Lord of the Rings TV Series in Development - How could this POSSIBLY go wrong...

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Shokaract

kiwifarms.net
Dark Elves are canon. They're uncivilized assholes who live in forests and caves, and they speak a debased, ugly form of Elvish that the High Elves can't even understand. They had the opportunity to go into the West where they would enjoy the tutelage of the gods, but chose to stay behind out of laziness or (for Elu Thingol) pussy. The very best of them, the Sindar, simply lived in a better cave than the others, protected by a minor deity who had inexplicably fallen in love with their king. Their improved material condition did not enhance their character, which remained no better than the wild elves of the woods. The Sindar got pissed off when the Noldor called them Dark Elves, so the Noldor agreed to call these semi-civilized cavedwellers Umanyar, "Not-of-Aman," to soothe their fragile egos. But in private, they continue to call them Dark Elves and laugh at them.

The sad part is the Noldorin exiles eventually adopted Umanyar culture. They all spoke Sindarin instead of Quenya, and many of them lived in trees and caves. The Noldor of Eregion developed an unhealthy love of jewelry or "bling" as they probably called it--which, to be fair, was nascent in their race even before they met the Sindar--and that led to all kinds of problems with Sauron. Even Galadriel, who was once an urbane conqueror, ended up the lady of a simple and rustic people, ruling over them from a treehouse. Through contact with the Sindar, the Noldor became a disgraceful, embarrassing people, and it's easy to see why many of them were not permitted to sail into the West. Imagine seeing your cousin for the first time in 4000 years and they show up covered in gaudy mithril, wearing magic rings that don't even work, speaking in some mush-mouthed dialect even the loremasters can't comprehend.
I know that dark elves are cannon, but i'm pretty sure dark elves weren't niggers. Weren't they more greyish in colour, or even kinda pasty because they didn't leave the heavily shaded forest, like the fag who wanted to kill his son or wife for leaving him.
 

PenguinSuitAlice

I'm a witch for Halloween.
kiwifarms.net
I know that dark elves are cannon, but i'm pretty sure dark elves weren't niggers. Weren't they more greyish in colour, or even kinda pasty because they didn't leave the heavily shaded forest, like the fag who wanted to kill his son or wife for leaving him.
The Avari are simply called 'dark' because they never came into contact with the two trees or attempted go west and are not considered Eldar. They looked like all the other elves, probably shorter and with darker hair, since blonde hair is a trait of the Vanyar, who went to Valinor in their entirety. Eöl, the 'dark elf' you are referring to, wasn't actually an Avar, he was a Sinda, or grey-elf, that was rather unusual in temperament for his kind, and was quite pale, it's true. I don't think any elves are grey-skinned, Sindar are called grey-elves because they aren't exactly dark elves but never saw the light of the two trees. They are made up of the Teleri that stayed behind in Beleriand to look for Thingol when he was enchanted, or liked the sea too much and didn't want to leave it.
EDIT: Technically the Sindar (and Nandor too) are Moriquendi, making them 'Elves of Darkness', but lumping them together with the Avari is like lumping together the Rohirrim with the Haradrim because they both aren't Edain.
Dark Elves are canon. They're uncivilized assholes who live in forests and caves, and they speak a debased, ugly form of Elvish that the High Elves can't even understand. They had the opportunity to go into the West where they would enjoy the tutelage of the gods, but chose to stay behind out of laziness or (for Elu Thingol) pussy. The very best of them, the Sindar, simply lived in a better cave than the others, protected by a minor deity who had inexplicably fallen in love with their king. Their improved material condition did not enhance their character, which remained no better than the wild elves of the woods. The Sindar got pissed off when the Noldor called them Dark Elves, so the Noldor agreed to call these semi-civilized cavedwellers Umanyar, "Not-of-Aman," to soothe their fragile egos. But in private, they continue to call them Dark Elves and laugh at them.

The sad part is the Noldorin exiles eventually adopted Umanyar culture. They all spoke Sindarin instead of Quenya, and many of them lived in trees and caves. The Noldor of Eregion developed an unhealthy love of jewelry or "bling" as they probably called it--which, to be fair, was nascent in their race even before they met the Sindar--and that led to all kinds of problems with Sauron. Even Galadriel, who was once an urbane conqueror, ended up the lady of a simple and rustic people, ruling over them from a treehouse. Through contact with the Sindar, the Noldor became a disgraceful, embarrassing people, and it's easy to see why many of them were not permitted to sail into the West. Imagine seeing your cousin for the first time in 4000 years and they show up covered in gaudy mithril, wearing magic rings that don't even work, speaking in some mush-mouthed dialect even the loremasters can't comprehend.
Are you going to ignore the fact that the Noldor Exiles were a bunch of idiots that killed their own kind unjustly multiple times and went on a war with Mega-Satan over jewelry that they could not win (and the Valar would have done for them and won easily, had they not been stupid and insulted them), which ultimately led the the death and suffering of the overwhelming majority of their people until they had to go begging back to the Valar to save their pathetic hides? They were already embarrassments to begin with. Especially Fëanor.
 
