They sure do love to paint with the broadest of strokes. Better to just act on uninformed reflex than even think about it for just a second; that brain power is better used on deciding what color to dye their pubes next month after all.
Kingdom Come: White Ethnostate - When trying to get a dev fired fails, because he owns the studio.
- Thread starter Nazi vegeta
- Start date
- Status
“We’re not an echo chamber! We’re not an echo chamber!” Shrieks “sweet nicole” as he bans anyone who disagrees with the retardERA hive mind while pulling his hair out and scratching his scalp bloody.>Giantbomb
>Learning something from past mistakes
Oh and the REEEEEEEera thread about KC selling One million is a mine of autism by its own: seeing the mods trying to keep the "wrongthinkers" at bay it's both depressing and fun
View attachment 389892
Source: https://twitter.com/sewervane/status/967099723797610496
Vavra is probably laughin his ass off all this sperging
Do these morons trying to have rational discussion with a clique of pedophiles and trannies have no self respect?
It's pretty much the same mentality as Nazis. Ask any question, why is this wrong thing around? The Jews! Why is this other thing wrong? The Jews! Why am I a complete and utter faggot? The Jews!
carltondanks
kiwifarms.net
okay, so i've seen some people mention this reddit thread on twitter. here's the link for your own discretion
https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/comments/7yvidc/picking_apart_the_armour_of_kingdom_come/
http://archive.md/Ttq1W
for those that don't wanna go there
Hello ladies and gents.
So Kingdom Come: Deliverance came out, and with it came out screenshots that allow me to pick apart some of the plate armour present in the game. I don't own the game myself, because I'm poor filth, but I have friends who have it and I've seen one of them play a bit. And I was not amused. Alas, I was concerned when I saw what I saw.
I think it's best for me to pick apart the armours one-by-one. What's interesting is that, fairly often, Kingdom Come gets the general shape right. On the surface everything looks great. But the problems really start when any significant level of scrutiny is given to the armour. I have a feeling that they based a lot of the armours off full-contact reenactors, for a couple of reasons.
So this image comes first. Right off the bat, the breastplate is based on a real survival example from Churburg. This breastplate is most likely from the late 14th century, and had the plackart added to it in the early 15th century to update it. Interestingly, because of this, the real example is much thicker and heavier than even some reproductions of it. The breastplate appears to be Italian, so quite a distance from Bohemia, which would be far more influenced by Germanic armour traditions, anyway, but the time period more or less fits (the plackart is estimated to have been added around 1410, so a bit later than the game), and it's a very interesting breastplate, so I'll allow it. Besides, exports happened. The bigger problem is the lack of shape on the breastplate. You'll note that the extant bulges out sideways a lot more. This is a very common problem with reproductions in general. The globose shape of late 14th and early 15th century breastplates was very pronounced. It'd smooth out slightly later on, though that too depended on the style and region.
It would appear that around this time period the arm harness in Germany would be different to this. Firstly, in this period the gauntlets, for the most part, continued to be of the hourglass sort. This means a very short, very flared-out wrists that weren't articulated. I think there might have been a few experimental period examples for this elsewhere in Europe, and indeed there's an effigy from 1407 showing articulated gauntlets. I have a feeling, however, that the artist either completed the effigy decades after the death of the person depicted, or had no idea what armour looks like. Or both. Anyway these gauntlets might actually be accurate, though not common at the time.
More importantly, however, the breastplate isn't covered by any cloth. While 'white armour' (which at the time meant armour not covered by any cloth) was popular elsewhere in Europe, it seemed that Germanic family of armours at the time often put cloth over their plate armours. Examples here, here, and here. While you might consider it slightly pedantic, I believe that regional variations in armour and style are very important, and we shouldn't allow ourselves to mix and match armours from all over Europe just because we feel like it.
Also this breastplate seems very ubiquitous in this game. That's a very big problem, because the real example is an old breastplate that has been repurposed, and so is more than likely to be a one-of-a-kind. That's not to say similar breastplates didn't exist, though they certainly seem rare.
Also just a note about use of effigies: they're generally a decently reliable source of information. Tobias Capwell quite famously loves effigies, and if one of the de-facto experts on European plate armour finds them fairly reliable, I don't see why we shouldn't.
