Left Behind Series Discussion -

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GethN7

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I've started this thread mostly to critique the books, because on top of finding the theology BS from a Christian perspective, I also consider them badly written from a secular one.

Not that they are utterly bad, some of the books do have redeeming moments of actual clever writing or instances that were surprisingly well researched, but overall, even though the later books made less writing fumbles, the earlier books were riddled with all sorts of errors and shoddy writing.

In fact, the first book alone has so much fail describing a trip across New York it's hilarious, the UN is utterly misrepresented, a murder takes place in a manner that is physically impossible given the manner in which it is described, and some of the side plots beggar my suspension of disbelief.


A good critic of this is Fred Clark, who has been tearing the books a new one on his blog:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/tag/left-behind/

Have to admit I do feel Fred is overly cynical at times, and some of his conclusions approach some nauseating levels of SJW-ery at times, but overall, his analysis is pretty good.


I also have recently finished the young adult 'Left Behind: The Kids" series, and honestly, while the early books of that were also marred with some bad writing, the later books go out of their way to fix many of the mistakes of the early adult books and fill in a lot of blanks in the world Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins wrote.

For example:

1. The almost laughably inept Global Community goons in the adult series can be frighteningly competent and legit scary.

2. The young adult series does a much better job of expressing just how terrible the world has gotten as the books go by. Compared to the adult series, which mostly told us the world was getting more miserable, we actually get shown the misery, it truly feels like the end times.

3. The good guys seemed to have it VERY easy in the adult books. Despite having the whole world as their enemies, the adult series made the protagonists nigh invulnerable except when the writers decided they shouldn't be. By contrast, the young adult protagonists are constantly on the run and doing all sorts of desperate things to survive.


Of course, the young adult books have their own problems, as they are forced to stick with a lot of the dumber writing the adult series is married to, and the early books were also written with the same cringey mistakes as the adult ones, but overall, I found the writing of the later young adult books was a lot better and filled in a lot of blanks in the plot of the adult series.


Regardless, I won't claim the entire franchise was redeemable, as all the mistakes made overrode a lot of the better writing later on because the writers were forced to reference or build off earlier mistakes for plot reasons, and again, I find the theology the book uses abhorrent for multiple reasons, chief among them being that they did a lot of biblical cut and paste to make the story work.

I also draw issue with a lot of the personal biases of the authors that seeped into the writing (a lot of their portrayal of women comes off as pure cringe), though that thankfully became somewhat less noticeable in the later books.

However, that's just my take, was wondering what everyone else thought of these books.
 

millais

The Yellow Rose of Victoria, Texas
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
One thing I always wondered was why the target audience of zealously pious Christians would care about what would happen in the material world after the Rapture. Only the unbelievers are left on Earth at that point, so what is their interest in what happens to these unworthy souls? Schadenfreude?
 

Cheerlead-in-Chief

kiwifarms.net
I liked "Nicolae" (the character and book)
and read the first book of "Left Behind: The Kids". I partly read the second, but lost interest.
 

nanny911

Kill count: 1
kiwifarms.net
:powerlevel: :autism: I really loved reading the books, but my goodness, they were the Christian equivalent of pulp fiction: cheap, 1D characters, bloody action but enough good messages so you don't question your own morality. Also the last fucking book: Kingdom Come, it pissed me off. Basically, there's this Illumnati-esque organization run by fucking kids, shitting up New Earth. But instead of focusing on that, LaHaye and Jenkins decided to follow some boring ass lovestory. :autism: :autism:

But seriously, you can buy each book for 20 cents at any thrift shop, so if you need a dumb but entertaining romp, here's a cheap and easy one.
 

GethN7

True & Honest Fan
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I liked "Nicolae" (the character and book)
and read the first book of "Left Behind: The Kids". I partly read the second, but lost interest.

You have to suffer through some shoddy writing for the first twelve YA books, as each four books in the YA series covers the same ground as an equivalent adult series book, but it actually gets better after.

For instance, remember the Morale Monitors? In the adult books, Nicolae briefly describes the concept around book three, we get a brief display of one doing his job poorly in the ninth book, then they disappear from anything aside from throwaway reference for the rest of the series.

The young adult books by contrast flesh them out and make them scarily competent at times.

Another mistake the young adult books fix is how horribly 90's the technology was.

