Lord of the Rings TV Series in Development - How could this POSSIBLY go wrong...

mindlessobserver

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It's also been confirmed to have sex scenes, by the way. I get the feeling it will be half generic fantasy party and half GoT-ripoff. Or one or the other. All with checking off several diversity boxes, of course.
I should also post this, which was in the article as well.
This more then anything else underscores they just do not understand the material. GoT could have gratuitous amounts of sex because it was Low Fantasy and more importantly Martin deliberately set out to do the inverse of Lord of the Rings SPECIFICALLY, because there is no sex in Lord of the Rings.

And the reason WHY there is no sex in the Lord of the Rings (setting aside Tolkein being a devout catholic) is because it's High Fantasy. It's meant to touch on divine themes and motifs. The aspect of the spiritual and not the physical. The very first story arc of the Silmarillion encapsulated this idea. When the Ainur descended to Arda and became the Valar, beings with a physical presence rather then just spiritual, they were Diminished, and Eru Illuvatar commanded them to remain in their weakened state and bound to the physical realm until the time of the world's ending. Sex is a base and earthly thing. It's inclusion would diminish the themes of the story.

If this sounds a bit like a religious text, that is because it IS. You cannot turn Lord of the Rings into game of thrones anymore then you can turn the Bible into it. Sure you could write a treatment of the Bible full of gratuitous blood, rape and mayhem. It's in there, and it's also in the Silmarillion in an implied way. But it's not the focus. And any time it comes up it usually just involves the bad guys.

I really have no hope for this thing, and have about as much desire watching it for some sort of artistic enjoyment or entertainment as I do reading the complete works of Marquise de Sade for advice on healthy relationships.
 

Kyria the Great

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Seeing all this this hub bub about this 90% most likely shitty tv series of what is arguably Tolkien's best work makes me glad that Hollywood hasn't ever gotten their grimy fingers on Elric of Melnibone. A series that heavily inspired what shape Chaos took in Warhammer Fantasy and 40k.
 

mindlessobserver

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Seeing all this this hub bub about this 90% most likely shitty tv series of what is arguably Tolkien's best work makes me glad that Hollywood hasn't ever gotten their grimy fingers on Elric of Melnibone. A series that heavily inspired what shape Chaos took in Warhammer Fantasy and 40k.
Give them time. These people are literally Melkor. They can't create anything. They can only subvert or twist things other, better things have created.
 

Art Kassul

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Seeing all this this hub bub about this 90% most likely shitty tv series of what is arguably Tolkien's best work makes me glad that Hollywood hasn't ever gotten their grimy fingers on Elric of Melnibone. A series that heavily inspired what shape Chaos took in Warhammer Fantasy and 40k.
Moorcock is apparently consonant with modern liberal insanity, so if adapted they might treat the material with some respect. It'll still be garbage, but at least they won't have ultra-bestial gorilla-faced negros wiping their asses on his name, like they did with Lovecraft Country.

In a writer like Lovecraft a terror of sex often combines (or is confused for) a terror of the masses, the 'ugly' crowd. But this is so common to so much 'horror' fiction that it's hardly worth discussing. Lovecraft is morbid. His work equates to that negative romanticism found in much Nazi art. He was a confused anti-Semite and misanthrope, a promoter of anti-rationalist ideas about racial 'instinct' which have much in common with Mein Kampf. A dedicated supporter of 'Aryanism', a hater of women, he wound up marrying a Jewess (which might or might not have been a sign of hope -- we haven't her view of the matter)Lovecraft appeals to us primarily when we are ourselves feeling morbid. Apart from his offensively awful writing and a resultant inability to describe his horrors (leaving us to do the work -- the secret of his success -- we're all better writers than he is!) he is rarely as frightening, by implication, as most of the other highly popular writers whose concerns are not with 'meeping Things' but with idealised versions of society. It's not such a big step, for instance from Farnham's Freehold to Hitler's Lebensraum.


Moorcock also engages in political activism. In order to "marginalize stuff that works to objectify women and suggests women enjoy being beaten",
lol

Michael Moorcock: “I think Tolkien was a crypto-fascist”​

Michael Moorcock revolutionised science fiction with symbolism, sex and psychoactive drugs.
“I think he’s a crypto-fascist,” says Moorcock, laughing. “In Tolkien, everyone’s in their place and happy to be there. We go there and back, to where we started. There’s no escape, nothing will ever change and nobody will ever break out of this well-ordered world.”
I suppose LOTR's unity of righteous neighbors against an overarching, seemingly insurmountable evil does look a lot like fascism. Moorcock seems like he would side with Sauron just to stick to the uppity beautiful elves. Goddamn elves and their stupid pretty happy magical forest, not even a diversity, always looking down on the Maori elves! I HOPE THEY ROT! YOU GET EM SAURON!