The leg harness is a little bulky, but since I'm not very well-versed in how leg armour was formed (there were tonnes of small variations here and there with leg armour that I can't begin to comprehend), I won't say much more.
Now we get onto the helmet. And oh boy the helmets in this game annoy me. You might think that there are too many breadths in the visor, but there are historical examples, such as this beauty housed in the Polish Army Museum in Warsaw, so this isn't necessarily badhistory. They were fairly uncommon, but existed. What IS wrong is more or less everything else.
The bascinet (aka the helmet bit) itself is very round. Late bascinets had a ridge running along the top of them, and often it even ended at a fairly sharp point. The possible exception, and one that an earlier effigy I showed presented, is when the bascinet was used as the secondary helmet for a great helm, which despite being a way of wearing armour dating back all the way to early 14th century, seems to have persisted even at Agincourt, and even moreso in Germany and Eastern Europe.
(NOTE: At a different angle, the shape doesn't seem to be too bad, though still doesn't seem great for the time period. The bascinet also has a klappvisor hinges, which would have been removed if the helmet had been converted to side pivoting. However, that seems to imply that this is an old bascinet which was repurposed, so the shape argument doesn't work. So the closeup fixes a problem, while creating another. I'm keeping my argument because I think it might be of interest to people).
The eyeslits are just terrible. My God they're wide. You could fit the Titanic through those bloody things, let alone a sword. Refer to the visor I showed earlier to see what real eyeslits would look like. Thin, difficult to fit a dagger through. The visor was there primarily to protect the wearer, that's why it pivoted so easily - the wearer was protected when he needed to, and when he needed to see he could raise his visor. That's why a lot of deaths occurred from wounds to the face in that time period.
What this also doesn't show is that, from what I've seen, the (chain)mail aventail is problematic. There are two different kinds of mail armour we'll discuss: the mail coif and the mail aventail. A coif is a hood made out of mail. An aventail only goes up to attach to the bascinet, and doesn't cover the top of the head that's protected by the helmet anyway. The whole point of the bascinet is that the mail is attached to it, instead of forcing the wearer to wear a coif underneath. From what I've seen very often the mail is not integrated into a bascinet. Furthermore the mail doesn't protect the chin. Look here. The mail in the time period ALWAYS covered the chin, then tapered down over the neck. This is very important in armour.
Lastly, we have this monstrosity. I have absolutely never seen a helmet with oculars like this. And why on good God's earth would I? The oculars in this instance provide a flat surface with many holes. The point of a pollaxe would have a lot of flat space to bite in and penetrate, and at that point it's game over sunshine.
And it unfortunately goes on. Most armours have very unfortunate, and seemingly easily fixed problems. There seems to be an obsession for keeping BOTH the klappvisor hinges and the side-pivoting hinges on bascinets, which was very rare. Repurposed bascinets would have the klappvisor hinges removed and have the holes riveted over. I have a sneaking suspicion that there was relatively little research on the arms and armour of the Bohemian region from the early 15th century, and instead a lot of the armour was based on reenactors. This is confirmed by a LOT of things that reenactors often get wrong. The mail not covering the chin, for example, is very common in reenactment. 'Sporterizing' gear and thereby making it more dangerous to the wearer through methods like making the oculars wider than they need to be is another. Breastplates being poorly shaped is another. There are a few reasons that reenactors do this. Firstly, and obviously I shall never hold this against anyone, the budget. Plate armour is expensive, and if you want to get into a hobby, you should have every right to. Secondly, many reenactors, especially the full-contact guys such as Battle of the Nations, seem to believe that they know better than people that did this for a living, and as a result often get the wrong impression of how an armour should really work on the wearer. Lastly, there is the rule of cool, which is the bane of many a historian.