After the first twelve YA books, the world they describe sounds plausibly futuristic, and both the protagonists and antagonists get some impressive toys to play with that sound like something a competent dsytopian sci-fi writer would come up with, including elaborate communications devices, high tech disguises including fake marks (for both sides), and the villains make use of NSA level tech to keep tabs on the protagonists, to the point they have to counter with the same level of technology constantly like seen in the adult books (only described in far more plausible detail and not quite as effectively) just to survive.

Even the rank and file GC Peacekeepers got a competence boost in the YA series. In the adult books, they were rank and file goons who got lucky every once in a while but were largely a joke. In the YA books, they use the resources of a police state very, very efficiently, and by the second half of the series, they even find a way to disguise having the mark of the beast so they can dupe the protagonists into thinking they are potential converts, almost getting them all killed at one point.

There was also a throwaway mention in one of the later books about how anyone with the Mark of the Beast was deputized to capture and kill anyone without it.

We actually get descriptions of these state supported vigilantes, and they come off as quite scary, especially because unlike the actual police they aren't even bound to any sort of pretense at legal procedure.
 
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Absolutego

Middleman who didn't do diddly
True & Honest Fan
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I read the kid's version all the way to book twenty something and enjoyed them when I was still in grade school (I'm surprised my parents weren't more concerned, going by their attitudes towards the adult version of these books), but I'll admit the fact that it scared the shit out of me as a kid and my panicked private conversion because I didn't want to get left behind in that world probably played a large factor in my deconversion and obnoxious anti-theist period a few years later.

They're not *terribly* written for kid's books, and a lot of the stuff in them I find repugnant now didn't register when I was younger, but in a strictly fictional sense as an attempt to portray the process of the biblical revelation they're ok. I understand the adult series is far more cringeworthy, but I've never read them.
 

nanny911

Kill count: 1
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Oh, another thing, Tim LaHaye came up with the ideas but contracted Jenkins to write for him. LaHaye rewrote the Left Behind concept TWICE in the next decade: Babylon Rising, and The End Series with different authors each time.
 

GethN7

True & Honest Fan
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Oh, another thing, Tim LaHaye came up with the ideas but contracted Jenkins to write for him. LaHaye rewrote the Left Behind concept TWICE in the next decade: Babylon Rising, and The End Series with different authors each time.

I've read some of those, and honestly, Jenkins did a better job when LaHaye had little to no input, it was borderline enjoyable to read some of his non LaHaye work.

Most of the cringe was LaHaye's invention, with the first few books being intensely LaHaye influenced, especially the John Burch Society-esque conspiracy stuff.
 

GethN7

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
One thing I always wondered was why the target audience of zealously pious Christians would care about what would happen in the material world after the Rapture. Only the unbelievers are left on Earth at that point, so what is their interest in what happens to these unworthy souls? Schadenfreude?

Considering all the gratuitously described scenes of dead unbelievers, and it's quite possible.

In fact, the gore and death of anyone who isn't a believer gets a LOT of loving description. The good guys aren't exempt, we get some gross descriptions of their demises at times as well, but the deaths of the villains gets incredibly detailed.

The YA series actually toned this down somewhat, or rather was more evenhanded.
 

Pablo Birmingham

3-Time State Champ
kiwifarms.net
One thing I always wondered was why the target audience of zealously pious Christians would care about what would happen in the material world after the Rapture. Only the unbelievers are left on Earth at that point, so what is their interest in what happens to these unworthy souls? Schadenfreude?

They're essentially "christian horror" novels. Real horror books and movies get you sent to hell, but this kind of horror is a-ok.
 

millais

The Yellow Rose of Victoria, Texas
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
They're essentially "christian horror" novels. Real horror books and movies get you sent to hell, but this kind of horror is a-ok.
That makes sense. I had not thought of it like that. And I guess since time immemorial, it's always been easier for people to imagine and write fantastically detailed and lengthy tracts on the tangibly horrible circumstances of suffering and pain than on the more intangibly ethereal delights of salvation. The Inferno and Purgatory sections of Dante's Divine Comedy are much longer and more immensely detailed than the section on Paradise/Heaven.
 