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Kane Lives

Peace through power
kiwifarms.net
Lord of the Rings Needs to Work For a 'Giant, Global Audience' Says Amazon Studios Chief
Does China even care about Lord of the Rings? Because we all know this is about China.
Why would China care about some white Catholic work when there's endless gold to mine from the Romance of the Three Kingdoms alone? (Which I might add modern Chinese filmmakers have steadily been improving on, to the point where they stage massive battles that I wished Hollywood emulated.)
 

RomanesEuntDomus

Kiwifarms hauseigener Quotennager
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
No matter what happens, IPs like LOTR will always survive. The only bad thing is that it might take some time until someone new touches it, so we have to wait until then to get something good once more...

It's just a shame, cause in the aftermath of GoT and its major failure to deliver a decent end, you'd think a show with similar production values covering LOTR would be a total no-brainer. You could put the entire story unabridged into an episodic format and it would be fucking amazing (in my naive little mind, I would hope for a version that stays closer to the books than Jackson, cause I really hate what he did with the second and third movie to a point that I can't even watch them anymore).

But nope. We'd rather get muslim lesbian Wokedalf, chinese Aragorn and the Blackobbits from Detroitshire, a red hat wearing Sauron with tiny hands and a peculiar knack for building walls, elves entirely portrayed by troons and whedonistic quippy dialogue than a decent LOTR show. At least this one is not covering the War of the Ring and can be ignored wholecloth if it turns out to be shit. I just hope it won't delay any future (good) LOTR media for too long.
 

Radola Gajda

Legionář, Lion of Siberia
kiwifarms.net
The Avari are simply called 'dark' because they never came into contact with the two trees or attempted go west and are not considered Eldar. They looked like all the other elves, probably shorter and with darker hair, since blonde hair is a trait of the Vanyar, who went to Valinor in their entirety. Eöl, the 'dark elf' you are referring to, wasn't actually an Avari, he was a Sinda, or grey-elf, that was rather unusual in temperament for his kind, and was quite pale, it's true. I don't think any elves are grey-skinned, Sindar are called grey-elves because they aren't exactly dark elves but never saw the light of the two trees. They are made up of the Teleri that stayed behind in Beleriand to look for Thingol when he was enchanted, or liked the sea too much and didn't want to leave it.

Are you going to ignore the fact that the Noldor Exiles were a bunch of idiots that killed their own kind unjustly multiple times and went on a war with Mega-Satan over jewelry that they could not win (and the Valar would have done for them and won easily, had they not been stupid and insulted them), which ultimately led the the death and suffering of the overwhelming majority of their people until they had to go begging back to the Valar to save their pathetic hides? They were already embarrassments to begin with. Especially Fëanor.
One thing to remember is that neither sun nor moon existed when first Elves wandered Middle Earth. So there was permanent darkness outside realm of Valar until much later when sun and moon were created.
So Calaquendi - Elves of the Light - High Elves are those who went to realm of Valar and lived in place where was light , while Moriquendi - Dark elves remained in Middle Earth in darkness.
 

Plank

kiwifarms.net
But nope. We'd rather get muslim lesbian Wokedalf, chinese Aragorn and the Blackobbits from Detroitshire, a red hat wearing Sauron with tiny hands and a peculiar knack for building walls, elves entirely portrayed by troons and whedonistic quippy dialogue than a decent LOTR show.
I have no response to that.

I remember years ago how this was the pinnacle of Tolkien/Hobbit/LotR cringe:
How quaint.
 

RomanesEuntDomus

Kiwifarms hauseigener Quotennager
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I have no response to that.

I remember years ago how this was the pinnacle of Tolkien/Hobbit/LotR cringe:
How quaint.
I really hate the elf-wanking scenes in Jackson's LOTR trilogy and the small deviations from the books over the movies add up to make me really dislike it to a point of not being able to watch them... and I expect to literally fall in love with them the moment this show rears its ugly head. Like what happened with the SW Prequels and the nuWars. Like what happened with ST ENT and nuTrek.
 

