Leftists who didn't fall for Trump Derangement Syndrome -

HITLER HAWG WIZARD

kiwifarms.net
A lot of it all is projecting and assumption, both sides. TDS is called out a lot more because of the power and visibility of the office Trump holds, but also due to the easy accessibility of the social media platform Trump uses (Twitter), which really magnifies the nonsense spewed back and for on both sides. Twitter is pretty terrible but the same idiots crowd on it for the opportunity to tweet something (that will never be read) at Trump, with usual haughtiness and 'notice me senpai' behavior that applies.

But really, all of it is attempts at formulating responses to opinions that run counter to their own, with the assumption that whomever is being spoken to/disagreed with will also hold these views (TDS, NPC meme; or conversely any allusion that Trump is Herr Fuhrer, etc.). The bigger problem is that when discussing these things there's a tendency to assume that disagreements aren't merely minor but are a part of a bigger pattern on the individual being disagreed with, to 'connect-the-dots' (if you will), which is usually used to dismiss the individual and their arguments, with not examination of the points they brought up. Human beings are fantastic at recognizing patterns, even if they are non-extant.
 

Boss Bass

kiwifarms.net
The left deserved to lose that election even harder than we did.

Rather than learn a single fucking thing, changing anything, or using this as an impetus to inspire local change, it’s been a non stop chimp out.

I don’t give a shit if Russia “interfered”, the US has interfered in every sovereign election of the last 100 years. We got our shit caved in, and all anyone can do is blame boogie men.

The new deal coalition is well and truly dead, go down the list and you can see when each group got thrown out of the boat.

TDS is real. Your ideological opponents should inform and improve your position, but I see none of that today.
 

JektheDumbass

kiwifarms.net
I think Trump is an asshole, but I also believe that about every president. I have a lot of left-leaning opinions, but find myself being alienated by the fact that the Democratic party has learned nothing from Hillary getting stomped in the dirt (and seems to be doubling down on the stupid that cost her the election), the fact that the left is opposing free speech, and how the left generally sucks Wall Street's dick just as hard as the republicans do (Sanders is a capitalist with four mansions and all of his ideas would disproportionately benefit the insanely wealthy. If he's a "social democrat" I'll eat my hat).
 
I mean I guess Trump was good for democracy in that he doesn't represent a dynasty but he also makes me wonder how good an idea representative democracy is.
What do you mean by that? How does Trump make representative democracy look bad?

EDIT: It's weird to see so many people saying Trump is a bad president. I agree the man can't speak to save his life, and is the master of terrible optics, but his actual executive actions have been fairly consistent, and more importantly, all available actual real metrics (I.E. real stuff vs feelings) show the US doing better than we have under any previous president in memory. Is it just because of the constant "scandals"? Because that's just letting an unfriendly press decide who is "presidential".
 

KiwiKritter

Null’s degenerate spy
kiwifarms.net
I consider myself left but extremely. I don’t like Trump and I think he acts childish, but in the end how I feel doesn’t matter, he is the president and I am one person compared to the millions in the country. I am not going to piss and moan over something I can not change unless its relevant to a discussion and/or I am asked. Its beyond idiotic to get so upset and full of anxiety over a president who just makes himself look stupid.
 

QWXXP Surprise!

K1w| F/4r/ms - STAY SAFE!!!
kiwifarms.net
I'm left (istandwith calls me a socialist basically) and while I didn't vote for Trump, I don't really care that much about him. He's done some things I agree with (re: TPP) and some things I don't (I think the border wall is a waste of money that should be diverted to more pressing infrastructure improvement projects. Most illegal immigrants I know personally didn't get into the country by crossing the border that way anyway. I do think that having military/ more border patrol presence at the border is fine) but I'm not that buttblasted about Donald Trump, and find some of the people who are to be really ridiculous.
 

GarthMarenghisDankplace

Janny chaser
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
What do you mean by that? How does Trump make representative democracy look bad?

