isn’t a real problem, but OTOH it’s not like there’s any shortage of humans. The old Nuclear family will become less common but it ain’t going anywhere.

But in re: how much impact feminism has on that, I doubt we’re going to come to a consensus there and I’m fine with that.
 

Lemmingwise

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But in re: how much impact feminism has on that, I doubt we’re going to come to a consensus there and I’m fine with that.
Why though? Do you disagree that feminism has an impact on anything or do you disagree that feminism opposes traditional family (regardles of whether that's good or bad)?
 

UngaWunga

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Why though? Do you disagree that feminism has an impact on anything or do you disagree that feminism opposes traditional family (regardles of whether that's good or bad)?
I'd agree about what constitutes "Traditional Family Values" and whetehr those are actually good or bad. Like I said, I used the wrong term. I definitely wouldn't disagree that most forms of feminism do, if not oppose wholly at least argue against the "Traditional Family" as we tend to talk about it in the US being the standard. Some feminists are against it wholly, but plenty of other feminists have no problem telling them basically "Eat shit i'll do what I want." Most schools of feminism that have ever actually accomplished anything are more about securing equality of opportunities so women can be free to free to be subby defferential femmes if they want without that being the expectation. Telling women they can't be that seems hella anti-femnist to me because it's just as restricitve as what it's against, it's just trying to do the same but in reverse.

I also think that what college kids think doesn't even matter that much because they're still all theory and no practice. The ones who keep those kids of inflexible, simplistic views tend to be the types who have enough privilege or build a robust enough hugbox to protect them from ever having to deal with the unpleasant business of the real world. Academic types, daddy's money girls (RedKahina comes to mind) or Shakesville's Ol' Spoony Mel come to mind as some examples.

Also, that kind of feminism usually pays lip service to intersectionality, but only in ID terms and they have zero to no class consciousness in their feminism, and without that you just end up with your Brie Larson's and "MORE WOMEN BILLIONAIRE ROBBER BARRONS!" morons.

I am willing to concede though, that I just know from my experience, and I avoid the more obnoxious Radical Feminists who reject egalitarianism. There are definitely some snakes in the discourse who are just authoritarians who'd rather BE the oppressive power structure than over throw it. They're worth keeping an eye on but they're pretty low on my list of worries.

Also, hot take, women hate each other way more than even the most rabid RadFem hates men.
 

Lemmingwise

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I'd agree about what constitutes "Traditional Family Values" and whetehr those are actually good or bad. Like I said, I used the wrong term. I definitely wouldn't disagree that most forms of feminism do, if not oppose wholly at least argue against the "Traditional Family" as we tend to talk about it in the US being the standard. Some feminists are against it wholly, but plenty of other feminists have no problem telling them basically "Eat shit i'll do what I want." Most schools of feminism that have ever actually accomplished anything are more about securing equality of opportunities so women can be free to free to be subby defferential femmes if they want without that being the expectation. Telling women they can't be that seems hella anti-femnist to me because it's just as restricitve as what it's against, it's just trying to do the same but in reverse.

I also think that what college kids think doesn't even matter that much because they're still all theory and no practice. The ones who keep those kids of inflexible, simplistic views tend to be the types who have enough privilege or build a robust enough hugbox to protect them from ever having to deal with the unpleasant business of the real world. Academic types, daddy's money girls (RedKahina comes to mind) or Shakesville's Ol' Spoony Mel come to mind as some examples.

Also, that kind of feminism usually pays lip service to intersectionality, but only in ID terms and they have zero to no class consciousness in their feminism, and without that you just end up with your Brie Larson's and "MORE WOMEN BILLIONAIRE ROBBER BARRONS!" morons.

I am willing to concede though, that I just know from my experience, and I avoid the more obnoxious Radical Feminists who reject egalitarianism. There are definitely some snakes in the discourse who are just authoritarians who'd rather BE the oppressive power structure than over throw it. They're worth keeping an eye on but they're pretty low on my list of worries.

Also, hot take, women hate each other way more than even the most rabid RadFem hates men.
Do you not think that feminism had any effect on either the increase in divorce rate, same sex marriages or single mothers (again: regardless of whether that's good or bad), considering that each of these are examples of non-traditional families?
 

UngaWunga

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Do you not think that feminism had any effect on either the increase in divorce rate, same sex marriages or single mothers (again: regardless of whether that's good or bad), considering that each of these are examples of non-traditional families?
Probably yeah. Single motherhood probably substantially more than the other two. I'd actually include a stable same sex two parent household to be a form of traditional family. I meant a traditional family to basically be more than one caretaker, gender variable. I know single parents generally do their best and I wouldnt wanna put down anyone in that situation, but it's definitely preferable to have at least two people sharing the duties of child-raising. Even more if you can get em in the form of an extended family.