This isn't to say that ALL reenactors are bad. Hell, pretty much all reenactors I've met are really nice people who are genuinely fascinated in the time period as I am. The problems really start when their word is taken as gospel, and no further research is done, and that unfortunately is how the vast majority of people will get their history. So the myth that all Medieval swords were blunt clubs persists and is reinforced by BoN and others, without the given caveat that these sports have very little actual historical basis. This seems to be what happened here: relatively little research into real period examples has been done, and as a result the historical accuracy of armour in this game suffers. This is an even greater shame because museums LOVE to jump on every opportunity they can to help out people who want to present history. I recently went to the Polish Army Museum, and the curators there were fascinating to talk to and said that they very often get budding armourers (as I wish to be once I can actually afford the startup costs) asking questions and getting to handle the extant examples. I know that Tobias Capwell at the Wallace Collection also loves a good chat, and any museum, really, will be happy to share their findings with people who want to learn.
I'll get the game eventually, and I'll look past these problems, because it still looks beautiful and is set in a very interesting time period. But the problems are there, and they're very unfortunate.
So Kingdom Come: Deliverance came out, and with it came out screenshots that allow me to pick apart some of the plate armour present in the game. I don't own the game myself, because I'm poor filth, but I have friends who have it and I've seen one of them play a bit. And I was not amused. Alas, I was concerned when I saw what I saw.
I think it's best for me to pick apart the armours one-by-one. What's interesting is that, fairly often, Kingdom Come gets the general shape right. On the surface everything looks great. But the problems really start when any significant level of scrutiny is given to the armour. I have a feeling that they based a lot of the armours off full-contact reenactors, for a couple of reasons.
So this image comes first. Right off the bat, the breastplate is based on a real survival example from Churburg. This breastplate is most likely from the late 14th century, and had the plackart added to it in the early 15th century to update it. Interestingly, because of this, the real example is much thicker and heavier than even some reproductions of it. The breastplate appears to be Italian, so quite a distance from Bohemia, which would be far more influenced by Germanic armour traditions, anyway, but the time period more or less fits (the plackart is estimated to have been added around 1410, so a bit later than the game), and it's a very interesting breastplate, so I'll allow it. Besides, exports happened. The bigger problem is the lack of shape on the breastplate. You'll note that the extant bulges out sideways a lot more. This is a very common problem with reproductions in general. The globose shape of late 14th and early 15th century breastplates was very pronounced. It'd smooth out slightly later on, though that too depended on the style and region.
It would appear that around this time period the arm harness in Germany would be different to this. Firstly, in this period the gauntlets, for the most part, continued to be of the hourglass sort. This means a very short, very flared-out wrists that weren't articulated. I think there might have been a few experimental period examples for this elsewhere in Europe, and indeed there's an effigy from 1407 showing articulated gauntlets. I have a feeling, however, that the artist either completed the effigy decades after the death of the person depicted, or had no idea what armour looks like. Or both. Anyway these gauntlets might actually be accurate, though not common at the time.
More importantly, however, the breastplate isn't covered by any cloth. While 'white armour' (which at the time meant armour not covered by any cloth) was popular elsewhere in Europe, it seemed that Germanic family of armours at the time often put cloth over their plate armours. Examples here, here, and here. While you might consider it slightly pedantic, I believe that regional variations in armour and style are very important, and we shouldn't allow ourselves to mix and match armours from all over Europe just because we feel like it.
Also this breastplate seems very ubiquitous in this game. That's a very big problem, because the real example is an old breastplate that has been repurposed, and so is more than likely to be a one-of-a-kind. That's not to say similar breastplates didn't exist, though they certainly seem rare.
Also just a note about use of effigies: they're generally a decently reliable source of information. Tobias Capwell quite famously loves effigies, and if one of the de-facto experts on European plate armour finds them fairly reliable, I don't see why we shouldn't.
The leg harness is a little bulky, but since I'm not very well-versed in how leg armour was formed (there were tonnes of small variations here and there with leg armour that I can't begin to comprehend), I won't say much more.
Now we get onto the helmet. And oh boy the helmets in this game annoy me. You might think that there are too many breadths in the visor, but there are historical examples, such as this beauty housed in the Polish Army Museum in Warsaw, so this isn't necessarily badhistory. They were fairly uncommon, but existed. What IS wrong is more or less everything else.
