Loot boxes discussion - Loot boxes are a good thing, now open up that wallet

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U

UE 558

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kiwifarms.net
It's a stupid argument. Publishers have had over a decade of sperging monetization and bringing the half-assed mentality of we'll finish the game later method into popularity. I personally see this as a step in the right direction, but these people are so deeply set in their ways that it could be a long time (if ever) before they try and fix the shit they started.

While Sterling is a cow all himself, I do agree with the notion that sacrificing integrity and development competency by trying to maintain and exceed unsustainable growth in terms of profit is what's killing the game industry all over again.
Again, I can live with minor cosmetics with little impact on the game like MHW’s armor skins or RE2’s costumes, hell, I even forgave the buyable orbs in DMC5 due to patch 1.00 (the one I can play straight out the box) and the subsequent patches being extremely balanced when it comes to in-game orb drops, but the DLC models of DICE games, COD games, and Rockstar’s online games (despite GTA5 and RDR2 having glorious story modes with no MTXs) are cancer
 

KingofNothing

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It's a stupid argument. Publishers have had over a decade of sperging monetization and bringing the half-assed mentality of we'll finish the game later method into popularity. I personally see this as a step in the right direction, but these people are so deeply set in their ways that it could be a long time (if ever) before they try and fix the shit they started.

While Sterling is a cow all himself, I do agree with the notion that sacrificing integrity and development competency by trying to maintain and exceed unsustainable growth in terms of profit is what's killing the game industry all over again.
They have only themselves to blame. The industry had years and several warnings to get their shit together and self-regulate lootboxes and microtransactions. But since they dragged their asses due to greed and laziness, they've forced governments to act and make them straighten out. Tough shit guys, you had the chance to get the governments off your back and still shake down whales, but ya blew it.
 

Zeke Von Genbu

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While I don't mind wanting to control underage gambling and combat the nonsense EA does, I also don't want the government to tell me I, as a grown adult, am not allowed to buy something because they want to protect the children or whatever. I am allowed to make bad financial decisions, people make them all the time, and I've been very much in control of my actions in all my gears of playing f2p gachas.

I personally don't mind f2p gachas lootboxes (as that is what they effectively are to most people) or gachas in general they're fairly good time wasters that can be fairly involved games in their own right if you don't mind the grind they typically have. Though even gachas have age restricted spending limits of I believe around 100 USD a month and if you actually ask customer service you can get your account locked from purchases behind a password that you would hypothetically give to someone you trust if you have no self control I've heard stories from gambling addicts who did this. Though those things I believe are somewhat related to Japanese gambling laws catching up to these games, alongside actually having to include pull rate statistics and not be actually lying about them. You know that thing that none of these AAA lootbox games actually do, because releasing pull rates would give people too much information.

Do I think EA ever did this or considered any of this, you know before they're about to get fucked? No, because games EA have their own markets the typically print money like insert sportsball game 20XX so they don't need to compete in the cutthroat gacha market where you at least have to pretend to give a fuck and attempt to make a good game within the medium you're in, before you eventually fuck it over like most gachas do eventually in my experiences.

Paying 60 dollars to basically play a f2p game afterwards is absolutely asinine, and it is always the most lazy bullshit f2p possible with the most hammer thrown powercreep possible. It's not even trying which is just sad, I've seen gachas with more care put into them then this trash, what an absolute farce this section of gaming has become. Fuck EA and fuck Overwatch for getting this trend really rolling.
 
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U

UE 558

Guest
kiwifarms.net
While I don't mind wanting to control underage gambling and combat the nonsense EA does, I also don't want the government to tell me I, as a grown adult, am not allowed to buy something because they want to protect the children or whatever. I am allowed to make bad financial decisions, people make them all the time, and I've been very much in control of my actions in all my gears of playing f2p gachas.

I personally don't mind f2p gachas lootboxes (as that is what they effectively are to most people) or gachas in general they're fairly good time wasters that can be fairly involved games in their own right if you don't mind the grind they typically have. Though even gachas have age restricted spending limits of I believe around 100 USD a month and if you actually ask customer service you can get your account locked from purchases behind a password that you would hypothetically give to someone you trust if you have no self control I've heard stories from gambling addicts who did this. Though those things I believe are somewhat related to Japanese gambling laws catching up to these games, alongside actually having to include pull rate statistics and not be actually lying about them. You know that thing that none of these AAA lootbox games actually do, because releasing pull rates would give people too much information.

Do I think EA ever did this or considered any of this, you know before they're about to get fucked? No, because games EA has have their own markets the typically print money like insert sportsball game 20XX so they don't need to compete in the cutthroat gacha market where you at least have to pretend to give a fuck and attempt to make a good game within the medium you're in, before you eventually fuck it over like most gachas do eventually in my experiences.