But aside from feminism I can think of at least ten things off the top of my head in under ten seconds that would be factors in that along with feminism, and a bunch of them involve shitty dudes being shitty with no help from feminism."
 

Cool kitties club

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Atheism and secularism haven't been kind to Xianity (Though even among the non-religious there's been a huge backlash against the more obnoxious atheists), but religion just isn't relevant in Capitalism's endgame. The Market is god. It even has an Invisible Hand.
It’s not even like we live in some evil godless society. The progressives Peterson hates are just progressive Protestants who don’t believe in god. Many of the idea like tolerance and egalitarianism come straight from the good book itself just stripped of any historical contradictions. So I find it funny when conservative Christians bitch about there being moral subjectivism; hell even CS Lewis admitted the problem wasn’t moral subjectivism but that secular moralities just take what they want Christianity while trying to debunk it. Then again you can say the same thing with bible thumpers who only care about some sections of the bible.
 

UngaWunga

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It’s not even like we live in some evil godless society. The progressives Peterson hates are just progressive Protestants who don’t believe in god. Many of the idea like tolerance and egalitarianism come straight from the good book itself just stripped of any historical contradictions. So I find it funny when conservative Christians bitch about there being moral subjectivism; hell even CS Lewis admitted the problem wasn’t moral subjectivism but that secular moralities just take what they want Christianity while trying to debunk it. Then again you can say the same thing with bible thumpers who only care about some sections of the bible.
Full agree. But American Protestantism has pretty much turned into the Religious Arm of Capitalism, especially since Reagan found out the Evangelicals are a cheap date. They really did it to themselves though, and it's wild how much American Christian "Morality" has turned into....a striaght up Anti-Christ. Not in the Revelations sense but just in that they believe the opposite of almost every one of Jesus's teachings.

It's hard to make a claim to moral authority when you've basically decided your Messiah and Lord is your enemy on every level except the paint job. Shame about it, but they did it to themselves.
 
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JP's_Canadian_Cider

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The gift of Jordan Peterson is hard to understand. Just like him, it is a bit of a enigma. This thread shows plenty of truthseekers who has gone of into the deep end of the pool without their floaties, may their internet credz rest in peace. Jordan Peterson is not near most of our lolcows in pure entertainment value, frequency nor retardness. Oh, no, Jordan is something else, something you might only experience a handful times in your life.

He is a world famous intellectual, who can't even fucking read a book on his opponents beliefs. He has one fucking job, and that is to prepare for the debate and do a good figure. And, if you watch everything he has ever done, he couldn't fucking do that if you force fed it to him clockwork orange-style. Imagine, you are a person who has a multi-million business depending on you. The only thing you have to do to march on towards a world where you are a king aking to the mightiest of lobsters, is to do a good figure. And you end up having to ask what the fuck marxism is.

This is a person who markets himself as an intellectual. Yet he can't have a single discussion with someone who isn't as gullible as Joe Rogan or figurativly sucking his dick. At this point the only thing that could save his credibility is him posting nudes of his daugther, because she is kinda fine I suppose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PESYQ6TGwhQ&t=1s
Have this seriously not been posted yet?
 

Lemmingwise

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I'd actually include a stable same sex two parent household to be a form of traditional family.
Wait my post in response to this was silently deleted? Lol. I guess it got too many likes and such.

It's pretty fucking surprising because I think almost nobody would call a homosexual parent household a form of traditional family. You can advocate for it... you don't actually need to because it is a status quo mostly accepted type of family. But to call it a type of traditional family is pretty exceptional.
 
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Wesley Willis

Rock over London, Burn down Chicago!
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Capitalism destroys things and replaces them with a cheaper (and often cheaply made) version of the same thing, and it's sold to you with an obnoxious ad campaign. Socialism destroys everything and leaves you with the scraps to share between yourselves.

One's an H&M and the other is a thrift store. Pick your poison. I was never much into fashion, and I'd rather avoid thrift stores because I'm not a hipster. I'll just do my part and employ a young person in southeast Asia and buy what's cheap. I've probably fed more hungry kids than Bono.
 

Senior Lexmechanic

Shitposting displeases the Omnissiah
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Capitalism destroys things and replaces them with a cheaper (and often cheaply made) version of the same thing, and it's sold to you with an obnoxious ad campaign. Socialism destroys everything and leaves you with the scraps to share between yourselves.

One's an H&M and the other is a thrift store. Pick your poison. I was never much into fashion, and I'd rather avoid thrift stores because I'm not a hipster. I'll just do my part and employ a young person in southeast Asia and buy what's cheap. I've probably fed more hungry kids than Bono.
Please explain your enlightened third way economic system that didn't do either of these things.
 

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