The bascinet (aka the helmet bit) itself is very round. Late bascinets had a ridge running along the top of them, and often it even ended at a fairly sharp point. The possible exception, and one that an earlier effigy I showed presented, is when the bascinet was used as the secondary helmet for a great helm, which despite being a way of wearing armour dating back all the way to early 14th century, seems to have persisted even at Agincourt, and even moreso in Germany and Eastern Europe.
(NOTE: At a different angle, the shape doesn't seem to be too bad, though still doesn't seem great for the time period. The bascinet also has a klappvisor hinges, which would have been removed if the helmet had been converted to side pivoting. However, that seems to imply that this is an old bascinet which was repurposed, so the shape argument doesn't work. So the closeup fixes a problem, while creating another. I'm keeping my argument because I think it might be of interest to people).
The eyeslits are just terrible. My God they're wide. You could fit the Titanic through those bloody things, let alone a sword. Refer to the visor I showed earlier to see what real eyeslits would look like. Thin, difficult to fit a dagger through. The visor was there primarily to protect the wearer, that's why it pivoted so easily - the wearer was protected when he needed to, and when he needed to see he could raise his visor. That's why a lot of deaths occurred from wounds to the face in that time period.
What this also doesn't show is that, from what I've seen, the (chain)mail aventail is problematic. There are two different kinds of mail armour we'll discuss: the mail coif and the mail aventail. A coif is a hood made out of mail. An aventail only goes up to attach to the bascinet, and doesn't cover the top of the head that's protected by the helmet anyway. The whole point of the bascinet is that the mail is attached to it, instead of forcing the wearer to wear a coif underneath. From what I've seen very often the mail is not integrated into a bascinet. Furthermore the mail doesn't protect the chin. Look here. The mail in the time period ALWAYS covered the chin, then tapered down over the neck. This is very important in armour.
Lastly, we have this monstrosity. I have absolutely never seen a helmet with oculars like this. And why on good God's earth would I? The oculars in this instance provide a flat surface with many holes. The point of a pollaxe would have a lot of flat space to bite in and penetrate, and at that point it's game over sunshine.
And it unfortunately goes on. Most armours have very unfortunate, and seemingly easily fixed problems. There seems to be an obsession for keeping BOTH the klappvisor hinges and the side-pivoting hinges on bascinets, which was very rare. Repurposed bascinets would have the klappvisor hinges removed and have the holes riveted over. I have a sneaking suspicion that there was relatively little research on the arms and armour of the Bohemian region from the early 15th century, and instead a lot of the armour was based on reenactors. This is confirmed by a LOT of things that reenactors often get wrong. The mail not covering the chin, for example, is very common in reenactment. 'Sporterizing' gear and thereby making it more dangerous to the wearer through methods like making the oculars wider than they need to be is another. Breastplates being poorly shaped is another. There are a few reasons that reenactors do this. Firstly, and obviously I shall never hold this against anyone, the budget. Plate armour is expensive, and if you want to get into a hobby, you should have every right to. Secondly, many reenactors, especially the full-contact guys such as Battle of the Nations, seem to believe that they know better than people that did this for a living, and as a result often get the wrong impression of how an armour should really work on the wearer. Lastly, there is the rule of cool, which is the bane of many a historian.
This isn't to say that ALL reenactors are bad. Hell, pretty much all reenactors I've met are really nice people who are genuinely fascinated in the time period as I am. The problems really start when their word is taken as gospel, and no further research is done, and that unfortunately is how the vast majority of people will get their history. So the myth that all Medieval swords were blunt clubs persists and is reinforced by BoN and others, without the given caveat that these sports have very little actual historical basis. This seems to be what happened here: relatively little research into real period examples has been done, and as a result the historical accuracy of armour in this game suffers. This is an even greater shame because museums LOVE to jump on every opportunity they can to help out people who want to present history. I recently went to the Polish Army Museum, and the curators there were fascinating to talk to and said that they very often get budding armourers (as I wish to be once I can actually afford the startup costs) asking questions and getting to handle the extant examples. I know that Tobias Capwell at the Wallace Collection also loves a good chat, and any museum, really, will be happy to share their findings with people who want to learn.
I'll get the game eventually, and I'll look past these problems, because it still looks beautiful and is set in a very interesting time period. But the problems are there, and they're very unfortunate.
