Lord of the Rings TV Series in Development - How could this POSSIBLY go wrong...

RomanesEuntDomus

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Well, we're getting that anyway, only shoved in our faces a lot more.
Yeah, but at least it's limited to one such atrocity and it comes with a huge pricetag, so with a bit of luck, it'll be a blunder for Amazon.
If they could use the IP for free, cutting even would be significantly more easy.
 

Godzilla@1989

Your move, Chief.
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I’m not educated enough on the rights shitshow but shouldn’t this be on HBO Max? I thought Warner owns the rights to the films.
 

Screamer

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I’m not educated enough on the rights shitshow but shouldn’t this be on HBO Max? I thought Warner owns the rights to the films.

Firstly, this is a TV show and so a different set of rights to a movie.

The rights of making a movie have probably returned to the Tolkien estate. The studio that bought the rights to make the movie, owns the movie and would have an ongoing payments to the Tolkien estate based on the continued revenue from the films.

HBO may just be licensing the movies to air on their platform. Not in Biden land, don't know what it is on.

Amazon bought the rights to make a TV series based solely on the three original LOTR novels. They don't own the rights to the Silmarillion and other Tolkien material that dictates the period of Tolkien's work where the series is set. They also don't have the rights to anything done from the Peter Jackson films.

I assume their rights give them access to the same material and artwork the Peter Jackson films had, they can't actually base anything of the Jackson film's versions. It's completely separate and not set in the same version of LOTR. It's a new adaptation.

Yes, this will be a shit show.
 

Godzilla@1989

Your move, Chief.
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Firstly, this is a TV show and so a different set of rights to a movie.

The rights of making a movie have probably returned to the Tolkien estate. The studio that bought the rights to make the movie, owns the movie and would have an ongoing payments to the Tolkien estate based on the continued revenue from the films.

HBO may just be licensing the movies to air on their platform. Not in Biden land, don't know what it is on.

Amazon bought the rights to make a TV series based solely on the three original LOTR novels. They don't own the rights to the Silmarillion and other Tolkien material that dictates the period of Tolkien's work where the series is set. They also don't have the rights to anything done from the Peter Jackson films.

I assume their rights give them access to the same material and artwork the Peter Jackson films had, they can't actually base anything of the Jackson film's versions. It's completely separate and not set in the same version of LOTR. It's a new adaptation.

Yes, this will be a shit show.
The Jackson trilogy is on HBO Max. Not sure about the Hobbit trilogy

By the way, however flawed the Hobbit trilogy is, it’ll be viewed as as masterpiece compared to Amazon’s diaper fest.
 

Newman's Lovechild

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By the way, however flawed the Hobbit trilogy is, it’ll be viewed as as masterpiece compared to Amazon’s diaper fest.

That's how it starts, the Overton window shift of films and TV. In a few years people will praise the Hobbit films because of 'worldbuilding' and 'the acting in this particular scene is not complete shit', and lay all the blame for its flaws at the feet of [popular internet critics who pointed out its flaws].
 

TheHarbinger

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That's how it starts, the Overton window shift of films and TV. In a few years people will praise the Hobbit films because of 'worldbuilding' and 'the acting in this particular scene is not complete shit', and lay all the blame for its flaws at the feet of [popular internet critics who pointed out its flaws].
Yes this happened with every major franchise basically. Star Wars has it to the most extreme where people are foaming at the mouth regarding the 'genius' of the prequels to the point where an entire media company arouse out of literally counterpointing prequel apologists (RedLetterMedia). Most likely if someone were to try to make a 'Plinkett' style review of The Hobbit it would be copyright struck into oblivion. Some of the newer major licensed shows, Star Trek, Halo, Witcher, have had the copyright interns basically try to wipe any negative review or criticism off of the internet. Between attacking criticism and then the constant astroturfing, paid reviews, bots, and schilling. They are already planting the seeds for unyielding positivity surrounding new LOTR content.

We are starting to see this with the Alien and Predator franchises as well. Where people are revisiting the older films and heaping praise onto them as if they are cinematic masterpieces and not soulless cash grabs. And I can even see this with South Park currently where any episode that is not complete and utter shit is mindlessly consumed by the fans as being a 'return to form'. You have companies now producing their own shows, licensed or 'original' properties, then producing the official aftershow or podcast for each episode to control word of mouth as much as possible. So you watch a show, then watch a handpicked cast of fag e-celebrities to discuss the episode you just watched and talk about how great it is. And some 'unofficial' podcasts are obviously stealth produced by the same company who made the show or movie being discussed (which is also another thing RLM went after with the Nerd Crew).