“I mean, Notting Hill had been a place of horror and violence in the 1960s and 1970s. My mother daren’t visit us. Next door was always knife fights and the police. But it was cheap and that’s what you need as a writer with a young family. Now look at it. It’s people in jodhpurs.”
The Eternal Leftist

Yeah, his work will get a shining, glowing, respectful treatment if adapted. He's is leftist perfection.

although Moorcock is half Jewish
whoomp there it is.jpg
Never mind, not leftist perfection, just garden variety jew. For sure his work would be treated with the utmost respect, absolutely never besmirched in even a minor way. His work is safe.
 
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draggs

Kyle Avgvstvs, Antifvs Maximvs. AVE KYLE
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Its noted in the books, hobbit feet have more hair.

Anyways, I'm not surprised. The show is going to suck regardless. I doubt it will actually have anything to do with the Second age of Tolkien's writings, and be some sort of generic off shelf fantasy with the LOTR brand.
Yes but Tolkien doesn't bring it up again every 30 pages the way Jackson has at least one glamour shot of hairy ass hobbit feet every half hour
 

FaramirG

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We wuz elves n sheet.

I'm so tired honestly. LotR is the whitest goddamn thing ever. It's fantasy Britain and its long sprawling mythos as written by Tolkien to mimic other fantastical European epics because, aside from King Arthur? Britian didn't have any like France or Germany or Scandinavia.

There is nothing wrong with it being white. And staying as it was. From my experience as someone who is half black? Black people don't give a SHIT about Lord of the Fucking Rings. They're basically pandering to other white people and not 'people of colour' cuz I can guarantee just like most of this fantasy and science fiction shit (see: demographics of GoT, Star Trek, SW fans, I.E, white people) having a black person in it isn't going to make them watch it because they simply don't give a shit about nerd crap. Why not pick a fantasy/Sci fi series to make a show on by a black writer? Why choose the whitest goddamn thing and shoehorn shit that was never intended?

At this point it boils down to these fart huffer showrunners wanna pat themselves on the back for doing literally nothing and ironically still promoting white culture instead of actually looking into black writers and adapting their works for shows.
Also half black, and I had the same experience. My dad who is otherwise a really intelligent and well-read black man, almost to a fault (the kind of pretentious ass who has Marcus Aurelius, Cicero, and Plato on his bookshelves) gives 0 fucks about LOTR, and it was a chore to even get him to sit down and watch the movies with me. I've practically given up on getting him to ever read the books. I don't understand why it's such a turnoff for him though.
 
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Also half black, and I had the same experience. My dad who is otherwise a really intelligent and well-read black man, almost to a fault (the kind of pretentious ass who has Marcus Aurelius, Cicero, and Plato on his bookshelves) gives 0 fucks about LOTR, and it was a chore to even get him to sit down and watch the movies with me. I've practically given up on getting him to ever read the books. I don't understand why it's such a turnoff for him though.
Well, is real read in this case more like “literature”? Because I think pretentious people would think of it as not being real literature since it’s genre, even though it’s the high literature of its genre.
 

Tasty Tatty

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Game of Thrones and its consequences have been a disaster for television.

I also seem to recall the women in the movies being just fine being strong in their own without all this “diversity” crap.
What makes Eowyn special is that she's unique. If there are a bunch of women warriors, then she's just one more of the bunch.
 

Shamash

lawgiver, judge of gods and men, lord of the sun
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Eowyn isn’t a woman warrior, and her character arc ends with her getting over her problems and settling down and marrying.

Anyways, I’m not seeing much media chatter about this, just a few announcements.


It’s pretty damn telling they barely mention Tolkien in this. They refer to Jackson’s movies . They know good and well this is contrary to Tolkien’s work-they’d love to just say “Tolkien was a racist meanie and we’re going to trash it because fuck him” but they can’t because that would undermine the marketing by stating the truth.
 