GethN7

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
That makes sense. I had not thought of it like that. And I guess since time immemorial, it's always been easier for people to imagine and write fantastically detailed and lengthy tracts on the tangibly horrible circumstances of suffering and pain than on the more intangibly ethereal delights of salvation. The Inferno and Purgatory sections of Dante's Divine Comedy are much longer and more immensely detailed than the section on Paradise/Heaven.

At times, they come off as a Christian version of snuff porn.

Granted, part of it is to scare the shit out of people for religious reasons, but otherwise, it does come off as schadenfreude in fictional form as interpreted by the authors.
 

GethN7

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Oh yeah, just remembered, there is one bit in the adult book Armageddon that is so over the top it's hilarious, mostly because while Jenkins was never subtle, this was downright cliche:

When Carpathia is doing a little rant about he (Lucifer) was wrongly screwed over by God and basically gives his version of human history to his closest followers, he includes this that made me lol:


“Yes, I will admit it. The father and the son have been my formidable foes over the generations. They have their favorites—the Jews, of all people. The Jews are the apples of the elder’s eye, but therein lies his weakness. He has such a soft spot for them that they will be his undoing.

“My forces and I almost had them eradicated not so many generations ago, but father and son intervened, gave them back their own land, and foiled us again. Fate has toyed with us many times, my friends, but in the end we shall prevail.


tl;dr: Lucifer was behind the Nazis.
 

Cheerlead-in-Chief

kiwifarms.net
Oh yeah, just remembered, there is one bit in the adult book Armageddon that is so over the top it's hilarious, mostly because while Jenkins was never subtle, this was downright cliche:

When Carpathia is doing a little rant about he (Lucifer) was wrongly screwed over by God and basically gives his version of human history to his closest followers, he includes this that made me lol:


“Yes, I will admit it. The father and the son have been my formidable foes over the generations. They have their favorites—the Jews, of all people. The Jews are the apples of the elder’s eye, but therein lies his weakness. He has such a soft spot for them that they will be his undoing.

“My forces and I almost had them eradicated not so many generations ago, but father and son intervened, gave them back their own land, and foiled us again. Fate has toyed with us many times, my friends, but in the end we shall prevail.


tl;dr: Lucifer was behind the Nazis.
Of course. I'm reading Left Behind rn and there has been "pooh-pooed Space aliens" and redundant sentences.
 

Billy_Sama

♂Love and Muscle in Heaven♂
kiwifarms.net
I saw the movie with friends in an actual theater and this is the only thing I remember besides wearing John 3:16 clothes gets you raptured.

 

GethN7

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Also, if anyone want to laugh, and laugh hard, just read any description of computer hacking in the adult books and try to resist laughing. You will fail.

Example from Book Six:

Using the enormous satellite tracking capabilities and microwave technology, it was theoretically possible to trace any cyberspace transmission to its source. Most clandestine operators moved around a lot or built in antitracking shields that made detection difficult. Besides having helped design the transmission protocol for the stateside Trib Force, David took double precautions by inserting a glitch into the computers in his department.

The complicator was purely mathematical. A key component in plotting coordinates, of course, is measuring angles and computing distances between various points. On paper such calculations would take hours. On a calculator, less time. But on a computer, the results are virtually instantaneous. David planted, however, what he called a floating multiplier. In layman’s terms, any time the computer was assigned a calculation, a random component transposed side-by-side digits in either the third, fourth, or fifth step. Not even David knew which step it would select, let alone which digits. When the calculation was repeated, the error would be duplicated three times in a row, so checking the computer against itself was useless.


Should someone’s suspicions be raised and they checked the computer against an uncontaminated calculator, the computer would eventually flush the bug and give a correct reading. Once the techie was convinced the previous had been human error or a temporary glitch, he would move on to the next calculation and probably not realize until hours or days later that the computer had a mind of its own again.

This is how Jenkins thinks geolocating an IP address works.

The very next paragraph makes it funnier:

David assumed that by the time the inconsistencies of the machines became an issue, the project would fall so far behind that it would be scrapped. Meanwhile, the computers used to generate Tsion’s teaching and Buck’s magazine were programmed to change their signal randomly, changing every second between 9 trillion separate combinations of routes.


tl;dr: The bad guys have to go up against what is basically a VPN/Tor on crack, and they waste their time doing pointless math.

Even better, this actually contradicts the earlier books, where this stuff was apparently posted anonymously to a central bulletin board as if that would shield the geolocation of the IP of the original sender.
 

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