So most likely you are right, in a decade the Hobbit films will have their army of retarded drones talking up the films at Star Wars Prequels levels. Where people will unironically praise the fart humor and childish writing and odd romances and book changes like they are earth shattering artistic decisions. "It was brave to include niggers in Lake Town" and so on. And the already dated special effects and GoPro camera sequences will be fawned over and analyzed like crime scene evidence.

But the real truth is that the LOTR movies are pure shit compared to the books. And the astroturfing and endless praise already started with this franchise with those movies. "Removing the Scouring of the Shire was the right choice".
 

RomanesEuntDomus

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As someone with newfound respect for the SW prequels, I can say that I find the idea ludicrous to pretend the prequels aren't hot garbage.

But after having seen the utter shitshow of the sequels, I do respect the prequels for a few things. Namely they did try to create something new, they had a vision and having characters from the OT wasn't just a 'MEMBER STAR WARS?! nostalgia bait, it genuinely tried to establish their origin stories - poorly told as it might have been. The prequels were really bad and had a meandering plot, but for fuck's sake, there was at least a non-cynic passion for it to expand the setting. The sequels are such cynic, nasty, hate-filled cashgrabs, they do make the prequels look better by comparison, but that still doesn't make the prequels any good. I now at least can respect what Lucas was going for with them, but he still failed.

There's a moron in the SW thread who fights tooth and nail declaring that the PT is superior to the OT, which is just complete retardation. Dude came up with a headcanon to explain away and dismiss all the many, many, many flaws of the movies, all the shortcomings, all the poorly written dialogue and the wooden acting, and so on. Needless to say, his headcanon is doing 90% of the lifting to explain why the prequels aren't trash and said headcanon runs against some of the actual setting and it relies on complete fabrications regarding the contents of dialogues or character intentions. And it of course ignores the main issue: The movies just aren't fun.
That's what you get when you ask a fanboy of a third-rate author such as Karen Traviss his opinion, I guess.

Now LOTR will get the GoT treatment, only much less inspired. Whether people will look back on Hobbit to say "Yeah, those were the good old times" remains to be seen, but I would not be surprised. I mean, there's people who genuinely remember the prequels with fond memories, if only cause those are the first SW movies they ever watched. It might be the same with the Hobbit, people saw them in theatres and will have fond memories.
This new show might also achieve this... really makes me wonder, is there any franchise that isn't getting worse over time?
 

PenguinSuitAlice

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Anyone got any news, I can't stomach to check anymore.
https://www.empireonline.com/tv/new...wer-isnt-middle-earth-you-remember-exclusive/
“This isn’t the Middle-earth you remember,” Howe tells Empire in the Summer Preview issue. “This is a world that’s very vibrant. The elves are not hidden away in Mirkwood or lingering in Rivendell. They’re busy constructing kingdoms. The dwarven kingdom of Moria is not an abandoned mine and the Grey Havens is not yet an abandoned city. I loved having the opportunity to explore that unseen history.” And while most of the Middle-earth we’ve seen on screen has involved mountainous, muddy, or marshy terrains, there’s a key new location to be explored this time. “We’re finally sailing on the oceans of Middle-earth,” teases Howe, promising a set of sea-faring elves. “They’re daunting and enterprising and are almost colonising the world. They were a lot of fun to imagine. It’s something neither Lord Of The Rings nor Hobbit movies went anywhere near.” Set course for new adventures.
Howe can’t elaborate on what that tale may be, but does hint that it takes place against a backdrop of “Sauron’s rise to power, the forging of the Rings of Power and the epic tale of [human city] Númenor” — all events with important repercussions for Middle-earth.

“I was convinced the Hobbit trilogy would be the last we’d see of Middle-earth on film,” Howe admits, explaining that it took an exciting new approach to Lord Of The Rings lore to unlock a story worth telling.
So more non-news elaborating on lore we all already know. I doubt anything of value will be given to us until the next trailer or something.
 

Newman's Lovechild

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It looks like a primer for normies who are allergic to paper, or cinema nerds who think aspect ratio makes or breaks a story.

And while most of the Middle-earth we’ve seen on screen has involved mountainous, muddy, or marshy terrains, there’s a key new location to be explored this time. “We’re finally sailing on the oceans of Middle-earth,” teases Howe, promising a set of sea-faring elves.

Oh boy, this new show is going to show us... water!

Lol, sounds like Games Workshop hyping up a new faction.

akhelian-allopex.jpg

[human city] Númenor

Screenshot_20220524-121531_DuckDuckGo.jpg

OW OW OW OW
 

PenguinSuitAlice

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It looks like a primer for normies who are allergic to paper, or cinema nerds who think aspect ratio makes or breaks a story.



Oh boy, this new show is going to show us... water!

Lol, sounds like Games Workshop hyping up a new faction.