EDIT: It's weird to see so many people saying Trump is a bad president. I agree the man can't speak to save his life, and is the master of terrible optics, but his actual executive actions have been fairly consistent, and more importantly, all available actual real metrics (I.E. real stuff vs feelings) show the US doing better than we have under any previous president in memory. Is it just because of the constant "scandals"? Because that's just letting an unfriendly press decide who is "presidential".
It's not that I think he's a particularly materially bad president. I just think he's a complete asshole and that representative democracy promotes complete assholes and people like Trump and Clinton are the natural consequence for a system which rewards power hungry, over confident, self-serving, psychopathic tendency having egotists. In Democratic Athens (which invented democracy) they knew you couldn't have democracy and politicians in the one system. You could be expelled from the city if you were suspected of trying to exert political power, that's where the term ostracism comes from.
 

Anonimo

My kingdom for a facepalm rating
kiwifarms.net
I only registered as Democrat out of necessity to vote in the primaries. I never liked the idea of a businessman running America, but our choice in the last election basically ended up being “do I vote for ‘in bed with Wall Street’ or ‘Wall Street itself’?”

I look at the things the Democrat party is proposing, the things higher ups are saying and am frustrated that they haven’t learned a damn thing. They continue to stupidly throw vinegar at the flies and wonder why the flies aren’t coming to them.

Trump’s policies I feel are mostly pie-in-the-sky. His tax plan sounded too good to be true, and what did people think was going to happen giving corporations another break? I just looked at it and saw it as state-sanctioned Ponzi-scheming. The way it conveniently ends just after Trump leaves office (assuming he’s re-elected) and even if he isn’t, is a win for him. If things go bad and he’s not in the White House, whoever takes his place will probably get blamed, we get a lame duck administration that fails to accomplish anything to solve these problems in any meaningful way, then we just vote in someone who screws us over even worse and we’re back to square one.

I live not to far away from the GM plant in Lordstown and have friends who worked there. This tax plan was apparently supposed to incentivize the factory staying in America? Fat lot of good that did because they’re shutting down the plant.

The border wall doesn’t really come off as a good solution to me either, nor the steps Trump is taking to get it built. It just strikes me as a “We should take Bikini Bottom, and Push It Somewhere Else” type deal. And sure, even if he can declare a national emergency to get it built, it’s going to bite America on the ass as so many have said before. Giving that much power to anyone has trouble written all over it. Sure, today this tactic will work in your favor, but you can’t guarantee that someone won’t use it against you later on.

I volunteer at a soup kitchen, and one of the volunteers was talking with the Sister hoping to bring some Muslim refugees, for she was Muslim herself and her husband ran a mosque. I sat down with the Sister and she told me about how they were a couple families; mothers with children who had no fathers, and my heart ached for them. I was sincerely looking forward to trying to help them, especially the children. On the way home I hear on the radio about Trump’s Muslim ban, and I was livid to say the least. I don’t think a blanket ban on a whole group is the way to go. I’ve been reluctant to talk about these things because I just expect to be labeled an Islamophilic cuck.

For a time, I felt like I couldn’t escape the TDS both before and after the election. I enjoyed doing college and community theatre, but it seemed like the focus was shifting less towards telling stories, and more towards pointless evangelizing. If the Hamilton debacle with Pence was anything to go off of, most Trump folks wouldn’t set foot in a production of a musical, much less a college production to hear about the “evils of Trumpism”. Most people who were going there were already of the mind that Trump was bad. I stopped performing in theatre productions for a time because I wanted to perform, not be someone else’s mouthpiece!

As far as the Russia stuff goes, I’m sick and tired of it. We haven’t found a smoking gun, though we have found evidence of several crimes that aren’t directly related, and I think on one hand In glad to see shady people get caught. On the other hand, I’m hoping Trump just finishes his term like Clinton and he doesn’t get impeached.

Trump is a blowhard, and you can always count on him to act like one. Pence is honest, or at least as honest as a weasel like him can be. I’m not entirely unconvinced that Pence wasn’t pro-conversion therapy, the official statements reeked of PR-speak. Pence is a lawyer as well as a politician. He may not be able to create death camps for gays, but I’m sure he could find other ways to propose some truly awful policies, likely hidden behind a string of loopholes and opaque legalese. He wears his intentions on his sleeve and hides them behind a folksy demeanor.