Attachments
While I might agree with the rest of your post I think the idea of Brianna Wu running for congress is laughable simply because, even if the general SJW rhetoric wasn't based on a bunch of bullshit the general public doesn't care about, the whole of them are way too anti-social to ever get into any position of meaningful power. Do you really think the good people of Boston are going to vote in a guy who throws iPads at people when something doesn't go his way?
This Reddit thread was used by a few others that were salty towards the game. If this is really one of the ways to attack the whole historical accuracy angle, it's a rather autistic attempt.
Comment aside, some more Twitter salt.
Someone got angry over a perk where your character being dirty gives some scent that women find attractive. Rather autistic to get angry over that.
The worf guy can not separate art from the artist. Also an anime avatar tried to make some hot take because Vavra tried to use historical facts or something.
While this seems like bait, there's likely this guy is salty towards the game since he is buddies with some people that are salty to Kingdom Come.
I don't want to sperg on too much and derail the thread, but this historian genius can be debunked by two statements:
1) A thousand miles into a foreign (and likely hostile) country is likely to be a journey no mere traveller can take. There's a reason states back then were mostly ethnostates, especially in Europe.
2) Does this fucker even know how many people are involved in a diplomatic mission? Definitely not enough to overtake or even become a minority of a largely white population, at most you would get 5-10 characters in the game, and that's including throwaway NPCs with no dialogue.
That's why they circumvent, or as Brianna Wu likes to call it, Backchannel. No dealing with the pesky normies.
Anyway, moving on, here's some items from dumbfuckistan. There was actually a reasonably productive thread on Gamerghazi discussing the merits of the game and its setting before the secret police got wind of it shitted up the thread to get it locked:
Reasonable Ghazi Poster said:
This didn't last of course, and it became increasingly hilarious as one of the posters pulled the GethN7 manuever and the anger it caused was palpable. Let's dive into the craziest responses:
Insane Person said:
Same Guy As Above said:
More Madness said:
Piracy Advocate said:
My favorite exchange is this one about halfway through the thread:
GhaziFag said:
GethPoster said:
GhaziFag said:
GethPoster said:
GhaziFag said:
GethPoster said:
Good times.
What these dinguses are missing is that KC is intended to be a broad representation of the time period, essentially a simulacrum of an obviously much larger and complicated area. This applies to LITERALLY EVERYTHING in the game; locales/geography, weapon types, structures and architecture, speech patterns, clothing, armor detailing, you name it.
As a general simulation, it's obvious they found it incredibly important to render what could, at any given moment during play, represent the most likely and historically reasonable scenario for that general area (remember, we're talking about Bohemia around the year 1400). These amateur historians forget that these people were rather insular at this point in time and the primary conflict of their era was religious reformation during the Hussite movement, and this game takes place even just before that began. This Bohemia became primarily the Czech Republic, which still to this day has more fucking Vietnamese citizens than general brownskins. The game literally takes place right after the rule of Charles IV who, without any war (and therefore much foreign interaction) formed Bohemia into a near paradisaical place of higher education through the University in Prague, and a classically liberal society by instituting a goddamn electoral college for election to the Imperial throne. The people there at the time were far too busy improving and enjoying their own society to concern themselves much with outsiders. It worked too.
I don't see them wailing about the non-representation of Arquebus firearms even though there were maybe a couple of them around at that time. I don't see them getting upset about the characterization of the German characters in the game which makes them out to be unwanted dissenters only useful for trade and money making purposes, which probably would have been true for these largely Czech people. Funny enough I also don't see them getting upset about a lack of LGBTQXYZ characters. Considering these people were industrious, intelligent and non-autistic though, I would think it safe to assume there wasn't much of that going around then as well. No, let's all get upset about white folks having a history that actually happened and try to bury it.
They try so hard to brownwash and dilute white history it is sickening. What ever happened to everyone of all colors, creeds, etc having a distinct history they can be proud of? Not appreciating specific cultures and their histories only because they're Caucasian is fuckin malodorous lunacy. Par for the course unfortunately nowadays.