Paying 60 dollars to basically play a f2p game afterwards is absolutely asinine, and it is always the most lazy bullshit f2p possible with the most hammer thrown powercreep possible. It's not even trying which is just sad, I've seen gachas with more care put into them then this trash, what an absolute farce this section of gaming has become. Fuck EA and fuck Overwatch for getting this trend really rolling.
I think the real thing that they need to do is put warnings for things like lootboxes and heavy MTXs on the ESRB label, the main people they seem to worry about are kids who’d be dumb enough to buy $200 in Fortnite VBucks with dad’s credit card, not adults who understand how to earn cash in GTAO or MK11 without spending $100+ extra dollars
 

Zeke Von Genbu

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I think the real thing that they need to do is put warnings for things like lootboxes and heavy MTXs on the ESRB label, the main people they seem to worry about are kids who’d be dumb enough to buy $200 in Fortnite VBucks with dad’s credit card, not adults who understand how to earn cash in GTAO or MK11 without spending $100+ extra dollars

I think that is the real issue in all of this, is kids who don't know how credit cards work and parents who don't know the ins and outs of these possible money traps. I don't know if any such thing exists to realistically moderate a customer accordingly by age, I know in Japan gachas have to put spending limits if you're not an 18 or 21 I forget which, and they're hard capped and nonadjustable which is always funny when an adult accidently puts his date of birth in wrong.

If such a system could exist I'd like that so little Timmy doesn't buy anything with his mother's credit card. I think not getting kids who don't know any better into the complicated world of gambling addiction is a great idea, I just don't want it to also impact adults who really should not be involved in any of this beyond possibly seeking help if able.
 

Archeops

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I wonder if the ESRB is regretting making that trading card/TCG booster pack comparison now that the government is actually stepping in to regulate these unruly beasts.
I think that is the real issue in all of this, is kids who don't know how credit cards work and parents who don't know the ins and outs of these possible money traps. I don't know if any such thing exists to realistically moderate a customer accordingly by age, I know in Japan gachas have to put spending limits if you're not an 18 or 21 I forget which, and they're hard capped and nonadjustable which is always funny when an adult accidently puts his date of birth in wrong.

If such a system could exist I'd like that so little Timmy doesn't buy anything with his mother's credit card. I think not getting kids who don't know any better into the complicated world of gambling addiction is a great idea, I just don't want it to also impact adults who really should not be involved in any of this beyond possibly seeking help if able.
It's actually 20, any age below that has purchase caps and how much is actually capped varies from game to game.
What comes after will make loot boxes look good.
Ten bucks says that you'll now have to PAY for game updates along with other DLC content rather than getting 'em for free.
 

Dante Alighieri

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Ten bucks says that you'll now have to PAY for game updates along with other DLC content rather than getting 'em for free.
Instead of whales subsidizing everything they'll just charge up the ass for the base game, charge for DLC, charge for updates, etc. They'll find a way to make money and people will continue to get upset.
 

BeepMareep

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I see this as largely a good move, except I don't know what to think about TCGs. TCGs are inherently P2W with random cards in packs, even their physical counterparts. MTG: Arena and Elder Scrolls Legends have card crafting, but they'll have to make getting booster packs as in-game rewards only.
 

Done

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This article is retarded.

A far better argument against lootbox registration is the possibility of game prices being raised, the $60 price tag has been in place for decades now, and lootboxes/DLC/digital-only/alt game store exclusivity etc are all ideas that were generated to offset the steep increase in development costs vs stagnant retail prices.

Instead, this nigga focuses on how EA can afford licenses, when it's incredibly clear that what will happen is either a change in licensor or a reduction of licensing costs (because if lootboxes are banned, then NO ONE will be able to afford the current license rates).

Another thing is, kids are idiots, which means that the adults are the ones who have to tardwrangle their offspring into not buying that shiny player pack or whatever the fuck, legislation may indeed help, but it won't take the onus off the parents. Especially given that game companies will most definitely try to find ways past it.
 

Zeke Von Genbu

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This article is exceptional.

A far better argument against lootbox registration is the possibility of game prices being raised, the $60 price tag has been in place for decades now, and lootboxes/DLC/digital-only/alt game store exclusivity etc are all ideas that were generated to offset the steep increase in development costs vs stagnant retail prices.

Here's my question, how would the entire video game industry involved in lootboxes collectively raise prices to whatever number is deemed acceptable? The issue is they can't all just agree to do it, as that has legality issues where a bunch of market leaders are collectively trying to raise prices at the same time. This might imply collusion if it happens all at once which is something I doubt anyone wants to bite the bullet on nor do I think anyone wants to raise their hands to be the first to raise video game prices to 70, 80, whatever USD.