So I don’t like Trump, but I don’t think impeaching him is going to do us any good. I’d much rather let things take their course.

I don’t know if I’m left or right, I think I’m just tired.
 
It's not that I think he's a particularly materially bad president. I just think he's a complete asshole and that representative democracy promotes complete assholes and people like Trump and Clinton are the natural consequence for a system which rewards power hungry, over confident, self-serving, psychopathic tendency having egotists. In Democratic Athens (which invented democracy) they knew you couldn't have democracy and politicians in the one system. You could be expelled from the city if you were suspected of trying to exert political power, that's where the term ostracism comes from.
Oh ok, fair enough. Yeah, I agree with that.

In democratic athens, who was in charge of deciding who was trying to exert political power? Because I'd say they had successfully exerted political power. While you're right that democracy promotes a certain kind of person with a list of negatives that are commonly attached, adding unaccountable bureaucracies to it doesn't tend to give you better people.

I mean, the problem with democracy is obvious. People are fucking morons. But people run all the other systems too, just a randomly selected small chunk of them. And they're not selected by ability to effectively lead.

My take on Trump is that he's embraced populism, and it's worked, because the established political body was so far out of what from what people wanted. If populism gains traction, it's because shit is fucked up, or at least, there's a perception that it is. For example, dems and republicans largely agreeing on climate change shit. Or dems and republicans largely agreeing on the social justice shit. There wasn't anyone else saying "Hold on a minute, this is all bullshit".

Now, the man is a super douche. But that's what you get with populism. Populism is an angry population telling their politicians they're sick of their bullshit, so we sent this guy to tell you to fuck off with your bullshit. A lot of people wanted Trump to go in there and tear shit apart, because it's so fucked up. The fact that he's effective has to be a pleasant surprise for people who thought about it, because I don't know how you could have predicted that during the election. A lot of people just voted for a wrecking ball, they didn't care about the whole rebuilding part.
 

GarthMarenghisDankplace

Janny chaser
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Oh ok, fair enough. Yeah, I agree with that.

In democratic athens, who was in charge of deciding who was trying to exert political power? Because I'd say they had successfully exerted political power.
Copied from wikipedia:
'The name is derived from the ostraka (singular ostrakon, ὄστρακον), referring to the pottery shards that were used as voting tokens. Broken pottery, abundant and virtually free, served as a kind of scrap paper (in contrast to papyrus, which was imported from Egypt as a high-quality writing surface, and was thus too costly to be disposable).

Each year the Athenians were asked in the assembly whether they wished to hold an ostracism. The question was put in the sixth of the ten months used for state business under the democracy (January or February in the modern Gregorian Calendar). If they voted "yes", then an ostracism would be held two months later. In a section of the agora set off and suitably barriered,[2] citizens gave the name of those they wished to be ostracised to a scribe, as many of them were illiterate, and they then scratched the name on pottery shards, and deposited them in urns. The presiding officials counted the ostraka submitted and sorted the names into separate piles. The person whose pile contained the most ostraka would be banished, provided that an additional criterion of a quorum was met, about which there are two principal sources:

According to Plutarch,[3] the ostracism was considered valid if the total number of votes cast was at least 6,000.
According to a fragment of Philochorus,[4] the "winner" of the ostracism must have obtained at least 6,000 votes.'

So one person couldn't wield all the power, a pretty big chunk of the voting population had to reckon you were up to no good.
 

Secret Asshole

Expert in things that never, ever happened
Local Moderator
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Most who don't tend to keep their mouths well shut. The problem is that those with TDS are just that, deranged. They will focus your family, your job, your friends. They'll paint you as a Nazi, a racist, a pedophile, anything they can get their hands on to ruin you. Problem is, if you're on the left without TDS, you functionally have no party.
 

Syaoran Li

Goth Mom Resurrection
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Back in the day, I always considered myself a leftist and while I still have the same old-school liberal views that were considered the norm for lefties back in the 1990's and 2000's, the modern SJW Left of the 2010's has become so authoritarian and batshit insane that I now consider myself a centrist, or center-left at the most.