As a general simulation, it's obvious they found it incredibly important to render what could, at any given moment during play, represent the most likely and historically reasonable scenario for that general area (remember, we're talking about Bohemia around the year 1400). These amateur historians forget that these people were rather insular at this point in time and the primary conflict of their era was religious reformation during the Hussite movement, and this game takes place even just before that began. This Bohemia became primarily the Czech Republic, which still to this day has more fucking Vietnamese citizens than general brownskins. The game literally takes place right after the rule of Charles IV who, without any war (and therefore much foreign interaction) formed Bohemia into a near paradisaical place of higher education through the University in Prague, and a classically liberal society by instituting a goddamn electoral college for election to the Imperial throne. The people there at the time were far too busy improving and enjoying their own society to concern themselves much with outsiders. It worked too.
I don't see them wailing about the non-representation of Arquebus firearms even though there were maybe a couple of them around at that time. I don't see them getting upset about the characterization of the German characters in the game which makes them out to be unwanted dissenters only useful for trade and money making purposes, which probably would have been true for these largely Czech people. Funny enough I also don't see them getting upset about a lack of LGBTQXYZ characters. Considering these people were industrious, intelligent and non-autistic though, I would think it safe to assume there wasn't much of that going around then as well. No, let's all get upset about white folks having a history that actually happened and try to bury it.
They try so hard to brownwash and dilute white history it is sickening. What ever happened to everyone of all colors, creeds, etc having a distinct history they can be proud of? Not appreciating specific cultures and their histories only because they're Caucasian is fuckin malodorous lunacy. Par for the course unfortunately nowadays.
A good summary of the whining cunts who dislike Kingdom Come: Deliverance.
Nazi vegeta
kiwifarms.net
giantcuck indeed:
Not only is this factually wrong, it's also a completely asinine point.
What are we supposed to assume here exactly?
Since there was "no concept of white people" there were no white people? What the fuck am I reading...
Postmodernism at its finest. "When we can make a concept dissappear by sticking a label to it (such as social construct), it also makes everything with that attribute disappear".
"Haha, watch us shoot our own feet as we ignore a game that has sold like hot cakes despite the concerted efforts of multiple large publishing platforms! This in no way highlights how insignificant or irrelevant we truly are, since it's the perfect measurement to see how little impact we have on the market!"giantcuck indeed:
That, of course, also means there was no concept of black people.
Yes, scientists.
I'm sure that they followed the scientific method, proposed the likely theory that PoC littered Bohemia, then traveled back in time as an experiment to prove it. Then they heroically returned to tumblr and twitter to show all their evidence, getting ever closer to Alex Jones levels of credibility.
In other news, despite the swathes of weeaboos infesting the internet, no white people have ever been to (relatively) modern-day Japan and this is racist: https://kiwifarms.is/threads/jared-leto-yakuza-stars-in-the-outsider.39872/
Race-based virtue signaling never stops.
Say it with me: "That's ignorant!"
What do you mean there's no dragons and magic spells in a game that isn't meant to be high fantasy? WELL I NEVER!
I wonder if this tard also complains about the lack of kung fu fights in courtroom dramas or the absence of car chases in nature documentaries.
Last edited:
Just let me post something:
If there were so many blacks in Czechland in the past.... did they just dissapear overnight? Where are their descendants? Did they all go to Wokeanda? It is still a white ethnostate like most of Eastern Europe these days, something that eastern europeans value very much.
If there were so many blacks in Czechland in the past.... did they just dissapear overnight? Where are their descendants? Did they all go to Wokeanda? It is still a white ethnostate like most of Eastern Europe these days, something that eastern europeans value very much.
Islamic Creampie
kiwifarms.net
A couple posts from the Metal Archives video game thread. The forum owned by RetardEra mod Morrigan. I gave up posting there ages ago but I knew there'd be some Kingdom Come salt given what the user base is like these days.
And what is it with these weirdos and "freeze peach"? Like it's unbelievable that people want to be able to enjoy/create things with thought policing. They seem to think everyone in that camp is just using it as an excuse to toss "nigger" around everywhere.
And what is it with these weirdos and "freeze peach"? Like it's unbelievable that people want to be able to enjoy/create things with thought policing. They seem to think everyone in that camp is just using it as an excuse to toss "nigger" around everywhere.
- Status
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