View attachment 3314186



View attachment 3314228

OW OW OW OW
I really hope that was journalistic ignorance on the part of saying that Númenor is a city instead of an powerful island kingdom that colonized Middle-Earth. Even the idiots making this wouldn't make that blunder. I assume the Sea-Elves are the Teleri of both Tol Eressëa (who traded with Númenor pre-xenophobia) and the Grey Havens in Lindon. They aren't something the writers pulled out of nowhere.
 

Newman's Lovechild

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I assume the Sea-Elves are the Teleri of both Tol Eressëa (who traded with Númenor pre-xenophobia) and the Grey Havens in Lindon. They aren't something the writers pulled out of nowhere.

Of course. It's just the mild absurdity that the mention of sea elves, even in passing, is going to be a memberberry or nerd reference that even scratches the surface of all the bad publicity and ill will Amazon have built up.
 

PenguinSuitAlice

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Of course. It's just the mild absurdity that the mention of sea elves, even in passing, is going to be a memberberry or nerd reference that even scratches the surface of all the bad publicity and ill will Amazon have built up.
The fact that they don't have the rights to the Silmarillion, though it may prove to be a blessing, really hurts their chances to actually flesh out a decent story, considering the best account of the fall of Númenor as well as the backstory of its founding is in the Silmarillion or in its paired works. How will they explain what Melkor or the Valar/Maiar are without the material found in the Silmarillion? Or the sundering and general history of the Elves or even what Aman is? All of the characters carried over from the First Age like Celebrimbor, Galadriel, Círdan, Gil-Galad, Sauron, Elrond and Celeborn will have their backstories rendered almost nonexistent despite all of them being very important figures in this story.
This is a world that’s very vibrant. The elves are not hidden away in Mirkwood or lingering in Rivendell. They’re busy constructing kingdoms. The dwarven kingdom of Moria is not an abandoned mine and the Grey Havens is not yet an abandoned city. I loved having the opportunity to explore that unseen history.
I understand the fact that they decided to compress the Second age so that the making of the Rings of Power/Scourging of Eregion and the fall of Númenor happened close together from a story point of view, since in the actual lore they happened centuries apart. It makes sense from a storytelling perspective. But this quote seems to say the opposite. This implies it is set in the beginning of the Second Age instead of at its end. Also, the Grey Havens aren't abandoned at the time of LotR and won't be until the last ship sails West and Círdan the Shipwright's duties are done. And they were hidden away in Mirkwood (which was still Greenwood the Great) at this time under Legolas' grandfather Oropher. But I bet they don't have the rights to Oropher because he's in the Unfinished Tales. Khazad-dûm has been inhabited by Dwarves since before the First Age, so it's far from a developing kingdom, and it wasn't an "abandoned mine" in the time of LotR anyway since it was infested by Orcs. I can't tell if this quote is dumbing things down for general audience, reveals actual lack of knowledge when it comes to lore, or reveals immense changes to canon due to the fact they have huge swathes of it closed off to them. It might be all three.
And I'm not even getting into the fact that they decided to have Hobbits in this story.
 
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Shamash

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So is Sauron in this and is he a giant eyeball?
No, in fact there was some gay “super fan” video (composed of people who clearly didn’t know anything) where some fag talked about Sauron being hot.

As bad as that was-Sauron is supposed to be a beautiful angelic being in this.

I hope to God they get the part about “beguiling Angel” and not “pretty boy that gives gays boners”.
 

PenguinSuitAlice

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So is Sauron in this and is he a giant eyeball?
He should be, but not as a giant Eyeball, but in his fair humanoid form called "Annatar" meaning giver of gifts, which he uses to trick the elf-smiths into making magic rings before murdering all of them. He also turns the Númenoreans into a Satanic death-cult that basically tries to invade heaven, which ends with that form being destroyed when God sinks Númenor underwater with him on it.
 

PenguinSuitAlice

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No, in fact there was some gay “super fan” video (composed of people who clearly didn’t know anything) where some fag talked about Sauron being hot.

As bad as that was-Sauron is supposed to be a beautiful angelic being in this.

I hope to God they get the part about “beguiling Angel” and not “pretty boy that gives gays boners”.
I've noticed there's this weird tumblr-esque subset of the fandom that's full of fujoshis and the like when looking for images related to characters from the Silmarillion. Here's a few I found in a cursory image search of Silmarillion characters. It's a rabbit hole.
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I have no idea where this comes from. But there is a lot of it. I blame icky nerdy girls entering the nerdy boys club.
There is a cancer growing in the Tolkien fandom that may overcome it if left unchecked. That I am sure.

EDIT: Sorry for doubleposting. But I've wanted to bring this up but couldn't find an opportunity.
 

PenguinSuitAlice

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RomanesEuntDomus

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