RomanesEuntDomus

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Jim weighs in.
View attachment 2623067
My question is, why are Hobbit characters going to be in a story set in the 2nd age? They didn't exist back then or were very reclusive with small numbers. They didn't show up in any records until the Third Age.
I'm curious how they'll force them into the story. Unless Disclose.tv is in error, but at this point I wouldn't be surprised if the people making this have only skimmed through wikis about what happened in the Second Age.
Edit:
It's not in error:

Oh no.
For those who don't know: (From Concerning Hobbits)

They are not tribes. They are more like breeds that had general cultural trends. Hobbits when they lived in Wilderland were probably in groups of tightly-knit clans like the one Gollum used to live in. Hobbits are clannish, not tribalistic.
All this needs is black muslim troon Gandalf and my expectations will be met. This is a trashfire on a scale hard to imagine it's not an april fools prank. :story:
I really wonder how much benzene someone has to huff to read this kind of shit and get hyped for the show lmao.

Yet another classic of my childhood destroyed. Makes one want to just get rid of all the TVs in their house.
I know where you're coming from, but don't be silly. This show can't take away the joy of re-reading the books or re-watching the movies. It can't make you accept this shit as canon and waste your time with enduring their shitty show. See it as a means to compare the unique mastery of JRR Tolkien and... these shitheads rubbing their feces over their faces and making ape noises. Nothing they can do will tarnish what Tolkien has made. Nothing they do can force you to accept it as foundation for LOTR. See it for what it is: trust-fund kids flopping around with hack journos sucking their dicks out of habit. Laugh at the idiocy. Laugh at whoever's fucking stupid enough to watch it and laugh at those dumb enough to actually enjoy it.

Good lord. I thought the movies had strong female characters is it because they weren't cunts like Captain Marvel?
My thoughts exactly.
A strong character, male or female, used to be someone that got shit done, who was confident, strong willed and determined.
The people writing sTrOnG characters don't understand that since they don't know what a strong character is. The writers are insecure about themselves, have no confidence and are weak in every meaning of the word, thus they don't understand what being "strong" actually means. They think that in order to be a strong character, said character needs to be a toxic shithead towards everyone else. It's like a Dunning Kruger effect, only not in terms of skills or knowledge, but rather in terms of personality and character.

It's not enough to be confident or determined (these sTrOnG characters seldom are, they're usually just smug assholes), you need to tell others to fuck off constantly and end up being praised for being toxic. You know, like Captain Marvel and all these other atrocious sTrOnG female characters we've seen in the past decade. Agreeing with someone is weak, doing your own thing against whatever other people tell you -consequences be damned!- is sTrOnG. And of course, the plot and setting will always bend over backwards to prove these sTrOnG characters right, so they can be extra smug about it. Just check out Batwoman, it's surreal.

Maori hobbits! I can't stop laughing. This is going to be terrible.
This is easily the most hilarious aspect in this whole shitshow.

Consider the following:

The people celebrating Maori hobbits are the same that would throw a temper tantrum when they see a white kid wearing a Moana costume for reducing the Maori culture to a mere costume. They'll start a shitstorm to make the kid out to be Megahitler for wearing a costume and froth at the mouth at the audacity of this SHITLORD KID LITERALLY SHAKING OMG...
And then you have this shit that'll make them seal-clap in approval of Maori Hobbits like the good little tools that they are.

Maori. Hobbits.

Just let that sink in for a moment and think about.
What could be more reductive, more tone-deaf, more ignorant of an entire culture than to treat it like a meaningless, interchangeable label, that disregards all aspects of said culture and reduces it back to -you've guessed it- a mere costume devoid of any history, identity or influence outside of being a literal "hat" to signify otherification of a person.

Yeah I don't understand the whole "there's no strong women in Lord of the Rings" thing. Like many woke things they ignore stuff like that to pretend their garbage is special in some why.
See above, if Eowyn doesn't tell Aragorn to fuck off, best him in a duel and smugly outsmarts him, she's not sTrOnG.

and be some sort of generic off shelf fantasy with the LOTR brand.
Oh please, this desecration on one of modern literature's greatest achievements wishes it could work its way up into "generic off the shelf fantasy" territory. It's way worse than that.
It's uninspired propaganda using worn out tropes stealing ideas to peddle an ideology in the most blatant manner and there is not just not a single good idea in this project, it actively goes out of its way to be as vapid, offensive and poorly conceived as possible.