While I recognize that Trump Derangement Syndrome is very real, I still don't like Trump or his policies (especially his environmental de-regulations) and as someone who grew up in coal country, I do not like how he duped the working folks of Appalachia by blatantly peddling false hope to them although Hillary's neglect of them combined with the raw searing contempt that the SJW's and Hillary's coastal base have for the people of Appalachia (or the Midwest, for that matter) did not help either.

On multiple occasions on this forum, I've even unfavorably compared Donald Trump to Silvio Berlusconi, the disgraced ex-Prime Minister of Italy, who campaigned on a platform of conservative populism similar to Trump's 2016 platform during the late 1990's and held office for most of the 2000's before being removed from office in 2013 on a slew of corruption charges.

But I don't fall for the uproar over Russia or the moral panic over the supposed "Alt-Right", the latter of which is reaching Satanic Panic levels of mass hysteria at this point.

TL;DR Both sides suck.
 

Absolutego

Middleman who didn't do diddly
True & Honest Fan
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Most who don't tend to keep their mouths well shut. The problem is that those with TDS are just that, deranged. They will focus your family, your job, your friends. They'll paint you as a Nazi, a racist, a pedophile, anything they can get their hands on to ruin you. Problem is, if you're on the left without TDS, you functionally have no party.
As someone who tries hard to keep my political opinions to myself due to the environment around me, it's much less fear of reprisals to that extent (at least, offline) and much more just not wanting to trigger another endless fucking Trump rant from those people in my social circle. The most ridiculous thing about the collective hysteria in reaction to this presidency is that I can have major disagreements with conservative friends on matters of policy but we can comfortably change the subject, and the same cannot be said about even minor disagreements with the TDS types. I swear they get more upset by "lol calm down" reactions than outright disagreement.
 

Slap47

Hehe xd
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I'm a lefty that likes Trump because I support economic populism.

Here is a list of critiques

-Increased military spending
-Increased foreign aid to Israel
-Threatened free expression of critics
-Threatened Internet freedom
-Has passed bills that benefit major MLM scams
-Supports Saudi Arabia despite his past rhetoric
-Neglect for infrastructure and healthcare spending
-Failed to reform the drug laws
-Used the threat of regime change on Venezuela
-Support for torture and removal of citizenship
-Supports Cuba embargo
-Cut taxes for everybody but mostly for corporations
-Has allowed deficits to soar
-Has failed to reign in corporate welfare
-Failed to arrest Hillary Clinton
-Failed to take stances on genocides in Myanmar, S.Africa and Yemen.
-Failed to reform education
-Is pro-coal when that is unreasonable
-Keeps saying he wants to "take the oil" from places

Notice something? My critiques are usually from the left. Most of the critiques of TDS lefties are from the right. They literally keep attacking Trump for doing the few things I like him for.
 

Gordon Cole

Yep, he's dead
True & Honest Fan
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I've always been a pretty left-leaning dude, and I don't like Trump largely because he's a lousy president whom I disagree with purely on policy. However, I do see him as kind of a "reap what you sow" moment for the nuttier parts of the left, only instead of being a wake-up call, it seems to only reinforce said nuttiness and irrational, ignorant rage. Lord knows the amount of relatives I have who spend their every waking hour glued to CNN, while telling me their utterly deranged revenge fantasies without a shred of shame. And having one of those relatives compare you to a Nazi sympathizer when you mention that said obsession is grating and unhealthy is...well something else.

But at the same time, much of the God-Emperor right's unquestioning love of and mental gymnastics towards Trump is really not so different from the YAS KWEEN left's love of Hillary, and the autistic circlejerks about him (cough A&H cough) is just as stifling to real debate as the SJWs they claim to hate. And as for Russia, while it is pretty overblown, they don't seem to realize that most if not all modern presidents have done incredibly shady shit, and his responses to the many skeletons in his closet don't help either.

TL;DR: It's a pity they couldn't both lose.
 
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