Though I don't know if anything really exists to explain how price sensitive the average console gaming customer of today is because everything has been so uniform for so long. If we had some data on that maybe we could conclude that this wouldn't be so bad, but I doubt anyone who has "enjoyed" 60 USD for the last decade will enjoy now paying 70 USD and progressively go up to 80 USD demanding on how much we want to account for inflation as 60 dollars isn't really what it used to be a decade ago even if we ignore the development cost increases. Especially if DLC still exists, which I doubt will go away unless we make that illegal too.

Also what about games that don't have lootboxes, if they're selling at 60 dollars why should the price go up? That is a question I'm sure someone will ask and it will make this price rise even more noticeable. Price competition is basically not a thing in video games, at least in the console space, and hasn't been since after the Wii Era where Wii games were all 50 USD. Console video games compete based on perceived quality and brand loyalty within the same console library, because price is basically an impossible field to compete on.
 

Diesel Boogaloo

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While I don't mind wanting to control underage gambling and combat the nonsense EA does, I also don't want the government to tell me I, as a grown adult, am not allowed to buy something because they want to protect the children or whatever. I am allowed to make bad financial decisions, people make them all the time, and I've been very much in control of my actions in all my gears of playing f2p gachas.
What if all lootbox games get this slapped on them and become illegal to sell to minors, just like booze and fags?
esrb_ao.png

I think the real thing that they need to do is put warnings for things like lootboxes and heavy MTXs on the ESRB label, the main people they seem to worry about are kids who’d be dumb enough to buy $200 in Fortnite VBucks with dad’s credit card, not adults who understand how to earn cash in GTAO or MK11 without spending $100+ extra dollars
Isn't it the case that Fornite doesn't have lootboxes? AFAIK you always purchase exactly what you want.
They do some timed offers to incentivize purchases using FOMO, but no lootboxes.

Anyway, the proposal includes both lootboxes and non-lootbox pay-to-win microtransactions. Cosmetics are explicitly excluded.

But the whole "minor-oriented" thing is the most blurry part. Is FIFA a minor-oriented game? Is Hearthstone?
Shit like that controvercial mobile Harry Potter stuff?
 
U

UE 558

Guest
kiwifarms.net
Isn't it the case that Fornite doesn't have lootboxes? AFAIK you always purchase exactly what you want.
They do some timed offers to incentivize purchases using FOMO, but no lootboxes.

Anyway, the proposal includes both lootboxes and non-lootbox pay-to-win microtransactions. Cosmetics are explicitly excluded.

But the whole "minor-oriented" thing is the most blurry part. Is FIFA a minor-oriented game? Is Hearthstone?
Shit like that controvercial mobile Harry Potter stuff?

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47028992


Yes and no on Fortnite
 

Zeke Von Genbu

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What if all lootbox games get this slapped on them and become illegal to sell to minors, just like booze and fags?
esrb_ao.png


Isn't it the case that Fornite doesn't have lootboxes? AFAIK you always purchase exactly what you want.
They do some timed offers to incentivize purchases using FOMO, but no lootboxes.

Anyway, the proposal includes both lootboxes and non-lootbox pay-to-win microtransactions. Cosmetics are explicitly excluded.

But the whole "minor-oriented" thing is the most blurry part. Is FIFA a minor-oriented game? Is Hearthstone?
Shit like that controvercial mobile Harry Potter stuff?

That is an interesting idea to "simply" make anything with lootboxes just automatically an adult game. Though gambling in the US is age 21 for Casino gambling I believe in most states, so that exact rating might not be correct, but it is an idea.
 

KingofNothing

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What if all lootbox games get this slapped on them and become illegal to sell to minors, just like booze and fags?
esrb_ao.png
I would expect companies to do absolutely anything they could to get that death sentence of a rating away from their games. So yeah, I like this idea, let them flip their shit.
 

Done

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Here's my question, how would the entire video game industry involved in lootboxes collectively raise prices to whatever number is deemed acceptable? The issue is they can't all just agree to do it, as that has legality issues where a bunch of market leaders are collectively trying to raise prices at the same time. This might imply collusion if it happens all at once which is something I doubt anyone wants to bite the bullet on nor do I think anyone wants to raise their hands to be the first to raise video game prices to 70, 80, whatever USD.
This is actually a really good question.

I expect that the pricing increase would be from the console makers' side, so in this case it would be Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft. I honestly don't know about the how of it tho.

Plus, lootboxes have pretty much gotten devs a nicer long tail in place, which is why I expect publishers to fight tooth and nail against their legislation.

Prepackaged DLC is probably safe.