Generic fantasy would be a possé of generic but likeable heroes going on a generic but enjoyable quest to defeat a generic but menacing bad guy.
This show, however, is going to be so much worse, since it'll be toxic assholes wandering a culture-war wasteland of a setting, pontificating endlessly at the viewer, beating them over the head with meaningless MUH DIVERSITY messages, fighting a political strawman - hell, I am almost willing to bet that they'll shove in some completely anachronistic FUCK DRUMPF shit in there out of habit, as if Trump was still relevant.

I don't understand why it's such a turnoff for him though.
Cause there's no black heroes to identify with DUH.
---this is what Hollywood actually believes---
 

The Great Chandler

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Wasn't Tolkien rather progressive, even for a Victorian born aristocrat for his time?

In 1938, sometime after publishing The Hobbit, German publishers from Nazi Berlin requested if he was Aryan descent. He sent an angry letter back, going out his way to say "whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people." The German publishers responded by burning copies of The Hobbit. Ironically, Tolkien is of strong German descent.

During WW2, Tolkien wrote to his son Christopher who was serving in South Africa in the RAF, which he stated: "The treatment of colour nearly always horrifies anyone going out from Britain, & not only in South Africa."

Yeah, some old racist white guy alright!
 

Shamash

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Tolkien’s politics were odd. He didn’t support British imperialism but he also was in favor of local aristocracies and hierarchy. He said “ Touching your cap to the squire may be damn bad for the squire but it’s damn good for you"”

Unless I’m misreading it, he seems to be saying showing social deference to one’s class superiors is a good thing.

He was fond of some woman author who had homosexuality in her books, but he also was a devout Catholic who was infuriated by Vatican II.

The best way I’d describe him is English localist-he didn’t support the idea of “Britain” but he also wasn’t in favor of mass democratic society.

“My political opinions lean more and more to Anarchy (philosophically understood, meaning abolition of control not whiskered men with bombs) - or to 'unconstitutional' Monarchy. I would arrest anybody who uses the word State (in any sense other than the inanimate realm of England and it's inhabitants, a thing that has neither power, rights nor mind); and after a chance of recantations, execute them if they remained obstinate! If we could get back to personal names, it would do a lot of good. Government is an abstract noun meaning the art and process of governing and it should be an offence to written it with a capital G or so as to refer to people.”

Take that as you will.
 

PenguinSuitAlice

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Wasn't Tolkien rather progressive, even for a Victorian born aristocrat for his time?

In 1938, sometime after publishing The Hobbit, German publishers from Nazi Berlin requested if he was Aryan descent. He sent an angry letter back, going out his way to say "whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people." The German publishers responded by burning copies of The Hobbit. Ironically, Tolkien is of strong German descent.

During WW2, Tolkien wrote to his son Christopher who was serving in South Africa in the RAF, which he stated: "The treatment of colour nearly always horrifies anyone going out from Britain, & not only in South Africa."

Yeah, some old racist white guy alright!
If they knew about that, they'd just use it as justification for their decisions, saying it 'proves' that Tolkien would approve of it.
 

Shamash

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Tolkien died in the seventies. As stated, he wasn’t a conventional Tory, but he wasn’t a leftist either.

It is telling though they refer more to Jackson’s “vision” as opposed to Tolkien. It makes me think that the show will mostly initiate the Jackson movies in aesthetic and atmosphere, as opposed to acknowledging
Tolkien himself beyond the barest minimum.
 

PenguinSuitAlice

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During WW2, Tolkien wrote to his son Christopher who was serving in South Africa in the RAF, which he stated: "The treatment of colour nearly always horrifies anyone going out from Britain, & not only in South Africa."

Yeah, some old racist white guy alright!
As has been stated before, the events of the second age have somewhat anti-colonialist messages, though it seems to be more pro-"white mans burden" colonialism to enlighten the ignorant and anti-colonialist for the sake of extracting wealth. I'm not sure if this reflects Tolkien's views on the matter, though. I am fairly certain that Númenor (sans the Elf-Friends of course) will be the villains of this, not Sauron or the orcs because I bet these people think orcs=black people.
 

PenguinSuitAlice

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The late stage numenorians were imperialists and this is depicted as a bad thing, the early stage numenorians are also imperialistic but more benovolent.

I seriously doubt the Amazon show will actually address that aspect of the second age.
Many of the colonies in the late stage were also made by Elf-friends fleeing persecution by the King's Men, too. They might just overlook that, though.
 

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