PenguinSuitAlice

I'm a witch for Halloween.
kiwifarms.net
But nope. We'd rather get muslim lesbian Wokedalf, chinese Aragorn and the Blackobbits from Detroitshire, a red hat wearing Sauron with tiny hands and a peculiar knack for building walls, elves entirely portrayed by troons and whedonistic quippy dialogue than a decent LOTR show. At least this one is not covering the War of the Ring and can be ignored wholecloth if it turns out to be shit. I just hope it won't delay any future (good) LOTR media for too long.
I'm certain they are going to portray the Númenoreans as a ham-fisted analogy for white supremacist colonizers and xenophobes. That's just obvious. If anyone is going to be a Trump stand-in, it will be Ar-Pharazôn, not Sauron.
 

RomanesEuntDomus

Kiwifarms hauseigener Quotennager
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I'm certain they are going to portray the Númenoreans as a ham-fisted analogy for white supremacist colonizers and xenophobes. That's just obvious. If anyone is going to be a Trump stand-in, it will be Ar-Pharazôn, not Sauron.
Well, see, in order to make the proper connections of who they are actually going to use as a poor standin for Trump or his red-cap wearing voters, I'd have to give enough of a shit about this show to bother to learn what its setting actually is...

So I went with the more simple solution and said that we're more likely to get a Trump-Sauron show than a decent one without poorly executed hamfisted political garbage in it.
 

PenguinSuitAlice

I'm a witch for Halloween.
kiwifarms.net
Well, see, in order to make the proper connections of who they are actually going to use as a poor standin for Trump or his red-cap wearing voters, I'd have to give enough of a shit about this show to bother to learn what its setting actually is...

So I went with the more simple solution and said that we're more likely to get a Trump-Sauron show than a decent one without poorly executed hamfisted political garbage in it.
The sad thing is that the Númenoreans were quite literally colonialists and imperialists. Their colonialism was beneficial, at first enlightening the other Men still in Middle-Earth with writing and technology. They probably protected them from domination by Sauron too. However, eventually as they grew more arrogant and hedonistic they started to demand tribute from them that they did not even need, becoming rulers rather than teachers and traders. It should also be noted that many Númenorean colonies were created by political refugees, too.

I'm curious how they are going to handle the fact that the colonizing Númenoreans were objectively superior to other Men in everything but their birth rate, and their biggest flaw was the fact that the majority of them were not content with the generous gift they were given and gained an unhealthy obsession with death, despite it being man's greatest gift from Eru himself.

One thing that would be interesting to do would be portraying the various Middle-Earth tribes they colonized in Harad and what would later become Gondor as a parallel to the Númenoreans themselves. They in part probably feared and hated the Númenoreans, believing that they weren't giving them all they could give, especially the secrets to their long lives, and would turn to Sauron/Annatar for them, perhaps accepting one or more of the 9 rings to do so in their rebellion against their colonial rulers, possibly led by another future Ringwraith (3/9 Nazgûl were Númenoreans ruling in Middle-Earth) in the end leading to both their peoples becoming slaves to Sauron, when they really should have worked together. It would have some nuance and be a classic Tolkienian story of the failings of men.
 
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Are you going to ignore the fact that the Noldor Exiles were a bunch of idiots that killed their own kind unjustly multiple times and went on a war with Mega-Satan over jewelry that they could not win (and the Valar would have done for them and won easily, had they not been stupid and insulted them), which ultimately led the the death and suffering of the overwhelming majority of their people until they had to go begging back to the Valar to save their pathetic hides?
Yes. Because fighting a hopeless war against overwhelming power to win back holy relics that are filled with the last traces of divine light is heroic. You have to appreciate heroism, even though heroes are imperfect and their cause may be hopeless; that's a fundamental part of Western mythology. (The Greeks were assholes and Achilles was one of the worst, but he gets top billing in the Iliad.) And you are generalizing from the Feanorians to all the Exiles, even the ones who took no part in the Kinslaying(s).

The Elves could have easily won the war against Morgoth if they were not stabbed in the back by their "allies" at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. Morgoth was weaker than Sauron by this point, and they were in his house, wrecking his stuff. He had committed his reserves to the battle and had nothing left. But traitorous men turned on the Elves, and the cowardly dwarves ran away because they didn't have an effective chain of command. To say nothing of the Elves who sat the battle out because, in their great wisdom, they decided it was better to have the incarnation of evil as a neighbor than resolve a property dispute with other Elves.

And the Exiles never begged for help from the Valar. That was their mulatto offspring Earendil, composed of such confused blood that not even the Valar could figure out what race he was.
 

PenguinSuitAlice

I'm a witch for Halloween.
kiwifarms.net
Yes. Because fighting a hopeless war against overwhelming power to win back holy relics that are filled with the last traces of divine light is heroic. You have to appreciate heroism, even though heroes are imperfect and their cause may be hopeless; that's a fundamental part of Western mythology. (The Greeks were assholes and Achilles was one of the worst, but he gets top billing in the Iliad.) And you are generalizing from the Feanorians to all the Exiles, even the ones who took no part in the Kinslaying(s).

The Elves could have easily won the war against Morgoth if they were not stabbed in the back by their "allies" at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. Morgoth was weaker than Sauron by this point, and they were in his house, wrecking his stuff. He had committed his reserves to the battle and had nothing left. But traitorous men turned on the Elves, and the cowardly dwarves ran away because they didn't have an effective chain of command. To say nothing of the Elves who sat the battle out because, in their great wisdom, they decided it was better to have the incarnation of evil as a neighbor than resolve a property dispute with other Elves.

And the Exiles never begged for help from the Valar. That was their mulatto offspring Earendil, composed of such confused blood that not even the Valar could figure out what race he was.
I'm not saying they weren't heroic or compelling. I'm saying they were ill-advised and reckless when there were significantly better options available than being cursed by the God of Death to die horribly for their mistakes. I also know that I heavily generalized them, for humorous effect mostly, because I thought you weren't being serious either. Also, if the Nirnaeth Arnoediad had actually gone as planned, they probably wouldn't have been able to defeat Morgoth anyway, at best they would have reestablished the Siege of Angband and extended the long defeat a few measly centuries, if infighting between the Eldar over the Noldorin High Kingship and Thingol's Silmaril didn't get them first.
Also, if you've forgotten, Turgon was desperately trying to find a way to contact the Valar long before grandson was born, since has was the few Noldorin leaders that realized that they were their only chance, which was one of the reasons Morgoth feared him so much.
 

PenguinSuitAlice

I'm a witch for Halloween.
kiwifarms.net
Jim weighs in.
Screenshot 2021-10-13 192505.png

My question is, why are Hobbit characters going to be in a story set in the 2nd age? They didn't exist back then or were very reclusive with small numbers. They didn't show up in any records until the Third Age.
I'm curious how they'll force them into the story. Unless Disclose.tv is in error, but at this point I wouldn't be surprised if the people making this have only skimmed through wikis about what happened in the Second Age.
Edit:
It's not in error:
“What’s notable about this run of the books, it’s a prequel to the age that we’ve seen in the films and books, It’s about the early days of the Shire and of Tolkien’s environment, so we’re an indigenous population of Harfoots, we’re hobbits but we’re called Harfoots. We’re multi-cultural, we’re a tribe not a race, so there are Black, Asian and brown, even Maori types within it. It’s a whole brand new set of adventures that seed some of the origins of different characters and it’s going to take at least 10 years to tell the story.”
Oh no.
For those who don't know: (From Concerning Hobbits)
Before the crossing of the mountains the Hobbits had already become divided into three somewhat different breeds: Harfoots, Stoors, and Fallohides. The Harfoots were browner of skin, smaller, and shorter, and they were beardless and bootless; their hands and feet were neat and nimble; and they preferred highlands and hillsides. The Stoors were broader, heavier in build; their feet and hands were larger, and they preferred flat lands and riversides. The Fallohides were fairer of skin and also of hair, and they were taller and slimmer than the others; they were lovers of trees and of woodlands.
The Harfoots had much to do with Dwarves in ancient times, and long lived in the foothills of the mountains. They moved westward early, and roamed over Eriador as far as Weathertop while the others were still in the Wilderland. They were the most normal and representative variety of Hobbit, and far the most numerous. They were the most inclined to settle in one place, and longest preserved their ancestral habit of living in tunnels and holes.
The Stoors lingered long by the banks of the Great River Anduin, and were less shy of Men. They came west after the Harfoots and followed the course of the Loudwater southwards; and there many of them long dwelt between Tharbad and the borders of Dunland before they moved north again.
The Fallohides, the least numerous, were a northerly branch. They were more friendly with Elves than the other Hobbits were, and had more skill in language and song than in handicrafts; and of old they preferred hunting to tilling. They crossed the mountains north of Rivendell and came down the River Hoarwell. In Eriador they soon mingled with the other kinds that had preceded them, but being somewhat bolder and more adventurous, they were often found as leaders or chieftains among clans of Harfoots or Stoors. Even in Bilbo's time the strong Fallohidish strain could still be noted among the greater families, such as the Tooks and the Masters of Buckland.
They are not tribes. They are more like breeds that had general cultural trends. Hobbits when they lived in Wilderland were probably in groups of tightly-knit clans like the one Gollum used to live in. Hobbits are clannish, not tribalistic.
 
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